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Thread: Guitar tuning

  1. #1

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    Default Guitar tuning

    Can anyone tell me when Iommi & Butler tuned down 3 steps live. I'm not a big fan of poor quality Boots, but I can hear from Paris Olympia 20th Dec '70 they were still using concert pitch.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]

    Can anyone tell me when Iommi & Butler tuned down 3 steps live. I'm not a big fan of poor quality Boots, but I can hear from Paris Olympia 20th Dec '70 they were still using concert pitch.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    They've been tuning down since Master Of Reality, so that'd be 1972.
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    I heard it was standard for the first two, down 1 and a half for the next three-four and standard for the last two.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]
    I heard it was standard for the first two, down 1 and a half for the next three-four and standard for the last two.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's correct. They started tuning down on Master of Reality and tuned back to standard on Technical Ecstasy. They simply did songs from the different eras in whatever they were tuned to, which is why War Pigs and Paranoid are lower in disc 1 of Past Lives but Snowblind and Symptom of the Universe are higher on the Never Say Die DVD.

    Nowadays, though, they have enough extra instruments to switch and do every song at the pitch of the original album.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    By the way, anyone see the point in tuning down to C# on Symptom? I always play it in standard.
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]
    By the way, anyone see the point in tuning down to C# on Symptom? I always play it in standard.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It makes that bridge riff a LOT easier to play. Instead of finger-twisting all in the second position you can pedal off the open 'A' string. That riff just before the solo also benefits from being able to play against an open string.

    Plus, there's the whole 'slack-tuned' sound factor....

  7. #7

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]
    Instead of finger-twisting all in the second position you can pedal off the open 'A' string. That riff just before the solo also benefits from being able to play against an open string.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heh, I'll have to try that out.
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  8. #8
    blee
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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    with tuning down you also can get a deeper sound. I exoerimented with tuning down a bit and now i pretty much keep one of my guitars always tuned to C now. It's a lot more expressive, easier to move around, and it has a really ballsy sound.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    I would vote myself the worst guitar tuner in the world... so i'm gonna try some of this stuff

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    yeah,but some songs on paranoid,and black sabbath where tuned slightly above standard

  11. #11

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    In the September 2004 Guitar World, it has riffs from Sabbath including Symptom, which is listed as being standard.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]
    yeah,but some songs on paranoid,and black sabbath where tuned slightly above standard

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Production issues, I'm almost sure.

    On the Black Sabbath record they're sound slightly below standard, and on the Paranoid record, slightly above.

    IF you wanna play along to them, however, you have to change the tuning.
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    [ QUOTE ]
    In the September 2004 Guitar World, it has riffs from Sabbath including Symptom, which is listed as being standard.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Those are not necessarily official transcriptions.
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  14. #14
    GCrites80s's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    Listen guys, before things get too intense, remember that in a live setting, Sabbath songs could end up heard in any number of keys. I've heard Snowblind in so many tunings. I've heard War Pigs sound like it was all the way down in Bm. There is no hard-and-fast rule live at all. Why does Ozzy sound like shit near the beginning of Symptom of the Universe on the Never Say Die DVD? Iommi and Geezer are playing it in A-440 in the G position... way too high for Ozzy to sing. Maybe he deicided to do drugs all the way up until the show started instead of warming up his voice. That was probably his punishment.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    BTW, I thiink the harshness of Ozzy's voice on NSD suits the song perfectly. And diddn't Tony play Symptom differently n studio than live

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    Tony and Geezer used different tuning on may different songs. I heard (but am not sure of) that Tony and Geezer were more concered with being in tune with each other.I don't know if they even used a tuner or anything. Then at some potin they got a keyboard play and then they had to be in a certain tuning with a keyboard player.
    I believe Ozzy said in a guitar mag that Tony and Geezer perfered to keep their guitar in whatever tuning it was in. But with Randy Rhoads if ozzy could sing it very well,Randy was more then happy to change the tuning. Ok it not a excat quote form ozzy but it's about what he said. I believe Tony once said in a guitar mag that over the years the songs are sometimes played in different tunings.\
    If any one noticed the Tony's solos sounded different live then the did on the album it because he couldn't
    (in his own words)"remember the whole bloody solo!"

  17. #17
    GCrites80s's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    I definitely see what you're saying about Tony and Geezer mainly tuning to each other, since many young people don't understand that $15 battery-powered electronic tuners weren't all over the place in the '70s. Tuning to an exact pitch was kind of a hassle at times.

    But, I'm not so sure about the Randy Rhoads thing. I don't know if Randy liked to tune down that much. About half of Diary is tuned to Eb, but it seems that he may not have liked C#. When they did Children of the Grave, Randy played it in standard but in the key of C#m at the 4th fret of the A string.

    Randy said on several occasions (politely, of course, 'cause that's the kind of dude he was) that the didn't really like Sabbath. When prodded, he would say "I don't want to get into it." I think that he may not have totally understood it yet; Randy didn't listen to Sabbath before joining Ozzy's band. Shit, think about that bridge in Over the Mountain that uses the tritones (AKA the flatted fifth) just like the song Black Sabbath. Ozzy was all like "That's cool, it's like "Black Sabbth" and Randy's all like "What? I've never heard that song." Randy was really big on classical stuff, and I think that Iommi's constant use of the pentatonic and blues scales seemed boring to Randy, who prided himself on his use of a large variety of scales.

  18. #18

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    Default Re: Guitar tuning

    the Randy tuning thing is just what I read in a mag. It was Ozzy i think said something like that. I know Tony tuned down his guitar. Maybe Randy didn't tune down or tune down much,not all tunings need to be tuned down I guess and another thing maybe that was just to try out new songs that never made it to the albums. From my understanding Tony didn't like standard,or didn't use it much,or was not perfect a pitch if you picky about such things.
    remember he lost the tip of his fingers,I believe the tuning down made it easyer for him to play guitar.

    Not all singers can sing in low tunings,or if they can it may not be every song.When they did Children of the Grave, Randy played it in standard but in the key of C#m at the 4th fret of the A string. Maybe It made it easyer for Ozzy to sing.
    Just a thought. I don't clam to be the all knowing.

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