Rate the Martin albums

[gl797]

I think some are missing my point which mainly lies with the use of the name "Black Sabbath".

I stated how much I appreciate the DIO and Gillan material. I don't despise any post Ozzy stuff and never said I did.

here I'll copy-and-paste it again and highlight my points.

"Sub-par albums by Sabbath standards with an occasional good song. I have the same opinion but not as strong of H&H, Mob Rules, Born Again and Dehumanizer. Doesn't mean that they're bad albums though. The Dio and Gillan stuff is still better than any other band imo. I bought all of the Dio/Gillan albums back in the day and paid for many concert tickets as well."

Like I said above I think the Martin era stuff had more of the wallet in mind than the actual music. I also think it's the record company who forced the use of the name upon Iommi. Iommi is my God, I worship the man and have for the last 30+ years.

it's just the use of the name that gets to me. Jimmy Page with three other musicians does not make Led Zeppelin and if he did that he would get a ton of sh** about it I'm sure.

I have no doubt of anyone being a "good guy" here, if they care enough to join this forum then that's more than enough for me to know that they have great taste in music.

I've wanted to state my opinion(s) on the Martin era stuff ever since it came out, and when I saw the title of this thread I figured this was a good a place as any.

I think some people when they see something somewhat negative towards their idols they tend to not pay attention to what they are reading for some reason. I have done it on quite a few topics myself at various forums. It's human nature.

I may be a noob at this forum BUT I am not a Sabbath noob , just the opposite actually, I've have and do spend much of my free time trying to learn from the Masters, since around 1976 to be exact. If it wasn't for them I really don't know how much I would care for music.

I have stated my opinion on the Martin era material and at the risk of turning into a complete troll I am done. Peace.

[Charger]

I have to say totally disagree with most of what you say there, and I don't really think that this thread is the right place to talk about that, but I do respect your opinion no matter how wrong it is

For me the only really sub par Black Sabbath albums are Techincal Ecstacy and Never Say Die and those were so far from the original Sabbath sound that they should not have been called Black Sabbath either if we want to split hairs about the band name...but this Sabbath name thing has been talked to death around here before and it always stirs big emotions around here and never in a good way....

Tony & Ronnie were going to name the band Heaven & Hell from the start but it was the record company who made them use the Sabbath name again...

What comes to Martin era having more to do with the wallet is just absurd though...that was (unfortunately) the low point of Sabbath's commercial success and if they would have been all about the money they would have changed their sound into more commercially acceptable direction, which they did NOT...they did not compromise...they just carried on with the traditional Sabbath style of music which was going out of fashion fast anyways...But it was clear that that was the style Tony loved to do.

But anyways....truly a wrong topic to really be discussing this stuff...just thought I'd throw in my two cents...

And thanks to IR for the compliment...right back at ya buddy!

[gl797]

so let me get this straight, you consider the Martin era stuff to be better than TE and NSD.

dude the conversation with me stops right there then if that's what you're saying.

Those are their two BEST albums imo.

and this IS THE thread to discuss this, at least that's what I get out of the title.
I just happened to have given a bit more than a number rating, which btw none of these albums would have recieved higher than a 3 BY SABBATH STANDARDS...and that's being generous...very generous.

" TE and NSD should not have been called Black Sabbath "
??? that could possibly be the strangest thing I've ever read concerning this topic.
Each new Ozzy-era Sabbath album progressed musically but I don't expect everyone to understand the musical brilliance of a song like "Air dance" or the true power of "You Won't Change Me".

Don't even get me started or I might go into this topic:


Black Sabbath ?
More like an insult to the name as well as Ozzy, Geezer and Bill.
Remember we're not talking about an average band here. We're talking about the greatest band to ever walk this planet and changed the world as we all know it.
This bs pisses me off..as you can probably tell. If I could get my hands around the necks of these record company execs...

[Charger]

so let me get this straight, you consider the Martin era stuff to be better than TE and NSD.

dude the conversation with me stops right there then if that's what you're saying.

Those are their two BEST albums imo.

That is exactly what I'm saying... TE has couple of good songs but is mostly very lackluster...and NSD well, part from the the first three songs it's a complete and utter turd...and surely does not sound one bit like Black Sabbath to me...a totally different sound than on the classic albums.

I can respect your opinion on those albums but I surely cannot understand it one bit.

[hellraiser]

gl.., go to hell

[gl797]

gl.., go to hell

ah..one of my favorites from Alice Cooper

[Ochlocracy]

I never understood the consistent trashing of TE and NSD. If a band makes 2 similar albums they're called repetitive and if they make different albums they are slandered for 'abandoning fans' or 'becoming too commercial'. IMO TE and NSD kick any TM album's ass easily.

[renbergs]

at the risk of turning into a complete troll I am done. Peace.

After I've read and followed your rhetorical technique, I'd say it's time for you to live up to your own words.

[gl797]

After I've read and followed your rhetorical technique, I'd say it's time for you to live up to your own words.

That's alright man, You'll get through it ok, after all it's only an opinion on a few albums.

or maybe I should have said "go to hell" just like the other guy told me. That's a good rhetorical technique too don't you think?

Fan Boys

[renbergs]

[jacksabbath]

although i dont agree with the view tony had no right to continue the name, i do have some part of me that believes the original band should be revered seperately for the magnificent band it was. i can appreciate all eras and enjoy all eras, gillan, martin and dio. they are all black sabbath. however the original band is something altogether different. like a previous poster said, the beatles without lennon mccartney or harrison would stir up a shit storm yet would still be the beatles.

i think the arguments over eras are made worse with hindsight. for example the large success ozzy era sabbath had means it attracts a very large fanbase. however no one gives a shit the al atkins era of priest isnt referred to as the classic line up. or MK 1 deep purple. ihow many people think the iron maiden name should have been retired after di anno's exit in 1981? very few id wager. it's retrospective.

in conclusion, the ozzy era should be respected as a seprate achievement but not as a seperate band.

and for the record:

eternal idol: 8/10
headless cross 9/10
tyr 5/10
cross purposes 7/10
forbidden 6/10

[cwilder86]

I never understood the consistent trashing of TE and NSD. If a band makes 2 similar albums they're called repetitive and if they make different albums they are slandered for 'abandoning fans' or 'becoming too commercial'. IMO TE and NSD kick any TM album's ass easily.

Sad that you feel that way, because saying that the failure that Technical Esctasy and Never Say Die! were, are better than Headless Cross and Cross Purposes is blasphemy! Sabbath went too far off track with TE and NSD, where as Headless Cross and Cross Purposes they were making dark heavy metal again like in their early 70's hay day. A path they never should've strayed from, (or at least strayed no further than Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and Sabotage)

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------

so let me get this straight, you consider the Martin era stuff to be better than TE and NSD.

dude the conversation with me stops right there then if that's what you're saying.

Those are their two BEST albums imo.

and this IS THE thread to discuss this, at least that's what I get out of the title.
I just happened to have given a bit more than a number rating, which btw none of these albums would have recieved higher than a 3 BY SABBATH STANDARDS...and that's being generous...very generous.

" TE and NSD should not have been called Black Sabbath "
??? that could possibly be the strangest thing I've ever read concerning this topic.
Each new Ozzy-era Sabbath album progressed musically but I don't expect everyone to understand the musical brilliance of a song like "Air dance" or the true power of "You Won't Change Me".

Don't even get me started or I might go into this topic:


Black Sabbath ?
More like an insult to the name as well as Ozzy, Geezer and Bill.
Remember we're not talking about an average band here. We're talking about the greatest band to ever walk this planet and changed the world as we all know it.
This bs pisses me off..as you can probably tell. If I could get my hands around the necks of these record company execs...

What are you talking about? Black Sabbath IS the man standing in the middle there. As long as he is around that's all the band really needs.

[Axeman77]

Sad that you feel that way, because saying that the failure that Technical Esctasy and Never Say Die! were, are better than Headless Cross and Cross Purposes is blasphemy! Sabbath went too far off track with TE and NSD, where as Headless Cross and Cross Purposes they were making dark heavy metal again like in their early 70's hay day. A path they never should've strayed from, (or at least strayed no further than Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and Sabotage)[COLOR="silver"]

Wtf are you talking about, Technical Ectasy and Never say die are two incredible albums, they wasn't as "heavy" as earlier stuff, but so what? You won't change me is a really heavy doomy number IMO, and besides that the music is just out of this world, Headless cross is great, it's my 3rd fav sabbath album, but bands evolve, they don't want to keep playing the same old stuff, really pisses me of that people say they was failures, those two albums.

[cwilder86]

Wtf are you talking about, Technical Ectasy and Never say die are two incredible albums, they wasn't as "heavy" as earlier stuff, but so what? You won't change me is a really heavy doomy number IMO, and besides that the music is just out of this world, Headless cross is great, it's my 3rd fav sabbath album, but bands evolve, they don't want to keep playing the same old stuff, really pisses me of that people say they was failures, those two albums.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who thinks they'd take Headless Cross and Cross Purposes over Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! any day. Yeah it's all fine and good for bands too evolve but sometimes they can stray too far from who they are and what they are about and change their sound too much to the point of alienating fans. I feel like that's what happened on TE and NSD. The ground work for what Sabbath was, was laid in Black Sabbath, Paranoid, and MoR. They experimenting as far as they could and still sound good on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. They just got boring with Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! and lost their identities. It was like the band that once played this awesome doom filled heavy metal had just starting playing your average run of the mill rock and roll.

[Charger]

I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who thinks they'd take Headless Cross and Cross Purposes over Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! any day. Yeah it's all fine and good for bands too evolve but sometimes they can stray too far from who they are and what they are about and change their sound too much to the point of alienating fans. I feel like that's what happened on TE and NSD. The ground work for what Sabbath was, was laid in Black Sabbath, Paranoid, and MoR. They experimenting as far as they could and still sound good on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. They just got boring with Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! and lost their identities. It was like the band that once played this awesome doom filled heavy metal had just starting playing your average run of the mill rock and roll.

Oh man...you hit the nail in the head on this one buddy! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[cwilder86]

Oh man...you hit the nail in the head on this one buddy! I couldn't have said it better myself!

Thanks!

[chudbeagle]

so let me get this straight, you consider the Martin era stuff to be better than TE and NSD.

dude the conversation with me stops right there then if that's what you're saying.

Those are their two BEST albums imo.

and this IS THE thread to discuss this, at least that's what I get out of the title.
I just happened to have given a bit more than a number rating, which btw none of these albums would have recieved higher than a 3 BY SABBATH STANDARDS...and that's being generous...very generous.

" TE and NSD should not have been called Black Sabbath "
??? that could possibly be the strangest thing I've ever read concerning this topic.
Each new Ozzy-era Sabbath album progressed musically but I don't expect everyone to understand the musical brilliance of a song like "Air dance" or the true power of "You Won't Change Me".

Don't even get me started or I might go into this topic:


Black Sabbath ?
More like an insult to the name as well as Ozzy, Geezer and Bill.
Remember we're not talking about an average band here. We're talking about the greatest band to ever walk this planet and changed the world as we all know it.
This bs pisses me off..as you can probably tell. If I could get my hands around the necks of these record company execs...

You kinda lose any credibility (if you had any to start with) by claiming TE and NSD are Sabbath's two BEST. Two BEST? Better than Paranoid, Master Of Reality, Vol. 4, Heaven And Hell, Mob Rules, etc.?
While I like elements of both, each have crap that was only recorded due to lack of communication, too much drugs and in NSD's case-Tony having to write everything quickly in the day and the other guys coming in at night and coming up with something to add. Not a way to make a good album and it shows.
Again, there are great songs on each, but with laughable crap like "Breakout", "She's Gone", "Swinging The Chain", "Air Dance", etc. to call these albums their 2 BEST in an argument as to whether the Sabbath name should have been used on great albums like Eternal Idol and Headless Cross is comical.
You have your opinon of course and all of this is subjective, but your opinion here is bizarre and troll-esque.

[Ochlocracy]

"Laughable crap like Air Dance"
*Writes note to self to ignore anything you say to do with music*

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

"Laughable crap like Air Dance"
*Writes note to self to ignore anything you say to do with music*

A little harsh. But I know what you mean Air Dance and Swinging the Chain are favourites of mine. I don't mind people having a different opinion to me, as long as it's clearly an opinion, it should never be presented as if it's a fact.

[gl797]

"Laughable crap like Air Dance"
*Writes note to self to ignore anything you say to do with music*

LOL EXACTLY, I Couldn't have said it any better myself Ochlocracy.

Let's see, which songs do you guys think took the band longer to come up with?
any song from Paranoid, their best selling album
or
Air Dance..or Junior's Eyes...or Gypsy..or Dirty women..or You Can't Change Me...or She's Gone...or Never say Die...or Johnny Blade...or "A Hard Road" .
Not too mention that imo these two albums have Ozzy's best vocals by far. Even Ozzy was getting better in the studio, as amazing as that is.

You guys can keep the Martin/Gillen era stuff, it has nothing that interests me and IMO is basically "Hair band" music with a little more aggression because Iommi is in it.
I'll keep my two favorite albums ever. And yes I loved these two albums from the very first listen, back around 1978-80 TE never left my turntable and if it did it was to put on NSD.

Iommi's solos and the band's overall writing progressed to a very advanced level more and more with each new release. After NSD they went backwards imo. Got a bit "cheesy" to me.

TE and NSD are SO far ahead of their time that even some of you here at THE Black Sabbath community forum don't get them and judging from some of your comments you never will.

Sabbath made 8 albums that are incredible to listen to from the very first song "Black Sabbath" and ending on "Air Dance". How much they evolved as musicians is easy to see and hear. imo it is this that easily set them apart from ALL other bands.
The later stuff, half-heartedly named "Black Sabbath" at first and RIDICUOUSLY using the name later on, are in a completely different category. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hell many people aren't even sure who wrote or played on some of the later stuff. And one thing is for sure, if it wasn't for the first 8 albums this forum wouldn't even be here.

The band name was trivialized by record execs (chasing a buck) and sadly by many others including people here.
Ozzy could have called himself Black Sabbath and in actuality the music probably would have sounded more like Sabbath because a voice is unique while instruments are not..only Ozzy didn't do that.

I stand by EVERYTHING I said and/or will say 100%. I always have. I felt this way about this farce since around the same time Bill Ward has, right around the time I saw the first ever Dio tour. I think I'll take Bill Ward's opinion over ANYONE else's.
Black Sabbath albums ended in 1978.

signed. The Troll
*here's a little lesson for some of you, "imo" stands for "in my opinion".
so I'll try my best to refrain from posting again, as a matter of fact this topic is past boring.
So continue to say what you want about me all because I don't happen to share your opinion.

I'll just leave one general reply to any future negative comments, please see below:


F U

[cwilder86]

"Laughable crap like Air Dance"
*Writes note to self to ignore anything you say to do with music*

Guess you better ignore any thing I say either because Air Dance is pretty sucky. I will admit that proudly. So if you wanna think I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to metal than knock yourself out pal.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

LOL EXACTLY, I Couldn't have said it any better myself Ochlocracy.

Let's see, which songs do you guys think took the band longer to come up with?
any song from Paranoid, their best selling album
or
Air Dance..or Junior's Eyes...or Gypsy..or Dirty women..or You Can't Change Me...or She's Gone...or Never say Die...or Johnny Blade...or "A Hard Road" .
Not too mention that imo these two albums have Ozzy's best vocals by far. Even Ozzy was getting better in the studio, as amazing as that is.

You guys can keep the Martin/Gillen era stuff, it has nothing that interests me and IMO is basically "Hair band" music with a little more aggression because Iommi is in it.
I'll keep my two favorite albums ever. And yes I loved these two albums from the very first listen, back around 1978-80 TE never left my turntable and if it did it was to put on NSD.

Iommi's solos and the band's overall writing progressed to a very advanced level more and more with each new release. After NSD they went backwards imo. Got a bit "cheesy" to me.

TE and NSD are SO far ahead of their time that even some of you here at THE Black Sabbath community forum don't get them and judging from some of your comments you never will.

Sabbath made 8 albums that are incredible to listen to from the very first song "Black Sabbath" and ending on "Air Dance". How much they evolved as musicians is easy to see and hear. imo it is this that easily set them apart from ALL other bands.
The later stuff, half-heartedly named "Black Sabbath" at first and RIDICUOUSLY using the name later on, are in a completely different category. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hell many people aren't even sure who wrote or played on some of the later stuff. And one thing is for sure, if it wasn't for the first 8 albums this forum wouldn't even be here.

The band name was trivialized by record execs (chasing a buck) and sadly by many others including people here.
Ozzy could have called himself Black Sabbath and in actuality the music probably would have sounded more like Sabbath because a voice is unique while instruments are not..only Ozzy didn't do that.

I stand by EVERYTHING I said and/or will say 100%. I always have. I felt this way about this farce since around the same time Bill Ward has, right around the time I saw the first ever Dio tour. I think I'll take Bill Ward's opinion over ANYONE else's.
Black Sabbath albums ended in 1978.

signed. The Troll
*here's a little lesson for some of you, "imo" stands for "in my opinion".
so I'll try my best to refrain from posting again, as a matter of fact this topic is past boring.
So continue to say what you want about me all because I don't happen to share your opinion.

I'll just leave one general reply to any future negative comments, please see below:


F U

Okay first off, why does it matter what song it took longer to write weather it's material from Paranoid or Never Say Die? I don't see how that has any thing to do with the song quality between those two albums. And further more what leg do you or any one else on this forum have to stand on to say that the Sabbath name doesn't belong on the Martin era sabbath albums. And calling them hair metal with a little more aggression? Don't be jealous just because it was Sabbath returning to their true metal roots. Something that never took place on TE and NSD.

[Ochlocracy]

A little harsh. But I know what you mean Air Dance and Swinging the Chain are favourites of mine. I don't mind people having a different opinion to me, as long as it's clearly an opinion, it should never be presented as if it's a fact.

Yeah, it probably was a little harsh, but you get the idea. Air Dance is a really good song and doesn't deserve to be called trash.

[chudbeagle]

LOL EXACTLY, I Couldn't have said it any better myself Ochlocracy.

Let's see, which songs do you guys think took the band longer to come up with?
any song from Paranoid, their best selling album
or
Air Dance..or Junior's Eyes...or Gypsy..or Dirty women..or You Can't Change Me...or She's Gone...or Never say Die...or Johnny Blade...or "A Hard Road" .
Not too mention that imo these two albums have Ozzy's best vocals by far. Even Ozzy was getting better in the studio, as amazing as that is.

You guys can keep the Martin/Gillen era stuff, it has nothing that interests me and IMO is basically "Hair band" music with a little more aggression because Iommi is in it.
I'll keep my two favorite albums ever. And yes I loved these two albums from the very first listen, back around 1978-80 TE never left my turntable and if it did it was to put on NSD.

Iommi's solos and the band's overall writing progressed to a very advanced level more and more with each new release. After NSD they went backwards imo. Got a bit "cheesy" to me.

TE and NSD are SO far ahead of their time that even some of you here at THE Black Sabbath community forum don't get them and judging from some of your comments you never will.

Sabbath made 8 albums that are incredible to listen to from the very first song "Black Sabbath" and ending on "Air Dance". How much they evolved as musicians is easy to see and hear. imo it is this that easily set them apart from ALL other bands.
The later stuff, half-heartedly named "Black Sabbath" at first and RIDICUOUSLY using the name later on, are in a completely different category. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hell many people aren't even sure who wrote or played on some of the later stuff. And one thing is for sure, if it wasn't for the first 8 albums this forum wouldn't even be here.

The band name was trivialized by record execs (chasing a buck) and sadly by many others including people here.
Ozzy could have called himself Black Sabbath and in actuality the music probably would have sounded more like Sabbath because a voice is unique while instruments are not..only Ozzy didn't do that.

I stand by EVERYTHING I said and/or will say 100%. I always have. I felt this way about this farce since around the same time Bill Ward has, right around the time I saw the first ever Dio tour. I think I'll take Bill Ward's opinion over ANYONE else's.
Black Sabbath albums ended in 1978.

signed. The Troll
*here's a little lesson for some of you, "imo" stands for "in my opinion".
so I'll try my best to refrain from posting again, as a matter of fact this topic is past boring.
So continue to say what you want about me all because I don't happen to share your opinion.

I'll just leave one general reply to any future negative comments, please see below:


F U

What the hell is Hair Metal about ANYTHING from the Martin era? Does "When Death Calls" echo White Lion in some way? Do you think of Warrant as you hear "Virtual Death"? And, do you break out the spandex and hairspray when you hear "The Sabbath Stones"? NO!
Get a clue man.
You obviously hate the Martin era and laughably, YOU decide that the Black Sabbath name shouldn't have been used. Maybe that was up to a founding member-Mr. Iommi.
And go ahead and praise TS and NSD because your beloved Ozzy sure as shit won't. Both albums have amazing material, but plenty of crud.
Black Sabbath albums ended in 1978? How about that! All this time I've been buying albums by an imposter.
You sir, are not the genius you think you are, and your close-mindedness is both sad and pitiful.
Enjoy your Kajagoogoo box set, I'm sure they're up your alley so to speak.

[gl797]

All this time I've been buying albums by an imposter.

See you admit it!

You sir, are not the genius you think you are

Well neither are half of the nitwits, yourself included, who keep saying the same f***ing thing.
Buy a dictionary, learn reading comprehension and look up the word "opinion".
I never claimed to be a "genius", I guess it must have been a perception that just came to you. I don't know why nor do I care.

OPINION

*I just gave all of those songs that you mentioned above another listen. All music is an opinion and you're all entitled to yours, as am I. You either like a song or you don't.
But to compare (to my ears) these songs against ANYTHING from TE or NSD is an embarrassment. imo these songs don't even compare to much of the Iommi solo stuff.

This whole thread sounds to me like many of you wanted them to write 40 different versions of Electric Funeral. Great song that has it's place but it was time to move on. Which is exactly what they did over the very short years that they were together.
A few of you are honestly telling me to compare "Virtual Death" to "Junior's Eyes" or compare "When Death Calls" to "Gypsy" or "Dirty Women"?
I did and I don't see much, if any, of a comparison.

note for future reference to everyone:
Don't read opinion threads if you can't accept what other people may write.

[cwilder86]

See you admit it!

Sounds like someone doesn't know the definition of sarcasm. Now you sir, are entitled to your opinions, however my issue with you is that you've come into the "Tony Martin era" forum to bitch about the name "Black Sabbath" being used on these albums. Take it to the "Ozzy" forum, because that's the only forum you acknowledge to be Black Sabbath and complain about this stuff, or the "Black Sabbath General" might even fall better under the category. Regardless of your opinion, I'm gonna say this though. It doesn't matter what it is, because history is what it is. Black Sabbath MOVED ON AFTER NEVER SAY DIE! Accept it, and deal with it. Not liking it is your choice. Take it up with Tony Iommi if it bothers you that badly.

[Steve152006]

Put the clubs down, the horse is already dead!!!

[Josef_K]

to gl797:

I find your opinion very interesting, and I would love to discuss the use of the sabbath name. Personally I believe, given the circumstances, the name should have been given up after Born Again. Actually it was, as we all know, and was forced upon Seventh Star, but Iommi took it back during Eternal Idol, which only damaged the album's reputation, at least in my opinion.

HOWEVER, I would recommend you to create a thread called "What's your opinion on the use of the Sabbath name during the different eras" or something like that in the BLACK SABBATH GENERAL section of the forum. I have nothing against your opinions, I do see where you are coming from, but I don't like that you ruined a thread that was supposed to be about rating the martin era sabbath albums. It's not all your fault, but now half the thread is filled with posts gradually getting more and more aggressive "ozzy-era vs all" posts. I don't like that, it does not belong on this forum. Next time, create your own thread please. Thank you.

[gl797]

I didn't know that rating albums with something more that a number is all that some of the people around here can handle. If you think I ruined this topic then why continue it? Send a pm plz.

Honest opinion of this thread since my first post:
Some people here heard some negative criticism they disagreed with. They then started crying.
I can't help anyone with that.

I wouldn't bring it up in "Black Sabbath General" category for a few reasons..all of them explained here already numerous times.
I chose this thread titled "Rate the Martin Albums".
Makes sense to me but I wasn't expecting so many to tell me what my ratings should be, LOL.

*btw man I'm still waiting on that keyboard only version of "Over and Over", I know I will listen to it a lot. It will be epic I tell ya and an awesome tribute to RJD.

[Josef_K]

I didn't know that rating albums with something more that a number is all that some of the people around here can handle. If you think I ruined this topic then why continue it? Send a pm plz.

Honest opinion of this thread since my first post:
Some people here heard some negative criticism they disagreed with. They then started crying.
I can't help anyone with that.

I wouldn't bring it up in "Black Sabbath General" category for a few reasons..all of them explained here already numerous times.
I chose this thread titled "Rate the Martin Albums".
Makes sense to me but I wasn't expecting so many to tell me what my raings should be, LOL.

*btw man I'm still waiting on that keyboard only version of "Over and Over", I know I will listen to it a lot. It will be epic I tell ya and an awesome tribute to RJD.

I think you misunderstood me here. The part where you say that the martin albums are crap does belong to this thread, though I would appreciate if you adapted to the "system" and rated in numbers as well. It is when you bring up whether they should be labeled "Black Sabbath" or not you go off topic, and usually it's no problem going a bit off topic. But you did in a way that turned this thread into an aggressive "ozzy-only vs all-eras-are-special" argument that imo does not belong here. This is about rating the Tony Martin era Sabbath albums, not the place to discuss if TE is the best Sabbath album ever made. I know I shouldn't contribute to the off-topic discussion, but I felt that the thread was kinda dead anyway :D Oh and btw, I love TE, I tried to do a cover of "You Won't Change Me", since the song describes me as a person so incredibly well (along with Rainbow's "Self Portrait"). But I failed, couldn't come up with melodies/chords that fitted both my voice and the song theme, sadly. I do have a piano cover of "Rusty Angels" though, but something tells me that you are not interested in that hahaha

I had completely forgotten about that I promised to send you the "Over and Over" piano only version, please PM me your email (or do I already have it?) and I will fix it as soon as possible (probably tomorrow). Anything for old Ronnie James, the greatest musician that has ever lived.

[Zak Mayers]

The Eternal Idol - 7
Headless Cross - 10
TYR - 8
Cross Purposes - 10
Cross Purposes Live - 9
Forbidden - 8

[Monster Boy]

Eternal Idol - 4
Headless Cross - 6
TYR - 3
Cross Purposes - 5
Forbidden - 2

All of the above are out of 50.

JK, out of 10. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the TM era, but I do find merit in a song here and there (no 0's or 1's!)

Edit: As suggested below, I listened to Headless Cross and TYR again. HC has slipped to a 3.5, TYR has risen to a 4.5.

[Zak Mayers]

Eternal Idol - 4
Headless Cross - 6
TYR - 3
Cross Purposes - 5
Forbidden - 2

All of the above are out of 50.

JK, out of 10. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the TM era, but I do find merit in a song here and there (no 0's or 1's!)

You should give those another listen. Those are some seriously underrated albums!

[Fused1990]

Eternal Idol - 7
Headless Cross- 10
TYR- 3 (i'm really not keen on this one)
Cross purposes - 7
Fobidden- 5

[Monster Boy]

You should give those another listen. Those are some seriously underrated albums!

What's the point of listening to music you don't like over and over again? I know, I know, because I might be missing something, granted. I'm sure I'll listen to them again when the survivor series reaches that point, but unless I've changed my mind about what makes music good by then I probably won't change my mind about my ratings much. You never know though

[B5Erik]

A truly underrated and underappreciated era...

The Eternal Idol - 10
Headless Cross - 7.5
TYR - 8
Cross Purposes - 8.5
Cross Purposes Live - 9
Forbidden - 6 (The one clunker in that group)

[Van Sabbath]

After much listening i've decided on this list. It could change in the future but this is how it has been for awhile for me. Such an amazing era!

The Eternal Idol - 8
Headless Cross - 9
TYR - 7.5
Cross Purposes - 10
Cross Purposes Live - 9
Forbidden - 8