Since their debut in 1970, Black Sabbath embodied the term heavy metal, even before the term signified musical genre. With its doom and gloom power chords and lyrical obssession with the occult, the Birmingham, England natives defined a musical approach that is still evident in modern rock. After countless lineup changes and over twenty albums, the band is still going strong. Original bassist Geezer Butler, along with founder Tony Iommi on guitar, Tony Martin on vocals and Bobby Rondinelli on drums, comprise the current roster. Butler phoned from his record company's New York offices to discuss the new Cross Purposes (IRS) album, his own phenomenal career, and the ups and downs of Black Sabbath.

Geezer (real name Terry) explained the origin of his nickname right off the bat. "It's English slang for 'man.' I always used the word when I was a kid so eventually everyone used it on me. It's been my name since I was ten!"

The influence of Black Sabbath is evident everywhere intoday's hard rock scene, from macabre death metal lyrics to the Seattle grunge sound to numerous cover songs popping up on albums. There's even a tribute album in the works to mark the band's 25th anniversary. Geezer admits that he "can't help but notice seeing the band's name in the press. It's a great compliment, especially from fellow musicians after years of being slugged in the press."

He's also generous to bands like St.Vitus, Candlemass and Trouble, who made careers by virtually mimicking the Sabbath sound. "I like them. It's a free life! It's a compliment, sometimes. I relive my youth when I hear a band like Cathedral. They're so close to our original sound that they've captured the spirit of what we started."

Butler stayed with the band until 1984, playing with legendary vocalists Ozzy Osbourne, Ronnie James Dio and Ian Gillan. Disgusted that the Born Again album was credited to Black Sabbath rather than the original group name of Iommi-Butler-Ward-Gillan and the disastrous tour that ensued, he quit and formed his own band. "It was a fun group that played around in England with a bunch of songs I'd had in my pocket for 14 years."

Of all the road stories the veteran has, one of the most vivid is of the show during which he was almost seriously injured and the riotous aftermath. During the Heaven & Hell tour, Butler was hit by a bottle at the start of the show in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. "I think I was doing the intro to 'N.I.B.' and I heard something hit a cymbal. Then I was hit in the head. One minute I'm playing 'N.I.B.,' the next I'm covered in blood! I backed out and was taken off stage. Unfortunately, this happened while the lights were down so everyone thought we walked off! Our fucking idiot road manager came out and asked the audience if they thought it was 1776 again. Just what you want to say to an American crowd!"

Butler continues with a laugh, "We hated him anyhow because he was a spy for the management that we were going to fire. He continued to say things until the crowd went absolutely nuts. By the time I'm in the hospital and kids in Sabbath shirts started arriving covered in blood. We're all lying there, side by side, as if it was a battlefield. Thankfully, it only made the local news." Nowadays, it would be bigger than the Guns'n'Roses incident in St.Louis.

With the exceptions of his solo band and a quick reunion of the original lineup at Live Aid, Butler remained in virtual seclusion for three years. At first he enjoyed the domestic life. "It was great because I hadn't seen much of my kids," remembers the congenial Englishman. "My second one was born in 1984 and he had a lot of problems. I wanted to stay with him and take time out. My kids would play with Ozzy's [kids] and he kept asking me to do an album with him. Eventually I did the No Rest For The Wicked tour with him and had a lot of fun."

Butler's playing was also included in the Just Say Ozzy live EP. After a successful global jaunt that climaxed with the Moscow Peace Festival alongside Skid Row, Bon Jovi and Motley Crue, Butler and Ozzy parted ways and returned to their families in England.

Geezer happened to be in Milwaukee (his favorite American city) visiting his wife's family when he received a call from Wendy Dio (who manages her husband), who invited him to come to Ronnie Dio's solo concert. "I didn't know what to expect since we had't spoken in eight years," admits Butler. "I didn't know if I'd be greeted warmly or if he'd have a hit man do me in. We got on great. I had a few Guinness from his well-stocked dressing room while he was on stage and he dragged me on to play. When I returned to England, Tony [Martin] asked me to get back with him. Then Ronnie suggested the reunion of the Mob Rules lineup when Cozy Powell broke his pelvis in an equestrian accident."

Despite a successful tour in support of the Dehumanizer album, the band members couldn't make it last. "It wasn't working out. Playingwise, it was great. But it didn't feel right. When Ozzy asked us to open his final show in Costa Mesa, CA, things came to a head. Ronnie took a different attitude and refused to do the show. We originally asked Tony Martin to replace him, but he couldn't get a visa on such short notice. So Rob Halford offered to try. He's from Birmingham like us so we had three hours to rehearse in Phoenix and it sounded great. It was done for fun. We didn't care if people - wait a minute - we did care if people threw bottles, but it was a good time."

The results are already history. Halford's legendary pipes gave new strengths to both Ozzy and Dio numbers. Halford enjoyed himself so much he has been performing three different Sab tunes during his current club tour with his new band Fight.

Butler also sets the record straight on the original lineup reunion that was planned for this summer. "We were never going to do an album because the record companies we're all signed to wouldn't allow it. The tour was definite - we spent six months signing contracts. Last June we signed the agreements and the next day Ozzy backed out via fax. We'd already been through this before in 1985 when Ozzy said he was just kidding after talking about a reunion when we played at Live Aid together."

Butler also reveals the problem that derailed the original reunion attempt in 1985. "Ozzy was served with lawsuit papers from his father-in-law (his wife Sharon managed his career while her father was handling Tony Iommi's at the time). He took it personally from Tony even though Tony didn't have anything to do with it. I eventually left, rather than work with him, too."

Although singer Tony Martin has already recorded three albums with Black Sabbath, Cross Purposes marks the first time that he has worked with Geezer Butler. Butler has only positive things to say. "He's great! He has no ego and considers himself and ordinary person. He's open to criticism where a lot of people - no names mentioned - aren't. If you don't like something, he'll go away and change it. He's open to help with the lyrics, too. When you get to my age, the last thing you want is an egomaniac. He's a refreshing change."

Unbeknownst to many, Geezer has always written the majority of Black Sabbath's lyrics. In his typical low-key fashion, he has never cared whether it was publicised information. He explains that "everyone was involved from scratch. We'd start from scratch in rehearsal and start to jam. The music would come out so we'd credit it as a four way thing." Butler feels that the preoccupation with publishing credit takes away from a band. "That's why bands don't last very long nowadays. When you do it just for the money, it's pointless."

Cross Purposes is far superior to the last two albums featuring Tony Martin: Headless Cross and Tyr. Butler cites a "higher level of consistency. Those albums had a mtes a "higher level of consistency. Those albums had a mix of good and not so good. This has a different standard, whether it be high or low, I don't know," he quips.

While some cite Butler as the ultimate heavy metal bassist, others point out his ability to groove. Like other great bass players John Entwistle and John Paul Jones, he possesses the natural gift to mix quick fills into the mix, rather than hang back with the drummer. Geezer reveals that "when I first got together with Ozzy, I played rhythm guitar. Then we met Bill Ward and Tony Iommi and formed Earth. I became turned on to bass by Jack Bruce of Cream. He was my hero. I never even thought of bass before. I just went along with what Bill and Tony played and tried to fill in between. There weren't any videosthen to watch others and I hated books. It's all self-taught.

Butler and Iommi have been creating music together for over twenty years now. Geezer claims that it has become "spiritual. We don't even talk about writing songs, we know what's going to happen. There's no explanations, no monotony. It's incredible. Tony can riff forever - we have to make him stop sometimes. He was a great jazz player when we first met. He covers all styles. This band actually limits his abilities."

Black Sabbath's show during the 1992 Dehumanizer tour was one of the best I've ever witnessed in the Orpheum. When Butler is asked how he still manages to get excited for the concert setting after so many shows, he quickly replies, "You can't beat live gigs. You can be as clever as you want in the studio, but nothing beats the atmosphere of a good crowd. When we play Boston, it's all Sabbath people. Our last show was a small audience of three thousand people, but they know us back to front. Some gigs the crowds don't really have a clue."