Forbidden Remix & Martin era Remasters

[Freddy the O]

Am I the only one who is disappointed that Headless Cross won't be getting a remix as well?

That album is actually very frustrating to me; it features some of the best post-Dio songwriting, but the production is awfully dated. The drums sound incredibly dull, the keys are way too loud and everything is drenched in cheesy 80's reverb. I realise that it'll always sound like an album from 1989, but I think a new mix would help the album get the recognition it sorely deserves.

Make no mistake, though. I still think it's awesome that the Tony Martin-era albums will finally be widely available again.

[KazolOrajia]

Am I the only one who is disappointed that Headless Cross won't be getting a remix as well?

That album is actually very frustrating to me; it features some of the best post-Dio songwriting, but the production is awfully dated. The drums sound incredibly dull, the keys are way too loud and everything is drenched in cheesy 80's reverb. I realise that it'll always sound like an album from 1989, but I think a new mix would help the album get the recognition it sorely deserves.

Make no mistake, though. I still think it's awesome that the Tony Martin-era albums will finally be widely available again.

Honestly, I don't even think Forbidden needs a remix. It sounds fine how it is to me. Headless Cross is the most dated Sabbath album in my opinion, due to both the production and songwriting, and a remix would be cool, but I don't mind either way.

[TheElfoid]

They're not gonna change the cover art. It is what it is.

Can you say that with much certainty? A lot of reissues have alternative artwork.

Examples:
* Iron Maiden (when catalogue was digitally remastered in 1998, they gave Iron Maiden a new version of the original artwork, corrected a colour error on The Number of the Beast where the background had been blue instead of grey and made major changes to No Prayer for the Dying's artwork as well)
* Megadeth (gave new cover art to the remaster of Killing Is My Business and Risk as part of their remaster series, as well as standardising the Megadeth logo and tweaking font sizes on the album names on the others)
* Motley Crue (Shout at the Devil, when reissued on CD, had new artwork. The original artwork was returned when the remastered versions of the albums were released)
* Whitesnake (Whitesnake had updated artwork for the 20th anniversary edition)
* Michael Jackson (special edition of Off the Wall has a pretty different set of artwork, and then there was that whole Thriller 25 thing)
* Deep Purple (Machine Head reissue)
* Kiss (Creatures of the Night was altered on I think three occasions)
* Disturbed (remixed/remastered version of The Sickness gave artwork a bit of a facelift)

I wouldn't say an update is likely, but certainly not impossible, surely?

[Joe Siegler]

They haven't changed the artwork for any other of the releases (except possibly Master of Reality, but that has a tortured history of cover art - see my discog page for more). I can't see them doing that at all, no.

[EDTRADER]

Tony Martin answered by saying there's only A couple things that could be used as extras. And he doesn't see the re-releases happening. http://edtradernet.weebly.com/tony-m...interview.html

[Joe Siegler]

Tony Martin answered by saying there's only A couple things that could be used as extras. And he doesn't see the re-releases happening. http://edtradernet.weebly.com/tony-m...interview.html

To be honest, Tony Martin's not in control of them. Given he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder about Sabbath (rightfully so, I might point out)... I don't know if his "not seeing" them coming out is any definitive word or not.

I am convinced it will happen. It would have been out for now, had it not been for Tony's cancer, and the reunion stuff. Nobody knows when at this point.

[The Wretch]

Man I wish they would get these albums reissued already! My old vinyls and cds have seen better days, and while I have managed to pick up new cd copies, I think those albums deserve the same treatment as any of the others. Frankly, in some cases they don't even need much in the way of remastering, just some nice packing and a few bonus tracks. Tyr and Headless Cross in particular, they are such great albums. The reissue of The Eternal Idol was fantastic. But then, its one of their most undervalued albums anyway IMO.

Anyone else think Forbidden is highly underrated and misrepresented? I've been going back to it a lot lately, and I'm enjoying it more than ever. I think I might even prefer it to Cross Purposes in places. The likes of Can't Get Close Enough, Rusty Angels, Get A Grip and the title track are monumental.

[Joe Siegler]

It would appear that ONE TRACK from this era will show up again. Anno Mundi is being released as part of the WhoCares full album charity release. Check out this link below for more details on that.

I am attempting to find out the mastering source for Anno Mundi - whether it's the previously (somewhat old) CD mastering, or it's new remastering. If the latter, than it would imply to me that more work was done on these four studio albums than I was aware of. Will keep on top of this, and update this thread when I have more info.

http://www.black-sabbath.com/2012/05...um-coming-out/

UPDATE: I was told on May 10th that Anno Mundi has NOT been remastered. Additionally I was told "Tony has had little time to work on the IRS remasters, not that he'd do much to Tyr anyway". So there you go.

[Neon Knights]

It would appear that ONE TRACK from this era will show up again. Anno Mundi is being released as part of the WhoCares full album charity release. Check out this link below for more details on that.

I am attempting to find out the mastering source for Anno Mundi - whether it's the previously (somewhat old) CD mastering, or it's new remastering. If the latter, than it would imply to me that more work was done on these four studio albums than I was aware of. Will keep on top of this, and update this thread when I have more info.

http://www.black-sabbath.com/2012/05...um-coming-out/

UPDATE: I was told on May 10th that Anno Mundi has NOT been remastered. Additionally I was told "Tony has had little time to work on the IRS remasters, not that he'd do much to Tyr anyway". So there you go.

Wow what a strange choice to have Anno Mundi added in there! Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic track but did Ian Gillan have anything to do with it? Didn't Tony Martin come up with all the lyrics and track names for TYR?

From reading the article you posted, I can't understand what this album is. There is some Glenn Hughes stuff in there too which I find strange! Has all of this stuff been re-recorded or is it some kind of compilation album?

Anyway no matter how strange it is, it's fantastic news to see TYR getting the respect that it deserves. I honestly thought Tony had forgotten all about that album seeing as he didn't say much about it in his booK!

By the way what does the "not that he'd do much to Tyr anyway" bit mean? I can't understand it.

[Joe Siegler]

Meaning there's no behind the scenes work he'd need to do to clean it up for release.

[Von Bek]

Forbidden does indeed feature at the lower end of my Sabbath album list, but it's still one I enjoy and listen to. A remix would be really interesting, but they MUST remove the rap from Illusion of Power.
I think the album has some really good riffs and lead solos, and is definitely not S**t, as Tony Martin described it.

[Van Sabbath]

Forbidden does indeed feature at the lower end of my Sabbath album list, but it's still one I enjoy and listen to. A remix would be really interesting, but they MUST remove the rap from Illusion of Power.
I think the album has some really good riffs and lead solos, and is definitely not S**t, as Tony Martin described it.

I definitely agree that Forbidden isn't garbage. The title track was one of the first Sabbath songs I really got into. But as much as I understand why so many people want them to get rid of the rap on The Illusion of Power, I disagree. Deleting the rap would be equivalent to how George Lucas edited the Star Wars movies, all it does it make longtime fans angry. I see the rap as a novelty, and I don't think it would be fair to get rid of it just because people don't like it. It's a part of the song. And a part of the history. That's just my opinion on the topic.

[Pink Led Rush]

Anymore news on this? I absolutely HATE that this keeps getting put off! These are the albums that Martin is most known for yet you can't even get them.

[Joe Siegler]

Anymore news on this? I absolutely HATE that this keeps getting put off! These are the albums that Martin is most known for yet you can't even get them.

Last time I asked was when I found out one track from Tyr was being used on the Iommi/Gillan album out last month. Was told then "With all the cancer stuff and the reunion stuff, this has gone to the back burner".

While they didn't explicitly tell me as such, I can't imagine Tony will work on this while the album with Ozzy is being worked on. I expect that album will have to come out, and then the tour finishes, and Tony comes down from all that to start working on this again.

I know some work WAS Done before the reunion stuff started, so it wouldn't take AS long. I've been told over and over it will happen, but let's face it. As much as we want it, it's a low priority. Honestly, as I've said before, it's the era of the band that's gotten the least attention. That he's still gonna do it anyway is a positive, despite how slow it's taking.

[Pink Led Rush]

Last time I asked was when I found out one track from Tyr was being used on the Iommi/Gillan album out last month. Was told then "With all the cancer stuff and the reunion stuff, this has gone to the back burner".

While they didn't explicitly tell me as such, I can't imagine Tony will work on this while the album with Ozzy is being worked on. I expect that album will have to come out, and then the tour finishes, and Tony comes down from all that to start working on this again.

I know some work WAS Done before the reunion stuff started, so it wouldn't take AS long. I've been told over and over it will happen, but let's face it. As much as we want it, it's a low priority. Honestly, as I've said before, it's the era of the band that's gotten the least attention. That he's still gonna do it anyway is a positive, despite how slow it's taking.

Thanks Joe, I figured as much really, I understand it, but as you know it's just so frustrating when you think about it. Hopefully Iommi will still work on it in his spare time, I doubt it, but at this point we can all hope. I would just hate to have to wait another year or two on it. They started this series in 09 and it's 12 and we still don't have the whole series yet. Don't mind my rambling though, Im just a frustrated fan. haha

[Jordan]

Whenever they are released are they going to be released in the way all the others have (deluxe packaging, upwards of $40)? or what?

[Van Sabbath]

Whenever they are released are they going to be released in the way all the others have (deluxe packaging, upwards of $40)? or what?

I would assume so. And $40.00 is pricey for those things man. You can get them from great sellers on amazon in the $15-$20 range.

[Jordan]

I would assume so. And $40.00 is pricey for those things man. You can get them from great sellers on amazon in the $15-$20 range.

Some of them. Heaven and Hell is still $30+ for some reason, even though it only includes live footage. http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Deluxe-...nd+hell+deluxe

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

Some of them. Heaven and Hell is still $30+ for some reason, even though it only includes live footage. http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Deluxe-...nd+hell+deluxe

You might be able to save a little on Heaven & Hell (if not a lot) by buying from Amazon UK direct, it's currently £13.34 which converts to just over $21. Of course you'll have postage on that, but I would be surprised if it was as much as $9. H&H seems unusually expensive, all the other Deluxe Editions are in the £10-11 range.

[Jordan]

You might be able to save a little on Heaven & Hell (if not a lot) by buying from Amazon UK direct, it's currently £13.34 which converts to just over $21. Of course you'll have postage on that, but I would be surprised if it was as much as $9. H&H seems unusually expensive, all the other Deluxe Editions are in the £10-11 range.

And also for some reason it doesn't ship out for 2-4 weeks.

[EDTRADER]

I wonder if the other mixes for Forbidden are still on tape somewhere. Ernie C later expressed that the version out there is somewhat different than his total version. Reaction from the IRS Record guys was mixed about the mix. The final say bosses said it was too dry and had too much of a Nirvana spin to it. So some other guy started to remix it giving it that 80's sound. But that quickly turned to confusion. So he was called back to England and to patch up the work. Brian May came down to the studio and listened to Ernie's work. He liked the sound and told Iommi that this sounded like what Sabbath did 20 years ago. So the third mix ended up going on sale. However not everything got to be fixed to Ernie's orginial. So there are three different mixes of the album.

[Pink Led Rush]

I wonder if the other mixes for Forbidden are still on tape somewhere. Ernie C later expressed that the version out there is somewhat different than his total version. Reaction from the IRS Record guys was mixed about the mix. The final say bosses said it was too dry and had too much of a Nirvana spin to it. So some other guy started to remix it giving it that 80's sound. But that quickly turned to confusion. So he was called back to England and to patch up the work. Brian May came down to the studio and listened to Ernie's work. He liked the sound and told Iommi that this sounded like what Sabbath did 20 years ago. So the third mix ended up going on sale. However not everything got to be fixed to Ernie's orginial. So there are three different mixes of the album.

Huh, quite interesting...

[SweetSymptom]

I wonder if the other mixes for Forbidden are still on tape somewhere. Ernie C later expressed that the version out there is somewhat different than his total version. Reaction from the IRS Record guys was mixed about the mix. The final say bosses said it was too dry and had too much of a Nirvana spin to it. So some other guy started to remix it giving it that 80's sound. But that quickly turned to confusion. So he was called back to England and to patch up the work. Brian May came down to the studio and listened to Ernie's work. He liked the sound and told Iommi that this sounded like what Sabbath did 20 years ago. So the third mix ended up going on sale. However not everything got to be fixed to Ernie's orginial. So there are three different mixes of the album.

Weren't there rough mixes released from Cozy Powell's tapes by a Japanese bootleg cd company?

[EDTRADER]

Those were demos/rough mixes. But they were not done to be released.

[SweetSymptom]

Those were demos/rough mixes. But they were not done to be released.

Yeah, I figured. Still, they may be a guideline as to how it was supposed to sound.

[Headless Tyr]

I'm glad to see there are so many fans of these albums. I also hope Tony finishes this project real soon, though judging by Joe's comments this could take longer than we're all hoping for.

[Joe Siegler]

I'm glad to see there are so many fans of these albums. I also hope Tony finishes this project real soon, though judging by Joe's comments this could take longer than we're all hoping for.

I can't see how Tony will find the time to work on these until after they're done with whatever comes after the release of the new Ozzy era album in April.

[Headless Tyr]

I can't see how Tony will find the time to work on these until after they're done with whatever comes after the release of the new Ozzy era album in April.

That's sad but true, and understandable of course. By the way, I don't understand why Tony Iommi must do this job himself. Can't it be done by someone with skills that he completely trusts? After all, most remasters or remixes of albums are done by people that weren't even in that particular band (correct me if I'm wrong).

[MichaelWayne]

I can't see how Tony will find the time to work on these until after they're done with whatever comes after the release of the new Ozzy era album in April.

Hopefully if they re-release Headless Cross, they'll add Cloak and Dagger, and Some Kind of Woman from the Black Moon single.

[Charger]

Hopefully if they re-release Headless Cross, they'll add Cloak and Dagger, and Some Kind of Woman from the Black Moon single.

Some Kind Of Woman was already included on the Eternal Idol Deluxe Edition.

[EDTRADER]

There's the Headless Cross edit version. Devil & Daughter LP single had a interview with the band. There's the chance that tapes of the band's Hammersmiths shows are laying around somewhere. Assuming we get any extras at all that is

[SabbathsValhalla]

I can't wait for these remasters! Its annoying how long its taking and I know all the stuff with tony and the new album but ahh its annoying and one thing I wouldn't mind is a listen to Tony Martin's demo's of Dehumanizer as well as extra tracks and demo's during the other Martin Era albums

[paulmelv]

I can't wait for these remasters! Its annoying how long its taking and I know all the stuff with tony and the new album but ahh its annoying and one thing I wouldn't mind is a listen to Tony Martin's demo's of Dehumanizer as well as extra tracks and demo's during the other Martin Era albums

more chance of Bill Ward playing lead guitar on the new album than ever hearing Martin's dehumanizer demos me thinks

[BibleBlack]

If they're indeed remixing Forbidden, I hope they add some more reverb to it.
The songs themselves just sound like 80's metal to me, but the mix didn't exactly reflect that in my ears.

[John Sposato]

IRS are part of Parlophone Label Group, which Universal sold to Warner Music Group and is to be approved by Brussels. Since Rhino are part of Warner maybe we should ask them, though Dehumanizer was already reissued by them in North America as that was a seperate deal.

[Joe Siegler]

Doesn't matter. Rights are with Tony.

[Never Satisfied]

Doesn't matter. Rights are with Tony.

As they should be. Especially as opposed to being held by some archaic record company. I'd rather have no reissues at all than have some record company sharks pump out some crap product without the artists permission....and honestly?... In my opinion None of the Sabbath reissues that I have seen so far have been Great products, certainly not anything to hold ones breath over. I Hate to say that because Sabbath is my favorite band but dozens of much less successful bands have had reissues that are Vastly superior (anyone ever heard of Uriah Heep?) to the Sabbath ones. I would seek out the originals at this point if I didn't have them already.

[SabbathsValhalla]

Well now that Sabbath's new album 13 is a month and a few days away, I was just wondering if there has been any more news about these VERY LONG AWAITED deluxe editions and remasters of the Tony Martin era, because its annoying they are not out yet. So what's the lastest news then \m/

[Van Sabbath]

Well now that Sabbath's new album 13 is a month and a few days away, I was just wondering if there has been any more news about these VERY LONG AWAITED deluxe editions and remasters of the Tony Martin era, because its annoying they are not out yet. So what's the lastest news then \m/

I would be surprised after the whole 13 hype if the deluxe editions still happen. If there is any news on it, Joe will be the first to let us know.

[OzzyIsDio]

Well now that Sabbath's new album 13 is a month and a few days away, I was just wondering if there has been any more news about these VERY LONG AWAITED deluxe editions and remasters of the Tony Martin era, because its annoying they are not out yet. So what's the lastest news then \m/

I think a box set of the Martin era is due.