To many people, the thought of BLACK SABBATH, conjures up images of OZZY Osbourne pacing the stage in a fringe shirt shouting  “I thought you were gonna go wild tonight” and singing his off-key and voice cracking interpretations of “Paranoid”, “Sweet Leaf” and “Iron Man.”  To others it’s Ronnie James Dio mesmerizing the audience with “Heaven and Hell”, “The Mob Rules” or “TV Crimes.” But if you follow the current Black Sabbath, it’s Tony Martin who’s now back as the Master of Ceremony.

 Last year, after the OZZY/SABBATH reunion fell through and Ronnie James departed in disgust to the speculation of the aforementioned  reunion, guitarist Tony Iommi turned to Martin to help resurrect  the band once again.  Martin, who was responsible for singing and writing the lyrics on the 1990 release “TYR” and the 1989’s “Headless Cross”, proved again that he was up to the challenge.
 
 What soon resulted was “Cross Purposes”, which to many long time Sabbath fans was the bands’ most solid recording in years.  Musically it was classic Sabbath, however lyrically it was quite different. The Martin penned lyrics were all influenced by  current happening. This was a bit of a contrast for Sabbath, who in the past wrote mainly in reference to the occult or historical events. 
 
The band embarked on a world tour shortly after the release of “Cross Purposes”. Two days into the tour, I phoned Tony Martin for a progress report. Here’s what transpired.  

Your new album "Cross Purposes" marks your return to the Black Sabbath line-up.  Why did you decide to return to Black Sabbath and what did you do while Ronnie was in the band?

While Ronnie was in the band, I was doing a solo album. I still have, at the moment, a deal with Polydor Records in Germany. It's a Tony Martin solo album called "Back Where I Belong". There were 32 musicians on the album, including Brian May from Queen and Ringo Starr's son Zack played the drums. I had a gospel choir on a track. It's not at all like Black Sabbath, it's more like Eric Clapton/British Rock.  As far as coming back to Sabbath, obviously when Ronnie left that gave me the opportunity to continue the good work that we started with "Headless Cross" and "Tyr".  (The title "Cross Purposes" actually came from Geezer, because we couldn't think of a title for the album.)

How does "Cross Purposes" compare to "Tyr" and "Headless Cross"?

I don't think it does. It's a new album for Black Sabbath, which is cool.  It has a different sound. Black Sabbath, all through their history, experimented with different sounds, styles, tempos and that sort of thing. Right from the Ozzy days, Tony (Iommi-like I need to tell you that) would put classical guitar sections in between tracks and they would have orchestras, harmonica's and all sort of different things. It's not uncommon for Sabbath to do something slightly unusual.

All four of the Black Sabbath releases in which you were a member, are musically and lyrically very solid. You must be very proud of your accomplishments in the band thus far.

Yeah, I am.  Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to play some of our older (Tony Martin era Sabbath) songs on the road. Because we're pretty much concentrating on the newer material and we're also pulling out of the bag, some of the older Ozzy-Sabbath songs that have never been played live before.

What songs are you referring to?

Ah-Ha! You'll have to go to the show and find-out. (Ed. Note: Well if you were playing anywhere near here, maybe I would) It's a secret, but I think Sabbath fans will be very happy when we play these songs.

Was your lyrical contribution greater on this release than on past Sabbath recordings?
No, it was the same. I write all the lyrics and all the melodies.  I even help put some of the music together. Which has happened since I started writing for "Headless Cross".  The album before "Headless Cross", "External Idol" was completely written when I joined the band. The late Ray Gillen helped write that one but then he left to join another band.

Do you think "Cross Purposes" will appeal to the diehard BLACK SABBATH fans?

It's impossible to tell. One of the things I have to get across here is Black Sabbath is not concentrating on one part of its history, it's a band with a phenomenal history spanning 25 years. Ozzy's been out of the band for 15 years.  And that's a long time. In the span there have been many different people involved in Black Sabbath.  Without people like Ronnie James Dio, you wouldn't of had "Heaven and Hell" and that sort of stuff.  Without myself there wouldn't of been "Headless Cross" or "Tyr".  All those different eras have sections in the show, we don't concentrate on just one part, we put across Sabbath's entire history. If you're only interested in hearing Ozzy stuff, go to an Ozzy show, if you only want to hear Ronnie's stuff, go to one of his shows. But if you want to see Black Sabbath, you've got to be prepared to listen to the whole history of the band and not just part of it.

Getting back to the new album. Three of the tracks on "Cross Purposes" deal with the subject of cults and religious fanatics.  Did You write them in reference to the events that took place last year in Waco, Texas?

Which one are you talking about?

Well, mainly "Psychophobia" but "I Witness" and "Cardinal Sin" seem like they may also touch upon that subject.

Yes, "Psychophobia" was indeed written about Waco, Texas.  The word "Psychophobia" actually means the fear of the mind.  People in England would say that bloke (David Koresh) was a complete and utter nutter.  He thought he was the second Messiah or something. You just have to be aware of people like that. They come out of the woodwork every now and then.  That was one the songs. The "I Witness" track was about something I saw on T.V. about the Amish people over here in England. They live in total seclusion.  They have nothing to do with the outside world. Jehovah's witnesses are a little strange as well sometimes.  That's what "I Witness" is about. "Cardinal Sin" was originally titled "Sin Cardinal Sin" but it didn't get printed properly.  That song is about a Catholic bishop in Ireland that had a love child and hid the fact for 21 years. When his kid grew up, the kid went out and told everyone. Consequently, he was fired from the Church.  "Cross of Thorns" was about the Irish situation in Northern Ireland. The young people over there are very frustrated and angry. I was talking with one young chap about religion and he said "religion over here is like holding a cross of thorns." I took that and turned it into a song about their anger and frustrations.  "The Hand That Rocks the Cradle", that one's about a mass murder that we had in England.  It was a lady that worked in the hospital and killed infants. That's sick enough.  You can see by the way this is going that all of our songs deal with current events, problems of today. That is the main difference from how I wrote the other albums.  The other's were from a historical point of view. "Headless Cross" was the name of the village that I lived in, in England. That's how I changed the lyrics, as far as vocals, I left off all the harmonies this time. "Headless Cross" and "Tyr" I would sometimes layer forty or fifty voices to achieve an effect. For this album, I just went in and sang it.

It seems to me that you have a rather negative view on organized religion.

I don't think so much negative, it's just that so much of it is so two-faced.  They'll say one thing and do another.  You can really  pinpoint religion as being responsible for quite a few wars. It's difficult to be optimistic about religion, but I do have my own personal beliefs.  I'm not totally disregarding it.

I have to admit, I do see your point and it's unfortunate that things like that happen and exist.

Yeah, it is.

"Cross Purposes" is the first recording in which you worked with Geezer Butler. Was this at all intimidating, due to the fact that you were not just working with Tony, but with the duo that was responsible for creating most of the classic Black Sabbath material?

No, I wasn't uncomfortable with it at all. I've known Geezer for some time. He's been on stage with us before. (As a special guest on some of the "Headless Cross" dates in England)  It wasn't like it was a totally new situation for me and we get along well. 

Black Sabbath also has a new drummer, Bobby Rondinelli.  Tell us a little about him and explain why Cozy Powell wasn't invited back?

Well, Cozy had to leave the band a few years ago because he was injured in a horse-riding accident.  The horse died and fell on him, breaking his pelvis.  Shortly after, he had a bad car accident which put him out of work for some months. Tony Iommi then recruited Vinny Appice, but then when Ronnie left, Vinny went with him. We were without a drummer for some time.  Bobby called us up and said "I'm your new drummer." We thought, boy, he's got some nerve for saying that!  So we called him over to try him out and he turned out to be really good.  He's played with Rainbow and is a very good drummer.

What's your opinion on the last Sabbath album "Dehumanizer"?

I think there's some good stuff on that release. We still do the song "Time Machine" but overall I don't have a problem with the album, but I do have one with the concept that was surrounding it.  I just felt it was like taking a big step backwards. But there's nothing particularly wrong with the record.  It sounds a little stiff, however.  You see with that recording, the band made up the music together, but they had no idea what the vocals were going to be until they all got into the studio. Ronnie really wasn't at rehearsals a great deal, so they had no idea how it was going to turn out.

Were you at all disappointed with the commercial success of "Headless Cross" and "Tyr"?

Well you see, we had a problem with the record company at that time.  They weren't advertising the shows or the record properly. We could of had a lot more success if we had the help from the record company.  Many of the problems in Sabbath history were not of the bands making, a lot of it had to do with contracts and company bullshit.

Your label I.R.S. recently put a full page ad in Billboard Magazine for your new release.  It seems like they're now willing to spend the money to properly promote it.

Yeah, it's really good because we also have the MTV support in Europe with spots every half-hour.  We're doing a video this afternoon (February 9th) for "The Hand That Rocks the Cradle". We're gonna have a live shot in the Boston theater tonight.  We're gonna see how that looks and maybe that will be what we release. IRS is giving us much more support than they did with either "Headless Cross" or "Tyr". If they gave those two albums the same support that they're giving us now, maybe it wouldn't have been necessary for Ronnie's brief return to the band.

You're currently two dates into your tour with Motorhead and Morbid Angel..How has it been so far?

Wild, the places that we've played have been really small. We could just barely get equipment of all three bands on stage. Motorhead's and Morbid Angel's drum kits were side by side.  The front of the bass drum was at the front of the stage. There was nowhere for anyone to stand on the stage.  But even under all that adversity, both bands played incredibly.  The audience was absolutely wild, they were stage diving, slam dancing and all that sort of crap.  But so far, we've played some very strange venues. We were originally slated to go out with Deep Purple but that was cancelled when Ritchie Blackmore left the band. This current tour in the States will last till mid-March and then we probably won't be back until another five to six months.
Final question....When all is said and done, how do you think the Tony Martin era of Black Sabbath will be looked upon?

I have no idea.  I know how I'd like them to look at it. But I have no idea how they're going to, that's anybody's guess. I can only hope they'll look upon it as the era that took it into the future direction.  Having tried to go back with Ronnie and failing, and trying with Ozzy and failing again, you have to go forward and stop looking into the past. The only direction to go now is farther into the future and try to make this thing as big as we possibly can. It's been a long time since Ozzy left and we're still playing those old songs. But, I think the new album is good and as time goes on, maybe it won't be necessary to supplement our shows with so many old songs. For more on Tony www.tonymartin.net