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  1. #1
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    Default Dehumanizer sessions - Tony Martin question

    Hello fellow Sabbath fanatics.

    Hope someonecan help me out with the following question.

    As most of you know Tony Martin was called in during the Dehumaizer sessions. This was in between Ronnie's recording and the actual release. Tony Martin did some sessions with the band but did not re do all the vocals of the album but just a few if I have my facts right.

    My question is if Cozy Powell was still part of the band during these Tony Martin recordings?
    When will you show me a sign
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  2. #2

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    Tony's sessions were done during the summer of 1991 and Cozy's horse accident only happened in October, so : yes, Cozy was still there.
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
    "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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    Are you saying some of the vocals on Dehumanizer are Tony Martin? It all sounds like Dio to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcollier View Post
    Are you saying some of the vocals on Dehumanizer are Tony Martin? It all sounds like Dio to me.
    Its all Dio on the Dehumanizer we know. Dio left in the middle of the sessions and Iommi brought in Tony to re-record Dio's vocals. Dio returned, so the Tony Martin Dehumanizer tapes got shelved.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Tony's sessions were done during the summer of 1991 and Cozy's horse accident only happened in October, so : yes, Cozy was still there.
    So there is a slight chance these recordings are amoung the famous box of tapes which where required by certain people after Cozy's passing...

    I know enough. Thank you.

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    Maybe but probably not. I would think Tony Iommi would have possession them. Just my beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjen View Post
    So there is a slight chance these recordings are amoung the famous box of tapes which where required by certain people after Cozy's passing...

    I know enough. Thank you.

    Maybe but I don't think so. I believe they'd have been release on bootlegs a long time ago if it had been the case.
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
    "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Maybe but I don't think so. I believe they'd have been release on bootlegs a long time ago if it had been the case.
    Most likely yes. But I still keep having small hopes for it. The last year, with the last one being two weeks ago, new recordings of the Cozy tapes are released on cd and saw the day of light. The last one being a Rainbow title but still a new one from the Cozy tapes.

    A little hope is all I need. If I have to set all my hopes on Tony Iommi I can better forget it
    Last edited by Arjen; 01-24-2010 at 03:39 AM.
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  9. #9
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    I didn't even know this existed, 'till I read this thread. I looked it up on ebay and they have a Dehumanizer 3cd sessions for $75. Has about 6 different versions of Computer God and some unreleased tracks. Many of them instrumental. Supposedly only 250 were issued. Might be something that was made by some guy in his basement.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedZero View Post
    I didn't even know this existed, 'till I read this thread. I looked it up on ebay and they have a Dehumanizer 3cd sessions for $75. Has about 6 different versions of Computer God and some unreleased tracks. Many of them instrumental. Supposedly only 250 were issued. Might be something that was made by some guy in his basement.
    It sure is. This 3 CD set has been circulating trading in networks on the internet for free for years now. And, by the way, in case you wonder, these sessions are only those from the Dio / Iommi / Butler / Powell period. Great material, but nothing from Tony Martin though.
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
    "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

  11. #11
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjen View Post
    So there is a slight chance these recordings are amoung the famous box of tapes which where required by certain people after Cozy's passing...
    The story goes that Cozy's girlfriend at the time sold those tapes to a Japanese bootleg collector. It's possible she didn't have the Dehumanizer tapes, or it's equally as possible that she was threatened by Iommi's management over the issue once the first thing happened. Who knows?

    Yeah, I'd love to see that. I'd also love to see the Ray Gillen version of Eternal Idol released properly when they get to "Black Box III: All the other stuff", but I can't see Iommi going for that, either.

    This is all personal speculation on my part - I have NO FACTS to back any of this up.
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  12. #12

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    I'd be surprised if this ever sees the light of day unless a bootlegger gets ahold of it and puts it out. Especially given the current line up, I think it's safe to say Tony Iommi wouldn't want it released.

    Is Martin supposed to be on all the songs? I am not a Martin hater and think he is a talented vocalist, but can't imagine him matching Dio on several of these songs like "Computer God" and especially "I" which is one of the best performances of Dio's career, in my opinion.

    Cozy Powell did make no secret of his disagreement with Iommi sacking Martin and going with an "American" lineup.

    Overall, I do think Dehumanizer is unjustly maligned.

  13. #13
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    I've been told it was close to final stages of recording when a tift arose-
    Martin did the vocals for the entire LP,but the tift was settled-thus the Martin tracks were not needed-
    & RJD never knew,few people did,seeing how the LP was recorded-TM should comment on this himseld since only a handful of people know & it's all second hand @ this point

    ---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

    No certainly not,If Iommi was going to share royalties w/Ray Gillen it would have been when he was alive-

    & who would release it anyway?
    same label that released Fused?
    forget that one-

    ---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

    Dehumanizer 3 cd demos are w/RJD-thats just sellers ignorance-

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by blowonthejug View Post
    Martin did the vocals for the entire LP
    TM should comment on this himseld since only a handful of people know & it's all second hand @ this point
    This is correct. Tony Martin re-recorded all of the vocals for the album. I have him on tape, from an interview I did with him in 2003, saying that this was indeed the case.

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    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    From what I can gather, Tony Martin still has some bad blood about a lot of parts of his time in Black Sabbath. I can't see him talking about one of the points in the history that was not good towards or for him. In fact, that happened 18 years ago. I don't think I've ever heard Martin talk about it once myself. I can't see him wanting to now, really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMobRules View Post
    and especially "I" which is one of the best performances of Dio's career, in my opinion.

    I agree. WHAT a performance!

  17. #17
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryHeart View Post
    I agree. WHAT a performance!
    Am I the only one who doesn't care for I? I always felt the song was a bit of a snooze.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't care for I?
    maybe

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't care for I? I always felt the song was a bit of a snooze.
    If you don't like that riff Joe than I'm a bit lost here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't care for I?
    With all due respect, I think you are, sir. The riff is solid.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedZero View Post
    With all due respect, I think you are, sir. The riff is solid.
    Riff's OK. I just don't care for the lyrics.
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    The lyrics are very "LeVay" like in their meaning, in other words... very cheezy. Great track though.

  23. #23
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    hmm, "I" live in 92, with the crowd singing along, is a great song. As for the lyrics, I always thought it referred to the demon "legion" from Mark 5. Legio is many and says it's very powerfu, but the "hoiy outlaw" says that's a lie, the real power is One.

    So the song would be a dialog:

    Legion: "I'm the maker of war"
    Holy Outlaw: "You'll never be stronger than me"

    This is a personal interpretation like we all may have, so I don't even begin to pretend it's even half-close to what the lyrics' author had in mind. It's just to say why I like the song, lyrics and all.

  24. #24
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    I just visited Japan and a few more new releases from the famous Cozy tapes were for sale. I STILL keep my naive hopes for a Dehumanizer release with Tony Martin

    This time a double cd from Over the Top sessions
    COZY POWELL - OVER THE TOP SESSION(2CD)Ultimate compilation of the "Over The Top" Session STEREO SBD(from Original Masters)
    Disc 1
    Making Of "Over The Top" Album
    Studio demos recorded at Central Sound Studio, London, UK in 1979

    1. Over The Top 2. El Sid 3. Heidi Goes To Town #1 4. Heidi Goes To Town #2
    5. Sweet Poison #1 6. Sweet Poison #2 7. Sweet Poison #3 8. The Loner #1 9. The Loner #2

    Cozy Powell - Drums Jack Bruce - Bass Don Airey - Keyboards Max Middleton - Electric Piano
    Bernie Marsden - Guitar

    Bonus Track : Don Airey's K2 Tales of Triumph and Tragedy Rough Mix & Demos
    The original demo tracks recorded at Sarm Studios, London, UK 1988

    Taken from the original cassette tapes dated "21st June 1988" as handwritten on the tape box.

    10. K2 Overture 11. Whiteout 12. Close To The Sky

    Don Airey - Keyboards Cozy Powell - Drums Keith Airey - Guitar Laurence Cottle - Bass

    Disc 2

    Studio live rehearsals

    1. Killer 2. Sweet Poison 3. Theme One #1 4. Theme One #2 5. Tickets For Waterfall #1
    6. Tickets For Waterfall #2 7. The Loner

    BBC In Concert
    Recorded Live at Paris Theatre, London, UK 9th January 1980

    8. Opening 9. Theme One 10. Sweet Poison 11. Member Introduction 12. The Loner
    13. Tickets to Waterfall 14. Killer

    Cozy Powell - Drums Jack Bruce - Bass & Vocal Clem Clemson - Guitars Don Airey - Keyboards
    Max Middleton - Electric Piano

    Bonus Track
    15. Dance With The Devil

    The final track recorded at The Mill Recording Studio, Cookham, Berkshire, UK in 1992.
    Taken from the master DAT tapes dated "3rd July 1992" as handwritten on the tape box.


    and a Cinderella album
    CINDERELLA featuring COZY POWELL - LONG COLD WINTER SESSION(1CD)
    Taken from the original master cassette tape(maxell XL II) belonged to Cozy Powell, handwritten "Tom's Tape" on the tape index sheet. STEREO SBD(from Original Master Tapes)
    1. Intro. 2. Coming Home 3. Gypsy Road #1 4. Gypsy Road #2 5. If You Don't Like It
    6. Fallin' Apart At The Seams 7. Take Me Back 8. The Last Mile 9. Long Cold Winter
    10. Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone) 11. Fire And Ice

    Tom Keifer - Electric & Acoustic Guitars, Vocal Eric Brittingham - Bass
    Cozy Powell - Drums

    STEREO SOUNDBOARD RECORDING
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  25. #25
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    Here are my two cents on this subject:

    1) I don't believe Tony Iommi will ever permit Tony Martin's version for Dehumanizer to be released. I think he will keep it boxed in respect for Ronnie Dio.

    2) The tapes does exist and Geoff Nicholls also have it with him. Word from M William's, Geoff's great son: "I heard it and It does kick ass".

    3) Tony Martin have sang all tracks but got dismissed after that.
    Can't you see what I see
    You and I victims of Their word
    As the master of power
    Try to poison our world
    ----- Eternal Idol ~ 1987

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rules View Post
    Here are my two cents on this subject:

    1) I don't believe Tony Iommi will ever permit Tony Martin's version for Dehumanizer to be released. I think he will keep it boxed in respect for Ronnie Dio.

    2) The tapes does exist and Geoff Nicholls also have it with him. Word from M William's, Geoff's great son: "I heard it and It does kick ass".

    3) Tony Martin have sang all tracks but got dismissed after that.
    AH! I havent talked to Mr.williams in so long,and you too ray How have you been?
    P.S. they do exist haha i never heard them but Geoffs nephue has talked to me alot about them
    R.I.P. Ronald Padavona,Ronnie James Dio,DIO,Legend.

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    Well Ray Gillen's version of The Eternal Idol is getting released so maybe any things possible now? I dunno... I really really would LOVE to hear the Tony Martin Dehumanizer. I don't see it topping Dio's version of it, but I'd really just be curious to hear what Tony Martin would sound like singing over such dark and heavy music since it's heavier than any Martin era Sabbath album.
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWayOut View Post
    AH! I havent talked to Mr.williams in so long,and you too ray How have you been?
    P.S. they do exist haha i never heard them but Geoffs nephue has talked to me alot about them
    Doing great, mate. Still living in Brazil and alive lol
    Can't you see what I see
    You and I victims of Their word
    As the master of power
    Try to poison our world
    ----- Eternal Idol ~ 1987

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilder86 View Post
    I really really would LOVE to hear the Tony Martin Dehumanizer. I don't see it topping Dio's version of it, but I'd really just be curious to hear what Tony Martin would sound like singing over such dark and heavy music since it's heavier than any Martin era Sabbath album.
    I agree totally, it would be an intriguing prospect to get to compare these 2 versions side by side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilder86 View Post
    Well Ray Gillen's version of The Eternal Idol is getting released so maybe any things possible now? I dunno... I really really would LOVE to hear the Tony Martin Dehumanizer. I don't see it topping Dio's version of it, but I'd really just be curious to hear what Tony Martin would sound like singing over such dark and heavy music since it's heavier than any Martin era Sabbath album.
    It seems to me that one of the reasons for the Gillen version of EI getting an "official" treatment is the fact that it's been floating around in bootleg circles for so long; this way they can "beat the boots" so to speak and get in on some of the money that is being spent on this product -- if some people are willing to spend $70 for a bootleg then it should be easy to get them to spend $20 on a "finished version". Also it's another reason to pick up the new version of Eternal Idol, which is not one of the more "high-profile" albums from the catalog. Where Dehumanizer is concerned, I'd imagine that there isn't much trouble getting people to buy it since Mr. Dio is on it... plus there are not boots of the Martin version of it already being monetized. You and I may wish to hear it but I think it's going to take more than that for it to be dragged out of the vault.

  31. #31
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilder86 View Post
    Well Ray Gillen's version of The Eternal Idol is getting released so maybe any things possible now? I dunno... I really really would LOVE to hear the Tony Martin Dehumanizer.
    I wouldn't' count on that - even with the RG EI being released now. I mentioned this to the folks who are responsible for putting together the packages. They are aware of it, but laughed when I said it should be presented.

    I'm sure it will be presented to Iommi for clearance, but I'd bet the farm it won't be allowed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    I wouldn't' count on that - even with the RG EI being released now. I mentioned this to the folks who are responsible for putting together the packages. They are aware of it, but laughed when I said it should be presented.

    I'm sure it will be presented to Iommi for clearance, but I'd bet the farm it won't be allowed.
    Shame... Guess our only hope is that someone out there has it and it will one day be leaked to the internet...
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    I wouldn't' count on that - even with the RG EI being released now. I mentioned this to the folks who are responsible for putting together the packages. They are aware of it, but laughed when I said it should be presented.

    I'm sure it will be presented to Iommi for clearance, but I'd bet the farm it won't be allowed.
    As I said above, I wouldn't count on TM's version for Dehumanizer to be released. It was a far guess last year and now, after Ronnie's passing, I don't think Iommi would like to "spoil" his legacy releasing another singer's version for his songs.
    Can't you see what I see
    You and I victims of Their word
    As the master of power
    Try to poison our world
    ----- Eternal Idol ~ 1987

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    I wouldn't' count on that - even with the RG EI being released now. I mentioned this to the folks who are responsible for putting together the packages. They are aware of it, but laughed when I said it should be presented.

    I'm sure it will be presented to Iommi for clearance, but I'd bet the farm it won't be allowed.
    So with this in mind ..... lets all keep our hopes for a future bootleg release hahaha
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjen View Post
    So with this in mind ..... lets all keep our hopes for a future bootleg release hahaha


    It may take some time but it will be out , and it shall be earth shattering !
    The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rules View Post
    1) I don't believe Tony Iommi will ever permit Tony Martin's version for Dehumanizer to be released. I think he will keep it boxed in respect for Ronnie Dio.
    I seem to recall Tony Martin mentioning that he had rewritten the lyrics, but I would have to check my tapes. That being the case, however, I don't think releasing this alternate version could in any way be seen as disrespectful towards Dio.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rules View Post
    2) The tapes does exist and Geoff Nicholls also have it with him. Word from M William's, Geoff's great son: "I heard it and It does kick ass".
    Sons, daughters, cousins or what have you, unless they were present when this stuff was put to tape, I remain skeptical. I spoke in person with Geoff Nicholls in 2005 and while he did mention having the original Forbidden recordings, he suspected that Iommi might be the only one with the Martin version of Dehumanizer, which is the same thing that Martin told me back in 2003.

    In any case, here's hoping that the recordings be eventually made available, by hook or by crook.

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