Pilgrims of Sabbocracy:
A Black Sabbath Mailing List - Issue #1260
Monday February 4, 2008
Please send list submissions to list@black-sabbath.com.
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This Issue's Lyric:
"I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down now you can't retrieve."
(After Forever - Master of Reality 1971)
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Today's Topics:
Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1259
TECHNICAL ECSTACY
Heaven And Hell is not Black Sabbath!!!
Don't Limit yourself to ozzy
Eternal Idol & Other Thoughts...
Mailing list fan.
Hand of Doom LP Box Set???
Nativity in Black - Black Sabbath Tribute
Dehumanizer and forgotten Sabbath Tracks
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:22:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Paulie <wouldwebealive@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pilgrims of Sabbocracy #1259
>NOTE: Only two submissions since last week's newsletter. That's a low
>point for my tenure as list holder. I take responsibility for that letting
>it slide for several months at a time, but the list goes out to about
>3,500 people - I can't imagine nobody has anything to say about Sabbath in
>a week.
Hi Joe! No biggie, people are just out of the swing of it.
Glad I
could be one of the two, and hey, here I am again!
All the best,
PAULIE
[ Ed Note: Well, as I said, I take the blame for not sending out the issue
for so long, but I'm hopeful things will pick up again. ]
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From: "Jerry Garrison" <hd68flh@earthlink.net>
Subject: TECHNICAL ECSTACY
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:27:51 -0700
I still feel this is one of their finest albums. The riffs in You Won't
Change Me have to be among Tony's greatest. Gypsy, She's Gone (incredible
acoustic work), & Dirty Women are also huge on the Rock Scale. Sabotage I
rank as another great one as well, but "Black Sabbath" still remains my
favorite song. First song on the first record-weird.
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From: MARKTICER@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:32:08 EST
Subject: Heaven And Hell is not Black Sabbath!!!
Hello Joe,
I would like to share a belief that's been hanging from the cobwebs of my
mind for nearly a year but it's now ready to explode. We DID NOT witness
Black Sabbath last year; what we saw was a BRAND NEW BAND called Heaven
And Hell. Yes, legions of web sites were announcing that 'Black Sabbath'
was touring in 2007 and even a web site called black-sabbath.com declared
that the new line-up of 'Black Sabbath' consisted of
Dio/Iommi/Butler/Appice/Warren but I think we're missing the point of the
band calling themselves Heaven And Hell. It goes deeper than the
"confusion" explanation Tony gave us concerning the induction of Black
Sabbath into the Rock&Roll Hall of Fame.
I remember reading a Dio interview back in the 1980's after he left Black
Sabbath the first time. Dio shared his discomfort singing Ozzy era
Sabbath songs and to the best of my memory I quote him saying, "I would
have thrown up if I had to sing Iron Man one more time." Now, Dio must
certainly be very comfortable in Heaven And Hell where he sings Dio era
Sabbath songs only. In addition, Dio will never again have to live in the
shadow of Ozzy. In Heaven And Hell, Dio finally weighs in as an equal
member with Tony and Geezer.
When the incredible new album is released at the end of the year, I think
we all will understand once and for all that it's not Black Sabbath; it's
Heaven And Hell!
SINcerely, Mark
[ Ed Note: Spoken like a true Ozzy era only fan.
Just kidding. Don't
forget, even Ronnie has said in interviews about the name, we could call
ourselves whatever, and people will see it for what IT REALLY IS, that
being Black Sabbath. Still, I wouldn't get too hung up on the name.
It's really not that big of a deal. ]
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Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:07:49 -0500
From: theultimatesteve <theultimatesteve@gmail.com>
Subject: Don't Limit yourself to ozzy
I was born in 1970 so I can't bullshit ya and say I was hanging out with
Ozzy in high school.
I however can tell you that after Ozzy's departure ,Sabbath was no longer a
group ....it became an Organization
An organization with many different vocalists and musicians with the
anchor which is Iommie as well did Deep Purple witch seemed to intertwine
with sabbath in the 80's & 90's and in order to understand that well you'd
have to be a fan and know the extensive history of Deep purple /Rainbow
(Lol well you'd think this was the Deep purple fan site the way I've been
going on but I'll get back to Sabbath)
No I do remember the late 70's early 80's when Hippies were all depressed
that "Black Sabbath broke up Man!!!" But you can't have growth without
change and thats a well known fact of life and that brings me to this What
tears it for me are people who are the odd song fan and militantly stand
there and preach on their soap box "Black sabbath isn't Sabbath without
Ozzy" they'll say and to me it is sheer ignorance Ozzy would never would
have discovered Randy Roads and put out blizzard of Ozz & Diary of a Madman
Now me I'm a huge fan of Ronnie James Dio ,Ian Gillan,Glen Hughes,And as
far as I know Tony Martin Has mad More albums/cds then anyone else
Well I'll wrap this up quickly Don't limit your self to just Ozzy!!!
,because there are to many variations, Fusions & spin offs that you need to
hear that will give you the full enormity and influence that is the
greatest in the world today even though they're called Heaven & Hell Shit
even Paul Stanley & Gene Simmons put out a record with a new band name
(carnival of souls - the final sessions) and even if Gene argues "thats not
a KISS album" the fans consider it anyway
Maybe in time everybody will open up their vaults cause there are so many
demos like star of India and other singers that the majority don't even
know about !!! o well I hope I live long enough because the "SEED" which
Black Sabbath has planted will be around for a very long time.
By Warmonger
CARNIVAL OF SOULSand lol go figurer Deep Purple is still touring without
Richie Blackmore
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Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:47:02 -0500
From: bobbycheetah <bobbycheetah@fuse.net>
Subject: Eternal Idol & Other Thoughts...
After reading the list before last (that sounded funny) about the Eternal
Idol reviews, I decided to give her a listen. It had been a little while.
It still sounds "fresh" to me. It's one of my favorite non-Ozzy albums. I
say albums because I originally purchased it as such when it was released
in 1987. At that time, I had no idea about Tony re-recording Ray Gillen's
vocals. When Headless Cross followed, I remember thinking that Tony
Martin's style reminded me of a cross between Don Dokken & Ronnie James
Dio. Call me crazy, but that's what I thought. EI still does something
too me, it just has an attitude about it that gets my blood going and
sometimes goose-bumps. I really love HC, and Tyr (was TYR supposed to be a
"concept" album?) as well.
Dehumanizer has some moments, but overall, I don't listen to it much. Then,
upon Tony Martin's return, things went slightly downhill for me. I'm not
knocking them, but something just seemed too "cookie-cutter" to me. I
still own the recordings, and once in a great while will give them a
listen, and I react the same way and put them away for a while.
For the next project from (Heaven & Hell). I hope it's a good one. I've
written before that I'm not a big fan of the new tracks they recorded.
That's because to me, it sounds like they are trying TOO hard to be
"dark/doomy/heavy/evil/etc". I'm not saying that they should come up with
some "pop" music - hey, maybe they could collaborate with Justin
Timberlake? JUST KIDDING!! I guess the best way to describe it is this:
The Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules albums took me for a ride - a complete
journey. Dehumanizer didn't do that for me. I'm just hoping they can come
up with something that will take us all for that "ride" again. Anyway...
that's my humble opinion. Thanks Joe for letting me contribute a "bit of
fluff" to your mailing list. Maybe this will help stir things up a little
in a positive way and not "this sucks, that sucks, you suck, etc."
I
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Subject: Mailing list fan.
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:41:45 +1100
From: "Davies, Mark" <mdavies@kcc.com>
Hi. I love reading your mailing list. I thought you may like a couple of
pics from the recent Heaven and Hell Sydney show and my latest ink.
What a great night, only surpassed by Ozzy in 1998.
The only disappointment was they didn't stop to sign autographs
afterwards.
Keep up the good work.
Regards,
Mark Davies
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From: "Marc Clark" <mcclark4@charter.net>
Subject: Hand of Doom LP Box Set???
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:54:33 -0500
Anybody out there able to give me any info on the "Hand of Doom" 4LP box
set?
I was at a local store here in Georgia, getting a turntable fixed. I had
some time to kill, and walked into a little antique store. Just screwing
around, and found a stack of albums...and the box set was one of them. (I
also was able to find/get a near mint Quiet Riot II Japan LP featuring
Randy Rhodes) I picked them both up!!!!
What is the story on this box set? Worth anything?
Thanks!
Marc
Atlanta, GA
[ Ed Note: Never heard of it. Sounds like some record company only
package. To be honest, unless it includes demos and whatnot, I can't see
the need to buy any more packages of the Ozzy Era besides Black Box. ]
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Subject: Nativity in Black - Black Sabbath Tribute
From: Eric Goldberg <egoldberg@hubgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:13:17 -0500
One of the reasons I've never bought Nativity in Black until now is that I
was afraid that most of it would sound so similar all the way through with
unnecessarily heavy versions that lost the subtlety of the original songs,
instead making them stereotypical, cliche, or caricatures of the originals.
I don't necessarily mind the shouting vocals, but after a while, they are
all the same. If you always sing with that tone, there is no room for
dynamics or changes in emotion.
I tend to dislike "tribute" discs in general, unless they have a
particularly interesting angle, and this one never made me want to buy it
in the past. For example, I do enjoy Black and Bluegrass by Iron Horse
(the Ozzy/Sabbath tribute in a bluegrass style) and Sabbatum by Rondellus
(a medieval treatment with period instruments and chanted vocal with the
lyrics translated into Latin), but these give such completely different
treatments to the songs, that they are new and fun, at least for a listen
or two.
However, since I've recently been listening to Corrosion of Conformity
again, I recalled that they did Lord of this World on Nativity in Black,
and I thought I would finally get it and give the entire disc a listen.
Following is my review of the songs:
Biohazard's version of After Forever takes one of my favorite Sabbath
songs and completely stiffens the original, loose groove and changes the
song's plaintive vocals to shouts. Not to mention that the opening riff
is not exactly right, but at least that part of the song has the right
feel. I don't mind this style of music, but that's not why I listen to
Sabbath. Sabbath are about groove, feel, emotion, and attitude. This
version is very heavy on attitude, so if you like that, you might like
this version of the song. I would have liked it better if it weren't a
cover, but a new, original song.
Rob Zombie's Children of the Grave is perfect for him since he has
already used the main riff in a few of his songs. His voice is strong,
and he stays true to the original, with the exception of these yells of
"yeah" that make we want to get up and sheer! The solo is fairly true
to Tony's original, at least to a point. There are a few interesting
rid-bits here like the introduction and doubling the punches of the
turnaround. (You'll know what I mean when you listen to the song.) The
drummer also does tom work that is very reminiscent of Bills timpani
work on the original. It also has some other typically Zombie-esque
touches like over-dubs of news stories and laughter.
Megadeth's Paranoid also adds little new, but it is quick and has a lot
of energy. There's nothing wrong with this version, but it is a little
flat for me. I like Mustaine, but I've never been thrilled with a
voice. I find it one-dimensional, this song is no exception. The solos
keep the feel of the original by being doubled, but they are played with
a speed and intensity that made me laugh out loud with a big and
enthusiastic, "Wooo-hooo!" The song ends a little strangely, too, as
the drums keep going.
I've heard Supernaut by 1,000 Homo DJ's a few times; in fact, Ministry
played it live at one of the Lollapalooza shows years ago. I like this
odd, quirky, and heavy version of another of my favorite Sabbath tunes.
It's got a lot of Ministry in it, if you know what I mean: screaming,
effected vocals; heavy, techno-sounding drums, layered guitars; and a
long instrumental break with heavy bass and odd vocals that may have
been sampled from an actual rocket-launch or may just sound that
way...it works for me, despite some questionable lyrics.
The version of Iron Man by Therapy? with Ozzy adds little to the song.
The most intersting parts are the instrumental breaks between verses and
the drums. If you are going to re-do this ubiquitous classic, be bold
enough to change it. I know I should cut Ozzy some slack on one level,
but on another level, since he has done this song the same way a
million times, he should do something new.
Lord of this World by COC was slower at parts (like the introductory
riff), which served to make the song a little heavier. Pepper Keenan
has an odd treatment to his vocals, but they kept that killer groove in
tact. The drums could have been a little heavier for me, but they keep
the swing and groove of the original and help make this song is still a
highlight of the disc. The end of the song, holds a bit of a surprise
which I will not ruin for those who have not yet heard it..
Symptom of the Universe by Sepultura, like Biohazards's After Forever,
epitomizes the reason I didn't want this disc: Over-the-top vocals,
without depth, texture, or subtlety. They took a heavy song, and made
it completely bombastic and nearly unlistenable. I may need to break out
Sabotage just to fall in love with this song again. That said, This
drummer is pretty damn good. More questionable lyrics. The
instrumental section that ends of the heavy part of the song actually
has a nice shift to it. Much to my surprise and they actually play the
closing acoustic part of the song, and very adeptly, I might add. Even
with the heavy drums, this was an interesting and enjoyable part of the
song. The only issue with it was that it as strictly instrumental: I
would have liked to hear their singer tackle it and show a little depth.
The Wizard is by a one-off band called Bullring Brummies with Geezer
Butler, Bill Ward, and Rob Halford along with guitarists from Obsessed
and Fight. (I've heard and seen Fight, but I have never listened to
Obsessed.) Halford sounds better hear than he did with Sabbath either in
Costa Mesa or in Camden, but this is a studio track with heavily treated
vocals. This was a slow and heavy version of the song, with a new riff
under the harmonica solo. It loses the subtlety of Bill's original
drumming, but it's hard to no give him the creative license to change it
now, especially after I blasted Ozzy (above) for not changing enough.
Regardless, this is another highlight of the disc for me. I can only
imagine how enthusiastically I would have reacted to this song had I
heard it when it first came out in 1994.
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath by Godspeed is tighter than the original. Bruce
Dickinson does a nice job as guest appearance as vocalist. The quieter
parts of the song ("Nobody will ever let you know....") were played with
the distortion still up on the guitars, and with a strange and moody
vibe. I thought that was an interesting choice that still allowed for
the song to drop a level, but in a different way. The heaviest part of
the song ("Where can you run to..?") is played with dampened guitar
strings, which tends to hold back the intensity rather than increase it.
I was surprised by this choice, but it still works beneath the air-raid
siren vocals of Bruce Dickinson. This is another bright spot in the
disc for me, partially because of those bits of creativity and
Dickinson's voice.
Ugly Kid Joe's version of NIB is OK, but it doesn't do much for me,
especially with another classic like this, but at least they let the
song keep it's original dynamics and the groove in the mellower sections
of the song ("Your love for me...."). The bass player also does a nice
job keeping Geezer's parts strong. The solos also have a very nice
crescendo and worked well for me. I also like how they ended the song.
Faith No More plays War Pigs in a lower key than Sabbath do, and the
introduction was particularly slow and heavy. The bass player, while
playing the right notes, didn't seem to capture Geezer's feel on this
one. Again I would say that he is stiffer than Geezer. Maybe he was
going for a tougher feel, but it doesn't work for me. The mid-section
is faster, so the tempo was all over the place. Mike Patton, who
doesn't thrill me in general on this one due to his eccentric style,
forgot some of the lyrics which at first I thought was unforgivable, but
then I recalled how many times Ozzy forgot lyrics, and it suddenly
seemed right. That said, at least he was willing to make the song his
own and take it someplace new. Despite one glaring mistake on the
drummer's part, you can hear why Ozzy would hire him to join his own
band. They also did a nice job at finding a new ending to the song.
I've never been a fan of Type-O Negative, but their performance of the
song Black Sabbath is perfectly suited to their style. They are a very
atmospheric band who added piano and harpsichord (?) and other effects
(Do I hear bubbles?) to make this song even darker than normal, which I
would have thought impossible. The vocals on this one are so slow and
dark, with very interesting harmonies at the very end. They also did
some interesting things with the ending solo section of the song,
including playing part of Killing Yourself to Live and the leads to
Fairies Wear Boots on keyboards.
All in all I'd say that I was pleasantly surprised by the disc and found
something to like about most songs.
I've also noticed that Monster Magnet do Into the Void on the second
Nativity in Black disc, so maybe I'll check that out too...who knows, maybe
it will surprise me. Does anyone have any thoughts on these or other
Sabbath tributes?
Thanks,
Eric
[ Ed Note: I disagree with After Forever. I've stated on this list in the
past, that I like Bio Hazard's version of the song better than the Black
Sabbath original. Go figure. ]
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:56:13 -0600
From: "Tyler Herring" <vegetaman@gmail.com>
Subject: Dehumanizer and forgotten Sabbath Tracks
While reading through the internet, I come to find that Heaven and Hell and
Mob Rules are really well liked, but most people have not heard Dehumanizer
or they pretty much write it off as a piece of trash. I think it was a
breath of fresh air for the band. I know when I got ahold of the album, I
was surprised because it was a different direction for Dio-Sabbath, and I
was quite pleased by the end result. Am I just getting a skewed view from
the internet, or do most fans feel that Dehumanizer was far weaker than the
other two? Because I love the album to pieces.
Anyway, on to my second point. Every now and again I go through a phase of
listening to everything Black Sabbath, and always run across a few songs
that really stand out on albums, but seem to get passed over in the grand
scheme of things. Most of these are from non-Ozzy and non-Dio eras, though.
Three that really stood out to me the last time I went on one of these
listening binges were:
-When Death Calls (Headless Cross)
-I Witness (Cross Purposes)
-Danger Zone (Seventh Star)
On an aside, I heard the mysterious track "The Fallen" via a friend some
time ago that was on the demos of Born Again but never made it to the final
album... Were they crazy? That track was highly deserving of being on that
album!
Sorry for the random spattering of thoughts.
Thanks,
~Will
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NOTES:
1) To contribute to the next issue, please send email to:
list@black-sabbath.com. If you send in a submission that goes
anywhere else besides this, it likely will not get used. Also,
make sure list submssions aren't CC'ed or BCC'ed. Those tend to
get deleted by by spam interceptor software. Make sure a list
submission is *TO* list@black-sabbath.com.
2) DO NOT SEND HTML MAIL TO THE LIST - it is likely to be deleted.
The reason is that I don't have the time to process most HTML mail,
as it comes through to me in a jumbled mess. Send me ASCII (aka
"regular") mail, PLEASE!!
3) Back issues of the newsletter are available in the "Newsletter Archives"
section of our online forums which are available here:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/forums4) Special Delivery Notes:
a) Juno users: I know that your system has a 64k limit on messages.
I will try not to go over that limit with messages.
b) AOL users: Depending on how large a sablist msg is, your system
is going to download the first 2k of this email and then stop.
Download the file to your system and then open it using any word
processor.
5) We have our own forums - you can visit those here:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/forums6) Black Sabbath Web pages of note:
* Joe Siegler's Black Sabbath WWW page is at:
http://www.black-sabbath.com * Alexander Rack's Black Sabbath Fan Club Deutschland Info page is
at:
http://www.black-sabbath.de7) Official Sab Band Member Sites:
http://www.heavenandhelllive.com (The 2007 Tour Page)
http://www.billward.com (Bill Ward)
http://www.cozypowell.com (Cozy Powell)
http://www.iommi.com (Tony Iommi)
http://www.tonymartin.net (Tony Martin)
http://www.ozzy.com (Ozzy Osbourne)
http://www.geezerbutler.com (Geezer Butler)
http://www.ronniejamesdio.com (Ronnie James Dio)
http://www.gillan.com (Ian Gillan)
http://www.vinnyappice.com (Vinny Appice)
http://www.bobdaisley.com (Bob Daisley)
http://www.eric-singer.com (Eric Singer)
http://www.jezzwoodroffe.com (Jezz Woodroffe)
http://www.glennhughes.com (Glenn Hughes)
http://www.donairey.com (Don Airey)
8) For further information, contact Joe Siegler at:
siegler@black-sabbath.com.
*****
# S #
********* ********* We're also supported by the offical Sabbath
# B L A C K # fan clubs in Germany and the U.K.
********* *********
# B # The views expressed in this mailing list are
# # those of the individual authors only, and not
# B # necessarily those of the list maintainer or
# # his place of employment.
# A #
# # All spelling mistakes are that of the orignal
# T # poster. The list editor does not spell check
# # this newsletter.
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*****
John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son,
Jesus Christ, that whoever believed in him shall not
perish, but have everlasting life.
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