They aren't called Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi anymore. But he's the last of the original Sabs, and that suits Ray Gillen just fine.

Slowly, slowly, Black Sabbath had become a shadow of what it once was. For the last album, they became Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi. He was the last of the originals. Grey Sabbath might have been more appropriate.

Bill Ward had discovered the unending bender, and had sniffed up is farm in England. It had gotten to the point where he was living like a bag man on he streets of Los Angeles, just one more bearded indigent.

Ozzy had his own well-publicized problems with his poisons. He too wound up in L.A, but through the grace of the laughing fates, and several hit solo records, he did his time at the Betty Ford Clinic. But not before disappearing for three weeks, shaving his head and sending his hair in an envelope to his wife/manager Sharon. One of these days we'll get the story of those three weeks. It's bound to be a dilly!

Stepping into Ozzy's shoes is something a sane person might think twice before doing. Not just ozzy's shoes, but Ronnie James Dio's and Glenn Hughes' shoes, as well. Ray Gillen didn't give it a second thought. It was his ticket out of the obscurity of the Jersey bar circuit and into the big time.

Ray got his big taste of the big time. He went on the road with Sabbath, a tour that took this Jersey homeboy to Birmingham England, where Ozzy & Tony are homeboys. And now it has take him, for the first time, into a major recording studio.

It hasn't phased Gillen. He's looking forward to this album. He's now part of a band that is once more called just Black Sabbath. And he's on his way. Metal Mania traveled a few yards of the way with him. Here's what he had to say.

MM: How did it feel making your first album?

RG: It felt great! The final result is wonderful! When I listen to the tape, I like it more and more. It's good to know that it's my first album. I didn't want to do anything that I would regret. I want to look back on this in a couple of years and feel good about it. And I think I will. But, like anyone would say I'd probably feel that I should have done some things differently. That always happens when you look back. This is a good debut album for Ray.

MM: You seem very confident.

RG: I am confident about it. Listening to the album at first, it took me awhile to get used to it and I was being a bad critic on myself. It's my first appearance on vinyl, so I guess that's natural. I can't wait until the recordings are over and it's out. It should be released in April (ed note: 1987).

MM: What's the title?

RG: We don't know yet. We're just tossing ideas around. Maybe something like Eternal Idol or Glory Ride. We aren't sure, so don't quote me on that.

MM: Is it going to sound like typical and classical Black Sabbath?

RG: It's heavy, not like the last album. The music gets involved, and it's intricate.

MM: Black Sabbath seems to write rather conceptually. Will the new LP further establish a theme?

RG: No, it's not a conceptual album, really. It just consists of nine very heavy tracks. Tony was just getting back to heavy songs. The last album, Seventh Star, he kind of got away from that.

MM: Why do you think he did that?

RG: That album was supposed to be a solo album. It was supposed to be the Tony Iommi Band or something like that. However, I guess the record company just wanted it to be called Black Sabbath. That's the thing that started the whole controversy. It was really a solo album, and when you do a solo album you want to kind of step into things you haven't done before. He was doing bluesy numbers and some ballads. He just wanted to get away from the heaviness for awhile. This album, he got back into the metal. He's the Tony Iommi everyone knows and loves.

MM: Is the band still called Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi?

RG: No not anymore.

MM: I think it should be called Black Sabbath. I'm glad they did that.

RG: I agree that it should be Black Sabbath. It's TOny's thing, though, and if that's what he wants to call it, that's what it's going to be and people should just accept it. Think that Ozzy and Ronnie should just accept it. On the last album, people really got down on it.

MM: Why do you think people had negative reactions to it?

RG: I really can't nail down what it was. I think that it was because people had their views of Black Sabbath with Ozzy and the original lineup. And I don't like it when we do shows and the people review the band as the old Black Sabbath. I think that's very unfair.

MM: It's almost like the David Lee Roth/Van Halen complex.

RG: Yeah, exactly. The band, no matter who it is or who's in it, should be previewed on what they're doing at the time. Black Sabbath is a legendary name and people are going to pick on it. After this album is out, people don't have to pick on it anymore. It will stand on its own and will change a lot of minds. I believe that the album is great. There's great material, and Tony's playing well.

MM: How do you think Ozzy and Ronnie are going to react to the album?

RG: I think that Ronnie will listen to it, and appreciate it for what it is. As far as Ozzy is concerned, he can say all he wants. I wouldn't even defend what he would have to say. It doesn't matter to me, and I really don't care. If he wants to say stuff to get himself some press, fine.

MM: How does Tony feel about the album?

RG: He feels great because he knows his playing is great. He's really happy about the whole thing. He wishes it could go a little faster, but there have been a few time delays.

MM: When I interviewed you last, I think you said you'd be touring England. The tour was cut a little short. What happened?

RG: I came in during the height of the response to Seventh Star. Everything was all Glenn, Glenn, Glenn. He left and it stirred a lot of controversy. Nobody knew who the hell I was! The shows I did helped spread the word about me. The band started to regain some lost confidence.

MM: How was your confidence level at that point?

RG: It never wavered. I wasn't intimidated by the Sabbath name or crowd - although the crowd made me wonder! I sang like I've been a part of that band band all my life. That's kind of attitude I had to take and I had to show them that it's the way I'm going to be. I'm going to deliver the goods whether you like it or not. Singing all of the Ozzy and Ronnie songs are fun, but I can't wait to get my own stuff out there.

MM: Do you think they'll like it?

RG: I think so. I know what the kids like.

MM: You're a rock fan yourself, so you should have an instinct for what the kids will like.

RG: Exactly. I'm from the old school of rock and roll. That will never die. It's in everybody, but it comes back in cycles where the bands just get up there and play without giving a damn for the image. You either got it or you don't with the music. You ain't gonna get it with clothes or makeup. It's from inside and below the belt. Live, I'd rather stand still and sing than run and jump like an idiot.

MM: How did the fans like you in England?

RG: I thought they'd react negatively at first because Sabbath is from Birmingham England, and I though that they'd be Ozzy and Ronnie fanatics. They weren't like that at all. If you prove to them that you're capable of singing the songs and that that you're a good person with talent, you're going to convince them. They try to intimidate you. They audience is very dedicated. Black Sabbath are like the hometown boys. Even through it wasn't the original lineup, the people make you work. If you're in that band, they expect you to be what the band has been for all these years. They want the band to be heavy. I think we'll get that point across with the next album.

MM: How did the Americans respond?

RG: The Americans were real neat. A few times I had people coming up to me saying, "Glenn, what's up?" They didn't know. All they did was hear Glenn Hughes and they saw me instead. They thought I was him. American audiences are the best.

MM: Why do you say that?

RG: I'm not saying that because I'm an American. They are just very cool. The girls and the guys are friendly. They are really horny for the music. They come to the shows wanting it. You walk out on stage and you see these people salivating for loud, hard, and heavy music. They want it. And you have to deliver it to them. Of you don't deliver it, they can turn on you. They'll let you know if you're good or not. If the American audience likes you, it's the best.

MM: What's Tony like to work with in the studio?

RG: He makes you work hard, yet he's lenient in letting you go at your own pace. You have to have things done. When he's ready to go into the studio, you have to have your homework done. He doesn't tell me how to sing. He just lets me know whether it's good or bad. He doesn't pressure you. He lets you flow along with everything.

MM: Is Tony a dictator type?

RG: No, not at all. He's got that look to him that is very domineering and intense. I watch kids sit there and look at him. They get paralyzed. He can give you a look that will put you in your seat. I feed off of Tony He's without a doubt the main source of energy in the band. Everybody sort of lugs into his energy and we all fire up.

MM: He reminds me almost of a father figure, a real leader.

RG: He is. He's been around for so long that all the experience just oozes out of him. When he sits down next to you and tells you something, you know he's been through it.

MM: What kind of advice has he given you?

RG: He's steered me in musical ways that help me look at the music a little differently and he helped my approach.

MM: What would you say is the main thing you learned from Tony?

RG: Basically, a feel for a song. Now, I had always been able to feel songs; he just put me into the frame of mind that would really submerge myself into a song. He would sit down and talk it over with me and describe what he felt about the feeling of the song and not necessarily what it was about. He would describe the essence of the song and make it very visual for me.

MM: How much songwriting did you do on the album?

RG: I did quite a bit. I'm still young when it comes to writing, but I come up with a lot of good ideas. I came up with song concepts, then Geoff Nicholls (keyboard player), Bob Daisley, who is our new bass player ,and I would write. Bob's a great songwriter, and he wrote every word that Ozzy ever spit out of his mouth. Ozzy wouldn't tell you that.

MM: On the new album, you wrote a song called "The Shining". Can you tell me the meaning behind it and what inspired you to write it?

RG: "The Shining" to me was a very mysterious type song. "Rise up to the Shining" is a phrase from the song that has a double meaning in the sense that it's from the movie and it is also something good. The shining is the people, it's the band. Rise up to us, we will rise up to you. It's clairvoyance, which is what the movie was all about. One of the lines toward the end is "Shared reflections is our power to shine". That's what it's like at a show. The audience shines. They think because they are there to see you, that only you can shine. But when you're on stage and you're looking at them, they're shining too. You feed off of each other.

MM: What happened to Dave "The Beast" Spitz?

RG: Dave had to leave. He had some difficulties with his personal life at the time. It was affecting him mentally. Tony felt that he should clear up what he had to do. He had to get away from the music because it was making everything worse for him. Sometimes it happens and you have to take a step back and look at what is in front of you. That's what Dave had to do. He had to think about what his priorities are.

MM: What is your philosophy on success?

RG: Just go for it and not let anything stop me. Like a horse with blinders, you have to look straight ahead. You can't take it too easy. All the great people who have made it big have never strayed from that path. They kept their eyes on what they wanted to do and they did it. You can't turn off that road or you may never get back on it. The opportunity I got to play with Black Sabbath only comes once. If you don't take advantage of things, they won't come again. That's what I told Dave. This is your one shot and don't let anyone take it away from you.

MM: Do you think he'll be back?

RG: He'll definite get back into it. When something like that happens, you really start getting and attitude, a fire. It's a revenge type of feeling. You want to fight back. That's where you get that fire from. He didn't have that fire before. Dave Spitz will be back with a vengeance.

MM: What's Bob Daisley like?

RG: Bob is great. He's like Tony, he's been around for all those years. He used to play with Gary Moore and Ozzy.

MM: Was there any kind of flack about Bob's arrival into Black Sabbath being that he was well known with Ozzy's solo years?

RG: No, not really. We thought we'd really get some shit from it. Bob likes the music a lot and he wants to stick with the band. I'm happy because I'm working with these legends that I used to see on TV and everywhere else and now I'm working alongside them.

MM: Do you see yourself as a rock and roll legend in the future?

RG: I hope so. I want the peers, the people that are in the business to accept me and respect me a singer. I want the kids to like me, too. Basically, there is a whole new generation, a new breed of bands coming up now.

MM: How do you feel about that new breed of bands?

RG: I look through these magazines [flipping through a Hit Parader] and they all look the same. I guess that's what's happening now.

MM: You keep yourself in good shape. Do you overindulge in partying?

RG: No way. I'm straight as an arrow. I do my share of drinking, but nothing that's over the limit. I'm very careful with my voice. There are some singers who can wail away on the booze every night. I watch out for myself. I want to stay healthy.

MM: How did you mentally prepare yourself for suddenly being thrust into one of the world's major bands?

RG: I didn't have time. They told me that I had two days to learn everything. I was in one of my hometown clubs the other day and some kid asked me for my autograph. I was strange and a little different. I'm not different, the people seem different to me. And they see you differently.

MM: What do you see in the immediate future for Black Sabbath?