Pilgrims of Sabbocracy:
A Black Sabbath Mailing List - Issue #1243
Friday January 26, 2007
Please send list submissions to list@black-sabbath.com.
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This Issue's Lyric:
"In the misty morning, on the edge of time
We've lost the rising sun, a final sign
As the misty morning rolls away to die
Reaching for the stars, we blind the sky"
(Children of the Sea - Heaven & Hell 1980)
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Today's Topics:
Quick Note
Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242
Dio, Schmio, let's here the Martin era!!
RE: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242 - Ozzy's opinion of "Born Again"
Heaven and Hell Ultimate Setlist & Possible Live CD or DVD?
Re: Dio, Schmio, let's here the Martin era!!
Assorted rantings
Revision: Heaven & Hell/revised ultimate wishlist set list for the 2007 tour!?
Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242
H&H and the Future
heaven and hell and a bitch
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Subject: Quick Note
From: Joe Siegler <siegler@black-sabbath.com>
Date: 26 Jan 2007
Just a quick note to let you know that there's a problem with the forum
software in regards to how I post the backissues of the newsletter. As
such, I can't post any - once it's fixed, I'll catch up with the archives.
Joe
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Subject: Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242
From: Eric Goldberg <egoldberg@hubgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:12:29 -0500
I have 2 tickets to Radio City Music Hall! I have requested the day off
from work, and my buddy will join me for the show and put me up for the
night.
I'm still not sure I believe this is happening.
I just checked and there are no more presale tix available for NYC, but
there are tix available for all of the Canadian shows.
It's odd, but tickets go on sale for the public tomorrow, and there has
been nothing on TV or radio, and nothing on VH1 Classic, who are all over
classic hard rock and metal. Once again, Sabbath is left behind
proportionally speaking.
Eric Goldberg
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From: "Phil Starr" <pstarr@core.com>
Subject: Dio, Schmio, let's here the Martin era!!
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:29:48 -0500
Hi folks,
While I'm a fan of Sabbath through all their eras, in my opinion the Tony
Martin era was the greatest. Maybe not the most popular, but the greatest
musically. How can you top "Devil and Daughter", "Black Moon Rising",
"Valhalla", "Anno Mundi", "The Eternal Idol", "The Shining", "Nightwing", I
could go on and on. Don't bother to respond because you would only be
wasting your breath. You can't top these and others of the Martin era.
While Dio is a great vocalist (he used to be my favorite, along with Mr.'s
Coverdale and Hughes), he can't match Martin on tunes like those mentioned.
I'll still go see Tony Iommi and his crankin' SG's, though. Maybe I'll top
20 Sabbath shows in my life. I'm up to around 15.
Philip W. Starr
Groveport, Ohio
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From: "Randy Miller" <rcm66@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242 - Ozzy's opinion of "Born Again"
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:03:45 -0500
First of all, Joe, whatever they call it, be it "Heaven and Hell", "Earth",
whatever, this is BLACK SABBATH as I remember it and I will make every
effort to see it. I became a fan in 1981, when I was 15 years old and got
"Heaven and Hell" in trade with a friend of mine (I think for a Kiss album,
but I'm not sure). I LOVED it, and then "Mob Rules" came out, and I loved
that. I was gutted when Dio and Appice left/were pushed over "Live
Evil"...I was one of the few people in my area who loved that album...even
though some jerk in the record store said "THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING THOSE
SONGS! THOSE ARE OZZY'S SONGS!" Yeah, right. Ya sure, ya betcha. Then I
started going backward and getting the Ozzy albums and thought, "these are
good songs, but that VOICE..." OK, I know it's a matter of preference, but
I think every singer Tony Iommi has brought aboard since Ozzy has been
worlds better than Ozzy - and that includes Glenn Hughes during the
"Seventh Star" era (which I nearly saw, had Glenn not got "junk" up his
nose). I loved seeing the reunited Dio-era band in 1992 (Chicago) and the
"Cross Purposes" lineup in early '94 (Kalamazoo, Michigan).
Tony, Ronnie, Geezer, Vinny...keep it real, lads! You don't need to do
"Iron Man", et al. You have got enough killer material from "Heaven and
Hell', "Mob Rules", "Dehumanizer" and whatever stuff RJD and TI have come
up with (for the record, it's a RIP-OFF that the "Dio Years" isn't a full
"Black Box" type set with all the Dio albums, including "Live Evil",
remastered and a disc of new songs). I'd rather hear you do old Rainbow
("Stargazer"!) and Dio solo ("Strange Highways"!) than the old Ozzy stuff.
Regarding Ozzy's comments on the Ian Gillan/"Born Again" lineup...I do
remember reading in "Circus" magazine in the fall of '83 in a story called
"Is Black Sabbath turning Purple?" where Ozz said "'Born Again' is the best
thing I've heard from Sabbath since the original lineup broke up,'" but he
then made a crack about Bev Bevan ("It's like me replacing Jeff Lynne in
ELO"). Personally, I don't know why so many have criticised the mix of
"Born Again"...it's dark, heavy and creepy - as Sabbath should be!
However, I do have a bootleg cassette from that tour, and Gillan (whom I
like very much as a vocalist) was just not right onstage. He forgot most
of the words to the Ozzy-era songs and just screamed his way through them;
they did a small bit of "Heaven and Hell" and the rest was mostly Tony
soloing. "Smoke On The Water" was a nice bit though...
Cheers!
Randy in Jerkwater, Indiana
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:22:41 -0600
From: "Tyler Herring" <vegetaman@gmail.com>
Subject: Heaven and Hell Ultimate Setlist & Possible Live CD or DVD?
I do indeed like the list submitted for mailing #1242... But I thought I'd
give my own personal list:
Too Late
Neon Knights
Computer God
Mob Rules
*NEW SONG*
Children of the Sea
Time Machine
Country Girl
*NEW SONG*
Die Young
Letters From Earth
*NEW SONG*
Heaven and Hell
I
Turn Up The Night
After All (The Dead)
Encore:
Time Machine
In closing, I also want to ask if anybody knows if there are any plans for
Heaven and Hell to record any of these shows for a possible Live CD or DVD
release in the near future?
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From: "Joe Siegler" <siegler@black-sabbath.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:54:27 -0600
Subject: Re: Dio, Schmio, let's here the Martin era!!
> Hi folks,
> While I'm a fan of Sabbath through all their eras, in my opinion the Tony Martin era was the greatest. Maybe not the most popular, but the greatest musically. How can you top "Devil and Daughter", "Black Moon Rising", "Valhalla", "Anno Mundi", "The Eternal Idol", "The Shining", "Nightwing", I could go on and on. Don't bother to respond because you would only be wasting your breath. You can't top these and others of the Martin era. While Dio is a great vocalist (he used to be my favorite, along with Mr.'s Coverdale and Hughes), he can't match Martin on tunes like those mentioned. I'll still go see Tony Iommi and his crankin' SG's, though. Maybe I'll top 20 Sabbath shows in my life. I'm up to around 15.
> Philip W. Starr
> Groveport, Ohio
Personally, the Martin era is my favorite as well. But I do recongize the
greatness that is the rest of the band's history, too.
--
Joe Siegler (siegler@black-sabbath.com)
Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
http://www.black-sabbath.com============================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:04:35 +1100
From: "White, John" <John.White@canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Assorted rantings
From: Eric Goldberg <egoldberg@hubgroup.com>
>The first question is, "Will my wife leave me if I get a ticket for NY?"
>If the answer is, "Yes," the next question is, "Should I get the ticket
>anyway?"
Eric you can get another wife - you will most likely never have a chance at
another Sabbath :-)
From: "Brandon White" <triviumfan08@hotmail.com>
>alright man i suport you in the whole living sabbath cuz i love sabbath
>but there is no other sabbath when ozzy left of was fired - blah, blah...
This removes all doubts I ever had about evolution. Do you live on
Galapagos by any chance Brandon?
Re the tour dates - those of us that live in remoter parts of the world can
only hope that all the tour dates are announced before the conclusion of
the Canadian/US/Europe legs so we will be in a position to know whether or
not we need to make the trek to lands afar.
============================================================================
From: jamx67@comcast.net
Subject: Revision: Heaven & Hell/revised ultimate wishlist set list for the 2007 tour!?
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:35:46 +0000
Hello H. & H. nation,
Hope this entire scenario ends up as big as the latest hype! Here is a
revised H. & H. set list for 2007 tour/ultimate wishlist (Supposed 2 hr.
set?)
E5150 (Intro.) / Mob Rules
Turn Up The Night
Computer God
New Track...
Children Of The Sea
Lady Evil
Letters From Earth
Voodoo
Walk Away
New Track...
After All (The Dead)(Full Song incl. Drum Solo @ end)
Lonely Is The Word
Wishing Well
Time Machine
Too Late/Guitar Solo(same as Dehumanizer Tour w./the early riff + of Thorns
oriented Jam, but no Sab. riffs!)
Sign Of The Southern Cross
Sins Of The Father
" I "
Keon Knights
Encore:
New Track
Falling Off The Edge Of The World
Heaven & Hell (just like 1980 album including ending reprise!)
This would be really nice to see/may be too long? Someone else send their
Dio years setlist/ALL RIGHT! Take care!!
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From: "Tom Hatheway" <tomhatheway@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1242
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:42:58 -0800
>i just wanted to say that i was at the very last show Dio and Iommi ever
>played together at oakland ca nov 1992 dehumanizer tour.
I was at this show too...
TomH
SanJoseCA
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From: "Mark Cloer" <kiss_rocks@hotmail.com>
Subject: H&H and the Future
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:20:51 +0000
Well, like everybody else I'm rejoicing about Heaven & Hell. I never
thought we'd see this or any other incarnation of "Sabbath" again. It's
obvious that Iommi & Butler have gotten fed up with their lack of activity
and finally decided to do something about it. It's good to know that they
realize the post-Ozzy stuff is still in demand and deserves to be heard
again. Which brings up another possibility for the future. Dio has said
that this will likely only be a one-off tour and no new album will likely
follow. Well, I hope this goes over so well that they fell obligated to go
back into the studio because you just know that Iommi has thousands of
riffs in his head just dying to be released. Let's hope this goes beyond
just one tour. However, if they don't do anything past this tour, maybe,
just maybe Iommi might feel more nostalgia and patch things up with Tony
Martin for a tour. Martin has said in the past that he had no issues with
Iommi personally and could see himself working with him again, just not
under the Black Sabbath banner. Don't know if he still feels that way or
not. I'm sure Murray and Rondinelli could be coaxed back. They could bill
themselves as "Forbidden Idol", "Headless Idol", "Eternal Cross" or
something like that. Humm, think about the possibilities. Ok, I doubt it
will ever happen but a year ago NOBODY thought a Dio reunion would happen
either. Anyway, I can dream. In the meantime, I look forward to Heaven &
Hell conquering the world. I only pray that they come close enough to S.C.
for me to see them. If nothing else, hopefully they'll put out a DVD.
============================================================================
From: jeranic@comcast.net
Subject: heaven and hell and a bitch
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:25:47 +0000
I'm quite excited about the upcoming tour and will definately be there when
it rolls into Boston. I was born in 1970 and was fortunate enough to have
older brothers who listened to Sabbath while I was quite young. I enjoyed
it immensely as it scared the crap out of me (think the ending of "Children
of the Grave") but I didn't know who the members were. By 1982 I was
listening to The J. Geils Band, Van Halen and whatever else was popular
when I was in sixth grade. One of my brothers had "Blizzard of Oz" and he
played "Crazy Train" over and over, day after day and I hated it. One day
I snapped and kicked in his bedroom door. But it all changed while playing
street hockey in my driveway and I heard "Flying High Again" on the radio.
I stopped what I was doing, listened, and asked who it was. My
aforementioned brother told me it was Ozzy and I felt really stupid because
I absolutely loved it. It was then that I began to spin "Crazy Train" over
and over. I was obsessed! The be st present I got for Christmas '82 was
the "Speak of the Devil" cassette and listening to it was like finding a
treasure chest. This was the guy that sang all of those songs I loved so
much when I was a little kid. I had made the connection and began saving
my paper route money which I spent at Lechmere snapping up Volume 4,
Sabotage, etc.... Another cassette I picked up was Dio's Last in Line,
which I loved, but I couldn't accept him as the singer of Black Sabbath and
I also rejected my friends playing of Born Again. I was firmly ensconched
into Sabbath with Ozzy. It wasn't until 1992 that I began to listen to
Dio-era Sabbath and while I loved it I still longed for a Sabbath/Ozzy
reunion that was more than just a one-off reunion like Live Aid. The
Dehumanizer CD blew me away when it came out and I went and saw my first
Sabbath show at the Orpheum in Boston. Great show, but I wasn't dazzled
with the way Dio sang the Ozzy-era stuff which I never liked on Live Evil
anyways. J ust two different vocal styles. In '94 I braved a blizzard and
went to see the Cross Purposes tour and was totally disappointed. Sorry
Joe and all of you guys who love the Martin-era Sabbath but it just doesn't
do it for me. I have given it a listen but it's just not to my liking.
But I won't knock it. My patience paid off and I have seen every
Sabbath/Ozzy show since. And I have also "discovered" that "Born Again" is
awesome.
Now to my Bitch. Black Sabbath with Ozzy and Black Sabbath with Dio are
two totally different entities. Think Rainbow with Dio and Rainbow with
Joe Lynn Turner or Van Halen with DLR or Van Halen with Sammy. Nothing
Alike! All I ever read on this list is people whining about Ozzy. Get
over it! Black Sabbath with Ozzy Osbourne singing was ground-breaking and
shaped the landscape of hard rock as we know it. It is the original
incarnation and should be respected for its contributions. It is that
line-up that is honored. Instead of slogging it constantly respect it for
what it was even if you don't like it. Black Sabbath with Dio is
phenomenal but it is a totally different sound and feel. Just because you
prefer the New Wave of British Heavy Metal aspect of that line-up doesn't
mean you have to constantly slam the previous line-up and act like it's not
the "real" Sabbath. Why don't you just come up with a new name like 'Black
Embryonic Sabbath' or 'Black First Quarter Sabba th' or 'The Band That
Would Become The Black Sabbath That I Really Like.'
I fully agree with decision to call this latest beast "Heaven and Hell" I
think it is a great name for a band. I don't want to hear any songs that
Dio didn't sing on. I think that the name Black Sabbath should be put to
rest. I think it is going to be a great show and I can't wait to see it.
I don't want to see a new Sabbath album with Ozzy on vocals and for that
matter anyone else on vocals. If the two songs on the Reunion CD are any
indication of what it would sound like I would be thoroughly disappointed.
I don't want to hear Ozzy singing on any Sabbath material that has strayed
away from the blues-based formula that was used from 1968-1978. Let the
memories and accomplishments lie where they are. They toured together, I
saw it, and I am satisfied. While Black Sabbath from 1968-1983,1992 is my
favorite band of all time I find myself getting pissed off everytime I read
this list that comes from the best website available that deals with my
favorite band.
peace
Jeremy
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NOTES:
1) To contribute to the next issue, please send email to:
list@black-sabbath.com. If you send in a submission that goes
anywhere else besides this, it likely will not get used. Also,
make sure list submssions aren't CC'ed or BCC'ed. Those tend to
get deleted by by spam interceptor software. Make sure a list
submission is *TO* list@black-sabbath.com.
2) DO NOT SEND HTML MAIL TO THE LIST - it is likely to be deleted.
The reason is that I don't have the time to process most HTML mail,
as it comes through to me in a jumbled mess. Send me ASCII (aka
"regular") mail, PLEASE!!
3) Back issues of the newsletter are available in the "Newsletter Archives"
section of our online forums which are available here:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/forums4) Special Delivery Notes:
a) Juno users: I know that your system has a 64k limit on messages.
I will try not to go over that limit with messages.
b) AOL users: Depending on how large a sablist msg is, your system
is going to download the first 2k of this email and then stop.
Download the file to your system and then open it using any word
processor.
5) We have our own forums - you can visit those here:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/forums6) Black Sabbath Web pages of note:
* Joe Siegler's Black Sabbath WWW page is at:
http://www.black-sabbath.com * Alexander Rack's Black Sabbath Fan Club Deutschland Info page is
at:
http://www.black-sabbath.de7) Official Sab Band Member Sites:
http://www.heavenandhelllive.com (The 2007 Tour Page)
http://www.billward.com (Bill Ward)
http://www.cozypowell.com (Cozy Powell)
http://www.iommi.com (Tony Iommi)
http://www.tonymartin.net (Tony Martin)
http://www.ozzy.com (Ozzy Osbourne)
http://www.geezerbutler.com (Geezer Butler)
http://www.ronniejamesdio.com (Ronnie James Dio)
http://www.gillan.com (Ian Gillan)
http://www.vinnyappice.com (Vinny Appice)
http://www.bobdaisley.com (Bob Daisley)
http://www.eric-singer.com (Eric Singer)
http://www.jezzwoodroffe.com (Jezz Woodroffe)
http://www.glennhughes.com (Glenn Hughes)
http://www.donairey.com (Don Airey)
8) For further information, contact Joe Siegler at:
siegler@black-sabbath.com.
*****
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***** John 3:16
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