King Crimson

[RobotOfDecay]

Who here is a fan? I've only really scratched the surface with their discog as I only have Red, The Power to Believe and Discipline. There seems to be to me though to be four disctinct phases to their career:
1) In the Court of the Crimson King era - I think with Greg Lake singing, very early 70's prog sounding
2) Lark's Tongues/Red era - John Wetton/Bill Bruford, more intense heavy prog
3) Discipline early 80's era - Adrian Belew joins, Talking Head meets Philip Glass plus great pop songs
4) Mid-90's - Heavy Crimson, part 3 line-up meets modern sounds

I like the heavy sounds of Red but have become more of a fan of the Adrian Belew era, just amazing guitar interplay between him and Robert Fripp and great singing from AB. Difficult band to get into but when you do, it does just hit you.

What are your favourite Crimson records and why?

[Billy Underdog]

I really love the albums Red & In The Court Of The Crimson King, mainly because they (are fantastic albums, but also because they) were a big part of the soundtrack of me and most of my best friends now getting to know each other. i would say you've pin-pointed your 4 eras pretty much allright, even though i would put court of into the same era as larks tounge - red. (larks tounge was actually the hardest (or most boring) album to get to know from this era for me...)

80's era i'm not really that into although i like some of the "hits", like elephant talk...
don't know much from the 90's and the projeKcts-era, but Power To Belive is also a real good album.

you should check out "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp" which was a kind of whimsical pre-crimson with Peter Giles instead of Greg Lake.

And i've always wondered..; why is Crimson never mentioned as one of the forefathers of Metal? Red is as heavy as anything else in 74...

Edit:
Man, i'm going to listen to Court Of right now, then i'm going to spend the next few days re-discovering all 70's-crimson.. been a long time...

---------- Post added at 06:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 PM ----------

sorry, got a bit confused there and mixed larks tounge with in the wake of poseidon. both are ofcourse great albums, but i remember poseidon as harder to get a grip on.. (not larks tounge)

[RobotOfDecay]

Thanks for the recommendation on the pre-Crimson album mate, sounds interesting. I defintely agree they should be recognised as one of the forerunners of metal. Red is damn heavy for 1974, just for the opening instrumental alone! As a long time fan of Tool and having recently gotten into Discipline I can see where they got a lot of their ideas from now also!

[kamikazetom]

I love King Crimson especially the 80's trio of LP's (Discipline, Beat, 3 of a perfect pair) loved the interplay between Adrian Belew & Robert Fripp on these LP's & thought this was their strongest lineup with Tony Levin on Bass & Stick & Bill Bruford on Drums - simply a fantastic live band as well (Check out the live in Japan video or the DVD Neal Jack & Me.

For the 70's LP's you can't go wrong with Lark's Tongue in Aspic, Red, or the Court of the Crimson King - all great LP's & I agree that Red is one of the heavier LP's from the 70's

The double trio was very cool & great live - really wish they would have continued after Thrak instead of goign back to a 4 peice - the live B'boom CD is great

The projekcts are interesting but don't have the full sound of the King Crimson band - I did see Projekct 3 live in a small club (Poor David's) here in Dallas & it was very cool to see Robert Fripp from 10 feet away playing his soundscapes.

I do like The Construction of Light & Power to Beleive but not quite as much as the 80's LP's.

Have you checked out all of the bootleg releases from Discipline Global Mobile? Some of them are fantastic - really recommend Absent Lovers - live in Montreal great CD (This is the 80's line-up)

[RobotOfDecay]

kamikazetom, thanks for the recommendations - I think I'll go for that 'Absent Lovers' CD. Their discog is so bewildering it helps to get some pointers!

[Axeman77]

Only listened to the first album so far, great band...Is it just me or do In The Court Of The Crimson King (song) sound a bit like July Morning by Uriah Heep?

[777Jep]

My favorite ones are "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", "Red", and "THRAK".
They are the heaviest albums for me. Of course, I love all albums (except "Islands"), but these three ones are for me the best of KC.
Has any one ever heard the last album, "A Scarcity of Miracles" ?

RobotOfDecay : I totally agree with you about the phases. You can add one by the way, : 2000 - 2003 : Some kind of electronic music, with electronic drum from Mastelotto.

Did you listen to the ProjeKcts ? I love "Masque" from ProjeKct Three.

[Monster Boy]

I'm a fan. Their first album, all of the albums from the Larks Tongue-Red period and Discipline are my favorites. Thraak was pretty good from what I remember too, will have to give that another listen. I was pretty disappointed by The Construktion of Light, just seemed to be a retread, nothing new to offer. Also not a big fan of Three of A Perfect Pair, their attempt at being a new wave band.

When people talk about the history of heavy metal you rarely hear 21st Century Schizoid Man mentioned, but that raw distorted riff, distorted vocals, and certainly the lyrics "Death's Seed, Blind Man's Greed, Poets starving, children Bleed" and lets not forget "Politician's funeral pyre, innocents raped with napalm fire". Perhaps a big influence on Geezer? (Think War Pigs, Electric Funeral, Hand of Doom for instance).

[Billy Underdog]

When people talk about the history of heavy metal you rarely hear 21st century schizoid man mentioned, but that raw distorted riff, distorted vocals, and certainly the lyrics "death's seed, blind man's greed, poets starving, children bleed" and lets not forget "politician's funeral pyre, innocents raped with napalm fire". Perhaps a big influence on geezer? (think war pigs, electric funeral, hand of doom for instance).

spot on, dude!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0j4WkoDrtg
Norwegian "jazzmetal"-band Shining with Grutle Kjelson from Enslaved on vocals.. mind you; this band is much, MUCH better live than on record... i would even rather recomend checking them live than listen to this link...

[RobotOfDecay]

My favorite ones are "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", "Red", and "THRAK".
They are the heaviest albums for me. Of course, I love all albums (except "Islands"), but these three ones are for me the best of KC.
Has any one ever heard the last album, "A Scarcity of Miracles" ?

RobotOfDecay : I totally agree with you about the phases. You can add one by the way, : 2000 - 2003 : Some kind of electronic music, with electronic drum from Mastelotto.

Did you listen to the ProjeKcts ? I love "Masque" from ProjeKct Three.

777Jep, I haven't heard any of the ProjeKcts before - are they all instrumental stuff? Good point about the more electronic phase in the early 2000's too.

Axeman77, you should check out their later stuff too, it's almost like a different band but still great. Here's one from Discipline (1981) that's a pretty good example of their style in this period:

[777Jep]

Yes, the ProjeKcts are all instrumental stuff. You've just one song where you can hear a voice, "The Deception of the Thrush", but it's a MIDI/kind of vocoder voice played by Trey Gunn.

Here is an exemple of ProjeKct Three, my favorite "song" :

[RobotOfDecay]

^^ Thanks, I enjoyed that - not what I expected at all, a lot more mellow, did not realise it was live either until the end!

Here's my favourite King Crimson instrumental (albeit from limited knowledge but this is a great track):

[kamikazetom]

Hey Robot - I know what you mean about their discography being a bit much - at one point in time I was a member of the King Crimson Collectors club so have about 30 of those CD's in addition to the normal ones - some of the old live recordings are pretty good some are a bit rough but they are worth checking out

Here are some of my Favorite songs by them - Axeman definitely check out their later stuff

Thela Hun Ginjeet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVvb...eature=related
Red - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4kbk...eature=related
Dinosaur - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLRT...eature=related
Thrak - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLiD0...eature=related
Elephant Talk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35U0h...eature=related

Just Curious - have any of you ever checked out the California Guitar Trio? - these guys used to play with Robert Fripp int he League of Crafty Guitarists & are amazing in their own right - check them out if you get a chance - they have toured with Tony Levin sitting in & watching them play elepohant talk on accoustic guitars was amazing - here's some vids

Tocatta & Fugue in D minor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdEAccE7BMs
Train to Lamy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN7nA-jZc7A
Bohemian Rhapsody - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Th9xB9TehQ

[777Jep]

Robot: Yeah, I love Level Five too ! Level Five may be considered as a fifth part of the Larks' Tongues in Aspic series. So I think you like the 4 parts of LTIA

(from Larks' Tongues in Aspic) LTIA Part I : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWp430Ik4tU
(from Larks' Tongues in Aspic) LTIA Part II : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJPX9eaWPk
(from Three of a Perfect Pair) LTIA Part III : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHuUtzuZIpc
(from The ConstruKction of Light) LTIA Part IV, part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCySCpszKv4
part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m13G...eature=related
part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOVXs...eature=related
coda : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRlEN...eature=related

BTW, I love Into the Frying Pan.

[-E5150 StarWanderer-]

I'm only familiar with a marginal amount of their back cataloque, mainly the Starless & Bible Black album. I thought they have some good songs, but they are often bit too progressive to my liking.

With King Crimson it's the same case as with numerous other bands: I strongly intend to look more closely into their cataloque at some point in the future.

[RobotOfDecay]

^^ kamikaze & Jep, thank you very much for those links - I fully intend to go through all of them but my broadband is being slow this evening, appreciate it nonetheless And kamikaze, I haven't heard the California Guitar Trio before but it sounds intriguing, especially as I play in an acoustic trio sort of thing for fun so will check that out definitely!

[Billy Underdog]

With King Crimson it's the same case as with numerous other bands: I strongly intend to look more closely into their cataloque at some point in the future.

that's always a problem, ain't it..?
if you like starless & bible black you should really check out Red. starless is kinda the pre-runner, red's even got the song starless (&bible black), originally intended for it's namesake album, but not perfected until the latter...

The story goes; John Wetton had written the tune, but Fripp didn't find it good enough for the album. Then Bruford wrote the middle-section with the bass in 13/8 and Fripp's 2-tone solo (name another guitarist able to play a genius guitar-solo with only two tones...) and it was accepted for the next album (red)...

[Billy Underdog]

just came to think about it (while listening to the album)

the guy on the cover of In The Court of the Crimson King actually looks more PARANOID than schizophrenic... (the song-title 21st Century Schizoid Man comes from the name of the painting used for the cover)

[Billy Underdog]

@ Monster Boy

Finally got around to check out that McDonalds & Giles-album i was talking about in some thread.
It was pretty cool, as it's been described which i said, it's the symphonic/progressive element of Court Of, but without the darker "metalish" elements, but i found it listenable.

Think about it as "Happy-Crimson".

Ofcourse, what was most reminiscent of KC was Michael Giles' genious drumming.

[devstorm]

I haven't delved in to their discography extensively but the Crimson King album is my fav from what Ive heard so far. Also dig Starless & Bible Black. Discipline is cool as well. Some great suggestions here to invesigate. Thanks for the tips.

[Monster Boy]

@ Monster Boy

Finally got around to check out that McDonalds & Giles-album i was talking about in some thread.
It was pretty cool, as it's been described which i said, it's the symphonic/progressive element of Court Of, but without the darker "metalish" elements, but i found it listenable.

Ofcourse, what was most reminiscent of KC was Michael Giles genious drumming.

Was that "The cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp"? I vaguely remember listening to some of that eons ago and being rather meh about the whole thing, maybe I'll give it another listen. I agree about Michael Giles. His drumming on ITKOTCK is phenomenal, Mayor McCymbal (I mean that in a good way) I wonder if a "favorite drummer...OF ALL TIME!!!" thread has been done on here. He'd be one of mine for sure.

[Billy Underdog]

Was that "The cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp"? I vaguely remember listening to some of that eons ago and being rather meh about the whole thing, maybe I'll give it another listen. I agree about Michael Giles. His drumming on ITKOTCK is phenomenal, Mayor McCymbal (I mean that in a good way) I wonder if a "favorite drummer...OF ALL TIME!!!" thread has been done on here. He'd be one of mine for sure.

No, i was talking about the album Ian McDonald and Michael Giles did after Court Of, when they'd left the band (well, Giles was a session-player on Poseidon, with his brother as Greg Lake had left to join ELP).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_%26_Giles

The Cheerful Insanity Of G,G&F was the pre-runner to Crimson. More Psychedellia than Prog. I think there's even some demo's to some Court-tunes done by G,G&F available trough the King Crimson Collectors Club-series.

[Monster Boy]

^^^Aha! There once was a time I could read, you did say Mcdonald and Giles didn't you? Looks interesting, apparently it has a famous drum beat in it that hip hoppers have pilfered. Who would have guessed? My quest begins.

[Billy Underdog]

apparently it has a famous drum beat in it that hip hoppers have pilfered.

There's a hip hop-tune with a sample of Gentle Giant's Funny Ways too. Sounded pretty weird as it's not exactly the flat four usually used in hip hop...

[777Jep]

Has someone already listened to "A Scarcity of Miracles" ?
This album is just so... WOAH ! IT'S INCREDIBLE. I really can't describe this music...

[stoneman8]

If I had to choose 2 all time favourite bands of mine it would be Black Sabbath and King Crimson. Then i tried to get my Black Sabbath buddy going on King Crimson (so we could compare the bands), but no success apparently. I probably mostly like about 8 albums, I think it best to start of with red/ITCOTKC, then Discipline/ ITWOP, then Islands/starlessnbibleblack/, then finally end with Larks tongues/Lizard, but those are the main masterpieces imo, but this band is harder to get into obviously then BS as you can easily just listen to albums 1-6 to start with, and you like most of the stuff instantly, but Crimson takes more effort for the most part

[Thelemech]

I do not know why but I find The Crimson King to be boring beyond belief. though I must admit I only own In the Court Of....
I really want to hear Red since Billy keeps bringing it up and also because a lot of you say that it is proto-metal sounding.
It is strange because I like quite a few prog groups like Yes, Early Genesis, Caravan, Camel, Jethro Tull, The Strawbs and various others, but I cannot seem to appreciate King Crimson. I will have to seek out their other albums (especially Red) before I right them off.

[Billy Underdog]

I really want to hear Red since Billy keeps bringing it up and also because a lot of you say that it is proto-metal sounding.

[Billy Underdog]

[Billy Underdog]

This epic starts so mellow you almost can't hear Fripp picking the strings, it sounds like he's just touching them and they make sounds, and it's ending with John Wetton sounding like he's beating the crap out of his bass. Magnificent!

[Thelemech]

Now you see I liked all four songs posted by RP and Billy (thanks guys) much more than Court Of....
I especially liked the song One More Red Nightmare - you were right Billy, Red is a great album (based off what I have heard)- I think I may have to pick it up in the near future. I am glad to find something I like from KC since they are so critically acclaimed by both the critics and their fans. I really should have looked up some King Crimson on YouTube myself - just never bothered - since I was and still am disappointed with In The Court Of....

Did not John Wetton play in Roxy Muzak later on? Or am I totally thinking of someone else?

[Billy Underdog]

Did not John Wetton play in Roxy Muzak later on? Or am I totally thinking of someone else?

Both Roxy and Bryan Ferry. Also with Uriah Heep, Wishbone Ash, Steve Hackett and lots of others. Worst thing was Asia though...



With this one you've heard 4 out of the 5 songs on the album. Also a great one. The 5th one, Providence, is a weird avant-garde improvisation and might not be to everyones liking, but i find it has it's moments, especially if you're patient enough to sit trough the first 4-5 minutes. (and it helps to be stoned out of your mind... )

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

Also, glad to hear you liked OMRN. Can never decide if i like that one or Red the most, but the drumming on OMRN is just killer.

[Monster Boy]

The album Starless and Bible Black was also a bitchin' record. Here's one of my faves from that one, "Fracture", awesome buildup throughout to an explosive finish, amazing guitar work throughout.

[Thelemech]

Hey!

...just joking RP!

[Josef_K]

I only own their debut album and love it. I've listened to random songs from "In the Wake of Poseidon" a few times but it never seemed that interesting. Also I've heard a few songs from Red and Discipline, they seem like interesting albums, I will check them out sometime... Apart from that I listened through "Lizard" once when I was bored and tired in the middle of the night, man what a fascinating album! I really must give that one more listens, something I guess applies to all albums by KC except "In the Wake of Poseidon". A very interesting band, though I've been spending my money on other bands up until now so I can't really explore them at the moment ^^ I will soon though.

[Billy Underdog]

I've listened to random songs from "In the Wake of Poseidon" a few times but it never seemed that interesting.

Apart from that I listened through "Lizard" once when I was bored and tired in the middle of the night, man what a fascinating album!

I find In The Wake... merely a bleak copy of In The Court... (even the name itself is an evident copy ). It's not BAD, but not really great either. Cat Food i think is a great tune.
Lizard and Islands are kinda some "twilight-zone", where Peter Sinfields "sonic experiments" were taking a bit overhand for my taste, but they sure have their moments.
Then ofcourse the Bruford/Wetton glory-days of Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Starless And Bible Black and Red are a great era.
The 80's "New Wave/Funk"-thing with Belew and Levin i never got the grip on, but ofcourse there's some good stuff there too, Elephant Talk f. ex.

From there i haven't really checked out too much until The Power To Belive, which was kinda meh, but it do have some great heavy moments...

[clockwork]

Frippertronics: lest we all forget

[Sporkman GB]

Yeah, Red is a fantastic album, though I don't care for Providence. Too bizarre for me. That's actually the only one I think I've listened to in full but they've got plenty of other great stuff I've heard. From what I've heard, KC is the only prog band to become as big as they did yet never compromised, i.e., even Yes or ELP went for pop crossover successfully; to my knowledge, Crimson never really did.

[Josef_K]

Been listening to some various songs lately, Thrak, Discipline, Red, Islands... all those albums seem like great stuff, I will surely plan to get these as soon as my economy lets me ^^