Tony Martin: "Forbidden Didn't Really Work"

[BSParanoid]

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/uncateg...t-really-work/

Sorry if this is a re-post, I didn't see it anywhere. Article talks about the possibility early on of Forbidden becoming a "Run-DMC type of album." In other words, "rap Sabbath." It sounds like that proposal came from within the band rather than from the record company, did I read that correctly?

[Totentanz]

I read it more as record company pressure. But whatever, I think TM's take on it is accurate - it doesn't really work as it is (the whole album that is, not just the rap part), but had they expanded the rap elements across the album even more it would definitely have just gotten worse.

Any time Sabbath have ever tried to force "cool" they've always got it spectacularly wrong in my eyes. They are actually sublimely cool only when they don't realise it...

[Josef_K]

I just can't believe Tony Iommi would ever even consider replacing what he had with Martin and Cozy with some kind of new rap-oriented direction. Not saying he was one of the driving forces behind this or anything, just that he should have protested like hell imo. The rap part in "Illusion of Power" works, but that's it. It's not good, it's not horrible, it just works. In my opinion this album has two things that are in general very good, those are Iommi's riffs and Tony Martins lyrics and feeling in his vocals. I actually think he sounds like he has a cold or something, and as if he is sick and tired of everything. But when he actually sings "I'm sick and tired" and sounds like he is, I still think the album captures a certain feeling, and it is interesting for me to listen to this album.

Therefore I would say it is a really good album, I enjoy it a lot. The mix is horrible though, especially on the drums, but I would never ever say that any album is bad just because the people playing on it are drifting apart. Look at NSD and TE, those are incredible albums because they deliver the same feeling as Forbidden, really not a positive feeling but a true feeling. I would never take true feeling for granted, imo most records being made don't tell anything about the persons themselves or what they want to say, often simply because they have nothing to say. Maybe that's just me ^^

[Fused1990]

I read the interview and i got the impression that TM really didn't know whether he hated it or not, i feel at best he thought it was ok. I liked the title track and I have a lot of time for Get a Grip too, but thats pretty much as far as it goes for me with this album. I think the rapping in The Illusion of Power is utter tripe and down right insulting to Black Sabbath and its fans, it stuns me to think a full 'Rap Sabbath' album was even considered!
In fact the whole song Illusion of Power is one of Sabbaths worst imo. I don't even think TM shines on it.

[Ray Rules]

I don't know about you guys, but for me the band sounds like they knew the whole thing was going down the drain. I mean, if you read carefully the lyrics, you get that. Kiss of Death, for example... It sounds like a direct message from Tonys to Sharon Osbourne.

Now, it's a ABSOLUTE shame what Iommi (yes, him) did to Tony Martin. Guy is side with you for 10 years playing gigs awfully sick, acepted to play the farewell gig for Ozzy in 1992, even if he was FIRED a year before to be replaced by Dio (the guy who is was now "replacing" for the Costa Mesa farewell concert). The guy who dropped a Solo Album tour in Europe to return to Sabbath in 1994... Well, the guy who kept the motor rolling with Iommi... And he even acept the possibility to consider replacing him for a RAP SINGER?

Fuck, if that is not a major lack of respect, I don't know what it is. Don't tell me it was a record company pressure thing. If you respect your business associate, you must have the balls to say "stop this idiocy now."

[Totentanz]

Fuck, if that is not a major lack of respect, I don't know what it is. Don't tell me it was a record company pressure thing. If you respect your business associate, you must have the balls to say "stop this idiocy now."

I agree with you there. I was reading it as TM himself saying the idea was coming from the record company - but totally agree it should've been unequivocally shut down within the band, so TM could've gone into the sessions with no doubts whatsoever that he alone would be the main vocalist. I also agree it sounds like a band that knows it's approaching the end of the line... (with NSD it still turned out really cool in places, but with Forbidden not so much IMO)

[fondula]

Kind of sounds like "outvoted by the man with the biggest vote" to me.

[Josef_K]

I don't know about you guys, but for me the band sounds like they knew the whole thing was going down the drain. I mean, if you read carefully the lyrics, you get that. Kiss of Death, for example... It sounds like a direct message from Tonys to Sharon Osbourne.

Now, it's a ABSOLUTE shame what Iommi (yes, him) did to Tony Martin. Guy is side with you for 10 years playing gigs awfully sick, acepted to play the farewell gig for Ozzy in 1992, even if he was FIRED a year before to be replaced by Dio (the guy who is was now "replacing" for the Costa Mesa farewell concert). The guy who dropped a Solo Album tour in Europe to return to Sabbath in 1994... Well, the guy who kept the motor rolling with Iommi... And he even acept the possibility to consider replacing him for a RAP SINGER?

Fuck, if that is not a major lack of respect, I don't know what it is. Don't tell me it was a record company pressure thing. If you respect your business associate, you must have the balls to say "stop this idiocy now."

As much as I love Tony Iommi, I cannot do anything but agree with you here. I think the sad part might be that Iommi actually never thought Martin was such a good singer... I mean lots of people think he is the worst singer sabbath ever had, maybe Iommi agree with them? Of course I have no real arguments behind this, I'm just saying that I can never even begin to understand why Iommi did this to Martin. All sabbath singers had their time, and in the beginning of the nineties TONY MARTIN was the right singer for this band, not Dio, definitely not Ozzy and DEFINITELY NOT ICE-T.

[Ray Rules]

Martin had a "dated" voice? Well, maybe yes, but between 1987 and 1991, he was THE british voice, in my opinion. I don't think Tony didn't consider him a good vocalist. I think Iommi just had an old envy with Dio and Ozzy, like... "I started this whole thing and they are receiving more audience in their concerts than me". I mean, for a chap who used to play for more than 500 thousand people at California Jam, it had to be hard to play for a few thousands during the end of Cross Purposes tour.

Still, that is no excuse. Tony Martin never made any foul move toward Iommi, he was the tipical blue collar kind of guy, always there at 7 AM to work, no matter what, if it was raining or if he had a fever. Iommi had to take at least THAT in consideration and not treat TM like that.