Forbidden fan club

[fondula]

Here's my opinion of the Forbidden album. Wrote this back in 2004.

http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/show...96&postcount=1

I also heard a rumor that when Tony gets to this one in the remaster cycle it could get a remix. But I can't get them to talk about it. Would be nice though as it suffers to an extent to what Born Again's reputation was - bad mix.

That's a really good writeup for the album. I gave this album several spins again recently and one thing that I found myself noticing this time around is how unusual the melodies and structures are, when placed in the context of the body of work that is The Tony Martin Era. It seems that there was a concerted effort to do something a little different. Take "Can't Get Close Enough" for example - the pieces of it don't make a "logical fit" in the way that many songs do, where you might predict what "should come next in the song". Yet the common threads in those pieces are enough to hold it together enough for the song to "make sense" as a whole. Things like that give the album a unique character which keeps me coming back to it. There aren't really songs on it that sound like they could have been on one of the previous albums. The vocal lines are neither your typical "Tony Martin Crooner" lines nor the traditional "belt-your-guts-out" sort of thing that might be expected; they often reside in an odd range between singing and speaking. This is probably one of the key things that put people off of the album - the "traditional metal tools" or "traditional Black Sabbath tools" are mostly left in the shed. But those things are part of what I like about Forbidden. And for the record I think you're spot-on about "Kiss of Death" - especially if you consider G//Z/R's "Giving up the Ghost" and the whole situation with Geezer in general at the time -- it is a message that reads "you can't kill this b(r)and or make me kill it just because you're not here -- this thing is much larger than that".

[Jansa72]

I'm a believer too. The record has some killer tracks. Illusion of Power and Can't Get Close Enough are my favourites.

I believe that Tony Martin wrote the lyrics of Forbidden (the song, not the album) for Iommi. I almost can feel how hard it was to be a singer on this band and do his best. But still, he never was Ozzy, not even Dio. Anything he did was enough.

[protometal]

I didn't like this album when it came out. I was expecting something much different after the excellent Cross Purposes. The album just sounded a bit too "80's" to me and I never got into it, it just seemed like a step back all around.

I broke it out this summer after not listening to it for at least a couple years. I was driving, had it cranked up and was singing along (not sure how I remembered so much of the lyrics). The band sounded good and there were some great Iommi riffs and solos. I could relate to the feelings expressed by Martin's lyrics (though they did seem a little whiny and petty after a while... I guess that sums up many people's feelings during / after a difficult relationship).

Of the Martin albums, I still like Cross Purposes better, but Forbidden and Headless Cross complete for 2nd.

[paulmelv]

Bought this on day of release and wasn't too sure on first listen. Put it away for about a week and on coming back loved it and love it to this day.
I quite like the cover though must say if you are going to base the quality of an album on it's cover,good or bad, then that's rather shallow in my opinion.
Badly needs a new mix, Ernie C's is pish.

[Steve152006]

I love the album, the music more so than the vocals. Many excellent Riffs by Tony and the music is very tight. It really does need a remix though.

[Ray Rules]

Count me in! For me Forbidden is better than Dehumanizer :D Yeah...

[Purple Grant]

I'd be chairman treasurer and mascot of a Forbidden Fan Club.

Who really need to reappraise it are the players themselves. They've been taken in by the negativity and seem to only discuss it in terms of making excuses.
(Looking at a few online setlists it looks as though Tony M. never plays anything off it. If that's true it's a real shame.)

And the "rap" thing it's 10 seconds!
I think Ozzy going "I AM IRON MAN" sounds a little daft, but I don't write off Paranoid as "The silly robot voice album"

Forbidden also ended Dehumaniser's three year reign as worst album cover ever. (Cross Purposes was a bit of a good cover anomaly for this era.)
As the album's so little known and the cover's so bad it would probably be a good idea to commission some new artwork if it gets remastered. It would then have a good chance of being rediscovered as the great album it is

[H&H]

I forgot this thread was out there. I have posted in some other threads, but I suppose I should put it here as well.

I like Forbidden! I have been giving this album a fair and open listen, and there are some very good songs on this CD. After giving this several "deep" listens, I have concluded that it was the production that drove me away from the album (unlike my total love for Born Again's production). Putting this issue aside, I have found a very good album, with a few of tracks being fantastic ("Kiss of Death," "Rusty Angels" and "Can't Get Close Enough").

[Gregory House]

I forgot this thread was out there. I have posted in some other threads, but I suppose I should put it here as well.

I like Forbidden! I have been giving this album a fair and open listen, and there are some very good songs on this CD. After giving this several "deep" listens, I have concluded that it was the production that drove me away from the album (unlike my total love for Born Again's production). Putting this issue aside, I have found a very good album, with a few of tracks being fantastic ("Kiss of Death," "Rusty Angels" and "Can't Get Close Enough").

AMEN ! H&H !

[Axeman77]

I love it! Not my favourite Sabbath album, but I love every Sabbath album as much as each other, there all really special to me, make me a member!

[jjrock88]

Put me down in the fanclub too. It's my least favorite of the TM era, but I love all of the era. I will always put on EI or HC first, but this disc gets a regular rotation.

[Aureustgo]

Is the re-mixing of Forbidden actually going to change it's musical quality? I happen to like the record a decent amoutn (particularly Kiss of Death, Forbidden, Rusty Angels, Illusion of Power), even if it does have some weak spots. But I'm not sure better production will make one enjoy the melodies and riffs better. Maybe I'm wrong?

By constrast, I'm sure the addition of Loser gets it All will make a big difference, as it's a real solid track that should never have been left off for the Japanese market (like Whats the Use).

[OZZYIRONMAN]

It's no longer Black Sabbath's last CD!

according to the label it is

[Krish]

The album cover is indeed cartoony but I think Dehumanizer has a worse cover and interestingly other than myself I have never heard any negative press about the Dehumanizer album cover.

Back to Forbidden - the album is tainted due to the following:
1. Album cover
2. Ice T cameo (on the first track of all things! - first tracks usually set the stage)
3. Production is subpar as if they didn't have enough money to really clean it up - I don't like raw in your face if it means sacrificing production - Appetite for Destruction was raw in your face but production was solid - UYI I&II were over-produced in some respects, but I digress)
4. Tony Martin sounds like he has a cold and isn't soaring like he usually does on many of the tracks
5. Songwriting-wise the tracks seem somehow unfinished or in the demo stage.
6. Need a couple more epics on the track like Kiss of Death.

If the album had 2 longer songs, better production, better artwork, no ICE-T, and more complete-sounding songs, then how can you go wrong with Iommi-Powell-Martin?

The bottom line is that during the recording of Forbidden, Tony Martin has acknowledged that he and Cozy were dead set against Ice T coming in - they didn't know if he was going to be on one track or more than one - in addition they knew nothing in that were that even in the band or not b/c a log was going on behind the scenes... All of this caused what could have been a great album to suffer immensely.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I don't like the album that much as a whole, but Get A Grip is good and I Won't Cry For You, Forbidden and Kiss Of Death are amazing.

[taxidriver1974]

What is wrong with red hair?

I've always wanted to like Forbidden a lot more, but there's nothing on it that Sabbath had ever NOT done before, with the exception of the rap section on the lead off track. There is a couple of very good songs on it, with the best being held off usual releases. Other than IT, Rusty Angels is the best song on the album, hands down.

I too have tried and tried to love this album, but apart from a few tracks, I just can`t get into it that much. I spoke to Tony Martin a few years ago, and he doesn`t like it either. So if one of the artists involved can`t find any enthusiasm for it, what hope do we mere mortals have??

[Josef_K]

HELL YEAH! I just picked this up in a record store for a more than decent price :D finally I can abandon that overplayed, sucky quality youtube playlist of mine and enjoy this album as it is supposed to be enjoyed, LOUD on my stereo!!!

too bad I can't find a vinyl copy though... I don't even know if this has ever been released on vinyl :S no sources mention that so I guess not, such a shame... when they do a deluxe edition, if they make a remixed limited vinyl version, I would pay A LOT for that :D you hear that Iommi? ^^

[Mauricio]

HELL YEAH! I just picked this up in a record store for a more than decent price :D finally I can abandon that overplayed, sucky quality youtube playlist of mine and enjoy this album as it is supposed to be enjoyed, LOUD on my stereo!!!

too bad I can't find a vinyl copy though... I don't even know if this has ever been released on vinyl :S no sources mention that so I guess not, such a shame... when they do a deluxe edition, if they make a remixed limited vinyl version, I would pay A LOT for that :D you hear that Iommi? ^^

It was released on limited vinyl here in Brazil in 1995. Since 1998 I'm trying to get myself a copy and until now I couldn't find one in good shape for a decent price.

There's info of the release here:

http://www.sabbath.se/Discography/forbiddenvinylLP.html

[Josef_K]

It was released on limited vinyl here in Brazil in 1995. Since 1998 I'm trying to get myself a copy and until now I couldn't find one in good shape for a decent price.

There's info of the release here:

http://www.sabbath.se/Discography/forbiddenvinylLP.html

oh, thanks for the info! can't believe I missed that, I often visit sabbath.se :S well I got the russian copy of Cross Purposes at least and I saw another one on a record fair recently so why not? I might stumble upon this as well.

[scorpio 2000]

Iommi was holding back on this cd. I think he got sick of putting his best work on a cd and nobody even knowing the album was released on such a tiny label like I.R.S. The Headless Cross, Tyr and Cross Purposes are examples of that. Forbidden was not Iommi"s best work. When i found out Ernie C was going to produce it, me being a Body Count fan, i was very disappointed when i heard it. I thought it was going to be heavier.

[Adam]

First that comes to my mind when I think about the album is that it is dark

[Smthrz]

I like the FORBIDDON album....was a good tour.......

[666]

please, add me to fan list. IMO this is one of the best Martin ERA albums.

This album is reincarnation of Sabbath 70-72 with raw/sludge sound and i love it. Also i love Ice-T work here.

not for aesthetics

[Wicked Cricket]

RUSTY ANGELS - I liked this song a lot, but hated the way it was produced. It's got a very Van Halen like high energy bouncy/chunky riff to it, that should have jumped right out at you on the record, but didn't, the worst part is the solo at the end of the studio version is completely buried in the mix. Anyway, I've copied a live version of the song that starts out with Tony's "Die Young" intro, slightly altered, and the song just cooks, high energy that didn't quite translate on the studio version. Notice the ending solo, building to a great cescendo, ala "Dirty Women". In many ways, the TM era Sabbath was the most versatle and actually delivered more surprises in the set lists than either the Ozzy or Dio lineups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ml3...eature=related

[MichaelWayne]

I don't like the album that much as a whole, but Get A Grip is good and I Won't Cry For You, Forbidden and Kiss Of Death are amazing.

I'm more partial to Sick and Tired. His opening drum sequence is very reminiscent of Heaven In Black. And Iommi's solo at 1:50 is so badass.

[Smthrz]

I liked the album....much better then Tyr....which to me is the weakest of all eras of Sabbath....Like the Forbiddon tour also.....

[Joe Siegler]

In case you guys didn't see the news from my Born Again news post...

One good bit of news I can announce. I did inquire about the other album in Black Sabbath's history that's had a long standing "issue" with the original mix. That's 1995's Forbidden. While a contract hasn't yet been signed for the Tony Martin IRS albums, I'm told they will be released "in due course", but.. The fun thing is that Tony Iommi is doing a new mix of the Forbidden album (they do have the tapes for that) inbetween some other projects. Forbidden is an album that usually ranks near the bottom of people's favorite Sabbath album lists. While I don't pretend it's the best, it really deserves better than it's long standing reputation has placed it. I'll be VERY curious to see a new mix of that, and see what people might think of the songs then.

[fondula]

This should make for an interesting remix, yes, depending on the direction that is taken. The current version of the album is rather dry, so if it is decided to "produce" the album by wettening it up and making it bigger-sounding, then the difference will be stark.
I am wondering if there are tracks (by "tracks" I don't mean songs here, I mean "tracks" in the recording sense) that were left off, including guitar solos for example, that may be used which weren't the first time.... that would be really cool.

[MachX]

My mamma always said 'if you can't say something nice.....'

[Jupz]

I actually think Forbidden is Sabbath's best album cover :(

[Ochlocracy]

I actually think Forbidden is Sabbath's best album cover :(

That just made my day.

[cwilder86]

A lot of unnecessary posts piling up in this thread...

Anyways... Even I didn't like Forbidden very much the first few times I listened to the album, but it grew on me and I don't think it's really all that bad. I mean it's far down on my list as far as ranking all the Sabbath albums, but definitely not the worst. And at least for me, there's not really any Sabbath album that's completely bad to the point that I can't enjoy some parts of the albums.

Some standout tracks for me...

The Illusion Of Power (Yes, even with Ice T's appearance I still like this song. Very doomy)
Get A Grip
I Won't Cry For You
Kiss Of Death

[scorpio 2000]

Forbidden is not their best album but its not their worst either. Tony was holding back on that album. The biggest problem was his riffs sounded very generic. I think he was saving his better stuff for Ozzy (which never happened) or Dio. When Richie Blackmore first left Deep Purple he used to hold back too and put his better stuff on the Rainbow albums. Another problem was that cd sounded so low in mix. It should have been compressed alittle bit more. I tell you what, Forbidden sounds better on u-tube than it does on cd.

[Jupz]

That just made my day.

I don't see whats wrong with it lol

[Ochlocracy]

I guess the colours and the awkward position the skeleton's in makes it look weird.

[Jupz]

On second thought it may not be my favourite, but it would be up there. I've always loved paintings.

[Never Satisfied]

RUSTY ANGELS - I liked this song a lot, but hated the way it was produced. It's got a very Van Halen like high energy bouncy/chunky riff to it, that should have jumped right out at you on the record, but didn't, the worst part is the solo at the end of the studio version is completely buried in the mix. Anyway, I've copied a live version of the song that starts out with Tony's "Die Young" intro, slightly altered, and the song just cooks, high energy that didn't quite translate on the studio version. Notice the ending solo, building to a great cescendo, ala "Dirty Women". In many ways, the TM era Sabbath was the most versatle and actually delivered more surprises in the set lists than either the Ozzy or Dio lineups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ml3...eature=related

I loved that version and posted it on my fb. Thanks! I'd kill a free man for the entire show!!

[EDTRADER]

I loved that version and posted it on my fb. Thanks! I'd kill a free man for the entire show!!

9-9-1995 Hala Arena, Poznan, Poland
Setlist Children Of The Grave (fades in), Neon Knights, The Shining, The Wizard, Get A Grip, Headless Cross, Rusty Angels, When Death Calls, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (incomplete). This is a GREAT!!!!!!! show to have. Very awesome sound quality and performance. Im not sure why I like this so much but I listen to it all the time.

Also checkout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjIX...eature=related
Live video of I Wont Cry For You 6-16-1995 Sweden Rock Festival aka Bellevueparken Karlshamn, Sweden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AVTp...eature=related
Kiss Of Death Live Video 10-25-1995 Sporthallen, Umea, Sweden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McPij...eature=related
Get A Grip Live Audio with extended ending 7-7-1995 World Music Theater, Tinley Park, CH

[cwilder86]

9-9-1995 Hala Arena, Poznan, Poland
Setlist Children Of The Grave (fades in), Neon Knights, The Shining, The Wizard, Get A Grip, Headless Cross, Rusty Angels, When Death Calls, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (incomplete). This is a GREAT!!!!!!! show to have. Very awesome sound quality and performance. Im not sure why I like this so much but I listen to it all the time.

Also checkout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjIX...eature=related
Live video of I Wont Cry For You 6-16-1995 Sweden Rock Festival aka Bellevueparken Karlshamn, Sweden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AVTp...eature=related
Kiss Of Death Live Video 10-25-1995 Sporthallen, Umea, Sweden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McPij...eature=related
Get A Grip Live Audio with extended ending 7-7-1995 World Music Theater, Tinley Park, CH

Iommi's tone sounds MASSIVE on that Kiss Of Death video!

[scorpio 2000]

The live version of Rusty Angels sounds better than the studio version. Tony did alot more jamming.