Where's the Flute on Born Again?

[Gus]

It does a long time that i'm questioning about it! On the back of the booklet of Born Again, it's mentioned :Tony Iommi guitars,guitar effects, FLUTE....But where is the flute on the album??? I've tried several times to hear the flute but i don't identify the instrument... Does anyone gets an idea on what song or particular part the flute is?

[MarcStitz]

Im with you man, I was wondering the same myself. My only guess is stonehenge but I don't know.

[Petoria000]

There was a thread on this once before. Joe Siegler asked Tony Iommi and even Iommi didnt know.

I read somewhere its on "The Dark". It has a lot of effects run through it.

[Gus]

Listen Marc,i've had a doubt on ZERO THE HERO during the solo with the mixed notes and it's a very weird solo and all is possible. And Born Again maybe, but i 'm not able to identify precisely. Hot Line when Gillan sings " OOH BABY, take me to the hot line"??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[David86]

It could be buried somewhere in the title track. It's the only one I could imagine a flute in!

[UnderTheSun]

[ QUOTE ]
It could be buried somewhere in the title track. It's the only one I could imagine a flute in!

[/ QUOTE ]

That was what I was going to say [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Icy Sun]

On the back on the Born Again booklet, Tony Iommi is credited with guitar, guitar effects, and flute. I thought maybe it would be on Stonehenge or The Dark, them being the ambient tracks, but I didn't hear it on either of those, or any other song on the album. Am I just not paying close enough attention? Where's the flute?

[Joe Siegler]

Title track, or so I'm told.

[Vytautas]

I can definitely hear it on Born Again. Tony plays staccato notes.

[Icy Sun]

Thanks, I'll take a closer listen to that track.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

I heard something faint during the second chorus, don't know if it's the flute or just keys. Hm.

[Hell_Awaits]

During what part of the song is the flute being played?

[Icy Sun]

During what part of the song is the flute being played?

Like I said, I think I heard something during the second chorus, but I'm not sure. If someone else would give a definitive answer would be helpful.

[GillanTheHero]

I haven't managed to hear any flute on the studio album. My guess is that it's buried in the mix..
But on some bootlegs one can clearly hear Geoff play flute tunes on his keyboards during the song Born Again

[Vytautas]

I hear it during the verses, but it could be Geoff's keyboard.

[missedexit]

How about on Stonehenge? Sounds like a flute being electronically treated?

[Nightskald]

How about on Stonehenge? Sounds like a flute being electronically treated?

I'm pretty sure Stonehenge was all keyboard apart from the bell at the end of it.

I also think that Born Again is the only song on the album which has the flute on it - and it is buried in the mix and used sparingly - just a few notes here and there across the verses. Given the way it sounds, I don't think it's keyboards in this instance.

[Ray Rules]

Which brings me...

Do you guys know that Ozzy played flute (or harmonica, don't remember exactly) on Quartz's first album? Don't know what Quartz is? Geoff Nicholl's first pro band :D

[OZZYIRONMAN]

Tony only thought he was playing a flute. Ozzy dropped by the studio and put a mirror in front of him and he was startled to see he was playing air flute.

[Nightskald]

Which brings me...

Do you guys know that Ozzy played flute (or harmonica, don't remember exactly) on Quartz's first album? Don't know what Quartz is? Geoff Nicholl's first pro band :D

I don't know if Ozzy played flute at all - but I would believe he played harmonica.

He did on "The Wizard" and he still does - he plays Harmonica on a track off Alice Cooper's "Along Came a Spider" album.

Didn't Tony Iommi also produce the first Quartz album?

[Joe Siegler]

I merged two old "Born Again Flute" threads together, and then added this, because I have some new "information".

A week ago or so I asked Tony Iommi's manager this, and got a reply this morning.

Can you ask Tony this? Legendary question that nobody seems to have a straight answer to. I'd like to use the answer in my story about the launch of the album when it comes out.

Q: Where the heck is the flute on Born Again? You're credited as having played the flute, but almost 30 years of listening to that, and I can't find it!

Here's the response:

Dear Joe,
Asked Tony yesterday, he didn't have a clue, but was adamant it wouldn't have gone on if he hadn't.
Sorry we can't put you out of your misery

[cwilder86]

I merged two old "Born Again Flute" threads together, and then added this, because I have some new "information".

A week ago or so I asked Tony Iommi's manager this, and got a reply this morning.



Here's the response:

Wow... It's like the "How many licks does it take to get to the center of the tootsie pop?" commercial...

The world may never know...

where the flute is in Born Again...

If Tony Iommi doesn't know, no body does.

[Wicked Cricket]

I think it's one of Geezer's or Ian's jokes.. or maybe the producer, but "BS" produced it right? Either way, all kidding aside, Tony's got great musical integrity, why would he allow credit for an instrument no one can hear, so we don't even know if he's playing it or not, or how he's playing it... I think they were pretty stoned and drunk half the time making this one.... it was stress release form what happened with Dio, a half ass effort all in all...except Bill of course, who was newly sober...funny because Solitude has flute on it but i don't think there's any mention of it on the album.. of course there's the mistake of crediting Tony for writing After Forever.. which apparently he didn't... bottom line, you can't detect any flute on that album, it's one of those freaky album liner note things... like Tony's bag pipes on the SBS album... there's more instruments credited to everyone and their mother on that album it's amazing.. they even credited Geezer for "nose" as an instrument... I think they were just having fun really...

[gl797]

I just went through the whole album:

It is without a doubt a flute played through effects throughout "The Dark". It's the very first thing you hear.
If you listen carefully in some spots you can hear it being blown into., especially right before the wailing guitar starts.

So I guess you can detect it after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCxB9BTcyo

Iommi also plays the flute in "Solitude", it's much more traditional sounding than "The Dark". Nice solo at the end too..hmm maybe this is why he didn't stay in Jethro Tull?
He played very well...of course.

[Wicked Cricket]

I just went through the whole album:

It is without a doubt a flute played through effects throughout "The Dark". It's the very first thing you hear.
If you listen carefully in some spots you can hear it being blown into., especially right before the wailing guitar starts.

So I guess you can detect it after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCxB9BTcyo

Iommi also plays the flute in "Solitude", it's much more traditional sounding than "The Dark". Nice solo at the end too..hmm maybe this is why he didn't stay in Jethro Tull?
He played very well...of course.

It seems a little pretentious that on what arguably is Sabbath's crudest album, there's mention of Tony playing the flute..

I won't argue you hear a flute "thru effects" on The Dark, but my argument is it should have either been called Flute effects, not the flute, or not even mentioned..because anyone can do something like that, it's not really playing...besides you can make string and wind sounds on a keyboard. It's like plucking strings with echo on FX , anyone can do it... can someone tell me where the bag pipes are played on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, the album..? the amount of instruments credited to all the band on that album is unprecendented... I don't know if the CD lists them, but my original vinal had a lyric sheet with it, and each song had the instruments and who layed them... you'd be amazed at the instruments listed... btw, Tony plays flute on Looking For Today also... I can't rememeber what song was credited to Tony for bag pipes... maybe it's on the internet.

[EDTRADER]

Played flute on a never before heard unreleased song from Born Again!!!!! O Man im listening to this and it rocks!!
Back To Reality time, Listening to The Dark I would place my best guess that this has flute on it.

[Hell_Awaits]

This topic rules, as does the flute.

[gl797]

can someone tell me where the bag pipes are played on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

They are hard to distinguish with the orchestra playing at the same time but they are in
"Spiral Architect".
They are more prominent in certain parts of the song. Played by Iommi..how much talent can one person have? The song wouldn't be the same without them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5ykpT0mM_c

[scorpio 2000]

The flute probably didnt make the final mix.

[spiral_architect101]

Flute is on the track "Born Again" during the outro. If I recall correctly the track fades out with an Iommi solo. The flute comes in during the solo and plays a repeating few note phrase. It's quite low in the mix and not easily heard. Not sure if there is flute elsewhere on the album. That is the only track I ever noticed it on.

Gotta love Sabbath and how as a metal band they weren't afraid to put flute on an album in the early 80's. Of course back in the 70's they put everything from horns (Breakout), to strings (She's Gone), to glockenspiel (Supertzar), to Moog (Who Are You & Sabbra Caddabra), to jew harp (Sleeping Village), to timpani (Children Of The Grave), to wood block (Supernaut), to harpsichord (Fluff), to tambourine (Sabbath Bloody Sabbath), etc. on their albums. However, during the 80's I think most veteran metal bands were much less musically adventurous than what they did during the 70's output. Thus, I don't think it was very typical for metal bands to put a flute on an album in the early 80's.

[Gardener]

They are hard to distinguish with the orchestra playing at the same time but they are in
"Spiral Architect".
They are more prominent in certain parts of the song. Played by Iommi..how much talent can one person have? The song wouldn't be the same without them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5ykpT0mM_c

Actually, according to a 1990 interview, Tony Iommi admitted that there was no bagpipes on "Spiral Architect". He tried to play them but couldn't get anything musical out of them. Then Geezer jokingly tried to emulate the sound of the bagpipes with his nose. This isn't featured on the record either Both "instruments" were mentioned in the album's credits as a joke.

[gl797]

imo

Last three posts are partially incorrect.

People have the info now and can decide for themselves.

[Gardener]

They are hard to distinguish with the orchestra playing at the same time but they are in
"Spiral Architect".
They are more prominent in certain parts of the song. Played by Iommi..how much talent can one person have? The song wouldn't be the same without them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5ykpT0mM_c

After listening carefully to the song and the orchestral section several times, I believe it's the contrabass you are mistaking for bagpipes. There are definitely no wind instruments in there, only a string section.

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

imo

Last three posts are partially incorrect.

People have the info now and can decide for themselves.

How can three posts giving only one piece of information each be "partially incorrect"

And I haven't found the original interview yet but, from the Black Sabbath FAQ : "When later(1990) interviewed by Pete Sarfas about the bagpipes, Tony Iommi admitted that there are no bagpipes on Spiral Architect because he couldn't actually get anything musical out of them despite several attempts. Pete also mentions: No Geezer did not really play his nose either!"

I would have a tendency to believe Tony Iommi on this (especially when no one manages to hear the damn bagpipes anyway).

[David86]

Dear Joe,
Asked Tony yesterday, he didn't have a clue, but was adamant it wouldn't have gone on if he hadn't.
Sorry we can't put you out of your misery

HAHAHAHAHAHA What the fuck!? I can't believe I missed that post! The man is a genius, I can actually hear him saying "Aw bloody hell, I've no idea". Brilliant!

Flute is on the track "Born Again" during the outro. If I recall correctly the track fades out with an Iommi solo. The flute comes in during the solo and plays a repeating few note phrase. It's quite low in the mix and not easily heard. Not sure if there is flute elsewhere on the album. That is the only track I ever noticed it on.

I'll second this. You got to crank it up and listen to it with earbuds AND it's gotta be the CD or a high quality rip - I don't think you can hear it on an ordinary mp3. It's on the right channel. It's pretty low but if you pay attention it's there!

[gl797]

With the use of keyboards it's almost impossible to tell what is what.

But

He definitely played flute, Solitude proves that beyond a doubt.
As for Born Again, using his statement "if it is listed then it must be on it".
I'm convinced that the main instrument in The Dark is a Flute through effects. It is very unique.

I don't expect Iommi to remember every detail of all of his recordings, his catalogue is enormous and the man probably did more in one year than we do in a decade.
Not to mention that judging from video interviews I've seen from the Born Again time period, especially the MTV interview of Iommi, Geezer and Gillan. The drug usage must have been high on the list of priorities.

as for bagpipes, they are listed and I don't see bagpipes as being a joke, they've been used in Rock music. "Hands" and "Nose" are funny though.. bagpipes, not so much.
I'll need to see/hear Iommi himself say that they weren't on there. Link the whole interview if you have it.
But then again he couldn't even remember a 1983 time period so expecting him to remember something from 1973 is a bit much imo.

[Gardener]

as for bagpipes, they are listed and I don't see bagpipes as being a joke, they've been used in Rock music.

I know. AC/DC used them, for example. But on these tunes, you can actually HEAR them, they're not just listed.

"Hands" and "Nose" are funny though.. bagpipes, not so much.

Maybe not funny "HaHa", but notice that they listed an instrument that no one (except you, apparently) has been able to hear on the record and we're still talking and arguing about it nearly 40 years later. Don't you think it's a good trick ?

I'll need to see/hear Iommi himself say that they weren't on there. Link the whole interview if you have it.

Unfortunately, I don't have it. It was in an old issue of Pete Sarfas' Black Sabbath Association Society newsletter. I'll try to track it down if I can but if someone has it, it could save everuyone quite some time. Or maybe Joe could ask Tony or Geezer to settle this once and for all ?

But then again he couldn't even remember a 1983 time period so expecting him to remember something from 1973 is a bit much imo.

Not remembering on which track you played a few notes of flute is one thing, but we're talking about bagpipes here ! These aren't exactly the most common of instruments !

[gl797]

yes and apparently nobody can hear the flute in "The Dark" either except for the fact that it's the main instrument of the song. As in the very first thing that you hear. It wasn't just a "few notes".

In "Spiral Architect" I hear what could very easily be bagpipes holding sustained notes, which btw wouldn't be a hard thing to do...but as I've stated it could possibly be many other things. I'm not buying the "couldn't get anything out of them" line. I'm pretty sure Iommi could have handled it.

I'm tired of that discussion and I'm not commenting on it further, the world may never know...or care. The question was which songs are these instruments supposed to be in. I have answered that part of it.
Time to move on until someone can prove or disprove this without a doubt and I don't see that ever happening.

[svullo]

Iommi ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwBFKEG7r4Q

[Nightskald]

I don't believe that "The Dark" is Tony playing the flute - Geezer used a lot of effects on the recording of the Born Again album and it's mentioned here - http://www.black-sabbath.com/interviews/butler96.html

It's my belief that "The Dark" is actually Geezer playing about with the effects unit on his bass- and maybe some post-production effects afterwards. The flute is definitely on Born Again (the song) and it is not keyboards, but it's buried under the guitars, keys and vocals.

[gl797]

I don't believe that "The Dark" is Tony playing the flute - Geezer used a lot of effects on the recording of the Born Again album and it's mentioned here - http://www.black-sabbath.com/interviews/butler96.html

It's my belief that "The Dark" is actually Geezer playing about with the effects unit on his bass- and maybe some post-production effects afterwards. The flute is definitely on Born Again (the song) and it is not keyboards, but it's buried under the guitars, keys and vocals.

it's not a bass with effects..it's a flute with effects. Period.

The bass synth is in "Stonehenge".

[Wicked Cricket]

Arguing over where the flute is being played on what's hands down the crudest album Sabbath ever made, and for me, the worst... is almost laughable. Like I stated previously, it comes across as very pretenious to even mention an instrument as elegant as the flute on an album where unless you use your imagination, or someone in the know told you it was there, you wouldn't hear it! Tony's flute playing ability, most prevelent on Solitude is not going to pay the bills if you know what I mean... very very basic flute ability to say the least.