Born Again should i buy it?

[Ozzy02]

Hello, I wanted to know what is everyones opinion on Born Again? Is it a good album? Is it worth buying or not? please let me know all Thinking about buying it seriously. Didn't at first was skeptical from the 30 sec samples that I heard. Then I watched live footage on youtube and changed my mind. I would like everyones opinion on this topic please. Thanks All.

[Josef_K]

Personally I am a big fan of every single album Black Sabbath put out, so yes, I find the album extremely worthy of buying. It's not the best album, the mix is very "either you hate it or you love it" (I hate it) but there are some wicked songs on that album. The title track is my favorite Black Sabbath song of all time, that's gotta say something. However, it depends a lot on what kind of music you like. I mean obviously you like Sabbath, but this album only carries fragments of early sabbath. You see, it is very doomy and heavy, but it's darker and most important, dark in a different way. "Born Again" is what I would call the only Black Sabbath release that has ever touched upon surrealism (read the lyrics for the title track and you will see my point). So if you are into mysterious and atmospheric yet dark and heavy music you should go for it. However:

- Don't buy it if you feel that you can't stand the mix
- Don't buy it if you feel that Ian Gillan's screams are "a bit too many" in Deep Purple

If you feel that way, I think there are other albums more worth it for you. After all, this is probably THE most "special" and "different" album Sabbath ever put out. It's just... strange... I know this though, I would never be able to learn how to live without it again.

[Ozzy02]

Josef_k, Could you describe The Tony Martin era albums "Forbidden" and "Cross Purposes" For me music style wise like you did with Born Again? Please cause I would like to know which is the better of the two? thanks.

[Josef_K]

Always glad if I can be of any help for a fellow Sabbath fan. As you might know, Cross Purposes is generally more appreciated than Forbidden. For me, they both represent a time in Sabbaths history that had great great music ideas but was dragged down by the fact that stone by stone the band was falling apart. Forbidden especially can easily be linked to Never Say Die or probably even more to Technical Ecstasy. One can (well at least I can) feel the uncertainty and bitterness in the music, that doesn't make the music itself bad but it certainly was a burden to bear for the musicians themselves.

Cross Purposes does have two very good things that are probably the reasons for it being held (today at least, it sold pretty bad when it was released) as one of if not THE best Martin era album. These two things are Geezer Butler playing on the album and Tony Iommi being extremely productive riff-wise. Someone on the forum claimed you had to look back as far as Vol. 4 to find an album to match Cross Purposes riff-wise, partly I agree. The album is very heavy, often seen upon as the "Martin-era Dehumanizer", one other reason for this is that just like he did with Dio, Geezer got Tony (Martin) to write about more down to earth stuff (or at least make it sound a bit more down to earth). Some people claim that makes Cross Purposes an inferior copy of Dehumanizer which is in my opinion madness. While GZR and Tony do their thing not that different, Tony Martin does have a very different approach that makes Cross Purposes very different compared to Dehumanizer. While Dio was just entering his mega-aggressive era with Dehumanizer, Tony Martin uses Cross Purposes to transform his epic lyrics and epic singing style into a very humble and... I want to say tormented style. He doesn't overdo it though, but he sounds much more personal on this album compared to "TYR" for example. He sticks to this path for "Forbidden".

Forbidden is, like Born Again, one of those very different albums. Not quite as different, but still weird and often overlooked, laughed at, spit on etc etc. I want to say one thing about this album though, it is very emotional. I sometimes do covers of Sabbath songs on the piano just cos I like to sing the lyrics (I suck at singing) and like to see what I can do with the song structure while still keeping the emotional core intact. I have covered two songs off Forbidden (Rusty Angels and I Won't Cry For You) but none from Cross Purposes. Tony Martin has stabilized his new singing approach here in my opinion, he delivers some incredible emotion in songs like "Kiss of Death", "I Won't Cry for You" and "Shaking of the Chains". However, I had hoped for more of a band feeling in this album since it's the awesome TYR line up reunited, the line up I had hoped could rebuild the Sabbath name (then dehumanizer came and crushed the dream into little bitsy pieces). I guess the reason for the lack of band feeling is all this crap about making a "rap-sabbath album". I don't know if Tony Iommi was smoking something back then (I guess not) but I really don't get how he could even think of that. The overly discussed very short rap part in the track "Illusion of Power" works, but the thing is that Tony Martin didn't even know if he was going to be the lead singer for Sabbath anymore, the talk about a "rap sabbath album" was all over the place and no one knew what Tony Iommi wanted to do with the band (probably not Tony Iommi either). This is reflected in the lyrics and sound, both in a good and bad way, very much like Technical Ecstasy.

To sum it up, I think you will have a much easier time getting into Cross Purposes first. While not a bad album at all (I love all Sabbath albums equally at the moment) Forbidden does require time to get into it, partly because of the uncertain sound and lack of band feeling but mostly because the mix kinda sucks. But when you listen to Forbidden a couple of times and read the lyrics etc, you find that there is emotion in Tony Martin's voice as well as in Tony Iommi's solos (especially the solo in "Sick and Tired") that easily matches the greatness of previous albums. I hope I have been of some help here, keep listening to the unknown underrated Sabbath albums man, I discovered much more great music that I could ever imagine in them, I hope you will feel the same!

[Van Sabbath]

Josef, you hit the nail on the head man. To Ozzy02: Yes, Born Again is definitely worth buying. You may not get into all the songs at first listen but they all start sounding good after repeated listens. As for Cross Purposes and Forbidden, yes they both are worth getting. Cross Purposes is absolutely magnificent, the album flows so well together plus you get a good variety of songs. Some fast paced ones, some heavy ones, some not so heavy ones etc. Forbidden is definitely harder to get into. For awhile with me the only song that I listened to on it was the title track because I liked it so much. After much repeated listens I was able to understand the emotional part of the album and appreciate it. So to sum everything up, Yes, you should look for all 3.

[Ochlocracy]

Well I think it's a good album, but I think you should listen to it on a streaming website to see if you should buy it.

[H&H]

Well I think it's a good album, but I think you should listen to it on a streaming website to see if you should buy it.

Very good advice! All of the songs are available on youtube and elsewhere. I love the album and would highly recommend it, but that does not mean you are going to like it. Check it out and see what you think. Then purchase if you like it.

[MH1986]

At first I hated this album with a passion, over time I've warmed up to it a bit. The music itself is good, however the lyrics are pretty bad overall.

Buy it, its far more worthy of your $10 than most newer releases these days.

[AngryHeart]

Yes, it is a great album. It's one of the albums I keep going back to over the years.

[Ala]

Definently. Buy it. If you're in to Sabbath, it's a must have. As mentioned before here, the title track is really, really good. And the album as a whole is good as well, albeit different from what came before.
I just gotta say something about the cover. It's been ridiculed ever since it came out, but I think it's a bad-ass cover. Really dark and doomish. Reminds me of some kind of 70s-80s horror.

[NoWayOut]

hows about YOU be the judge of that. I remember back in the day if I wanted to hear a album I went buy it. good or bad.

[Ala]

hows about YOU be the judge of that. I remember back in the day if I wanted to hear a album I went buy it. good or bad.

Good point. And to an extent, I agree with you. But I can see why he asks. It's good to get someone elses opinion sometimes, and tips on this or that. I can totally see why he would ask something like this.
And as we have already told him, Ozzy02: Buy the album. It's great.

[justme1]

What sane reason could you have NOT to buy it ???

Zero the Hero and Disturbing the Priest probably 2 of the heaviest songs the band did, and the vocals are great (look whose they are).

I rate it in my top 5 sabs albums

[NoWayOut]

What sane reason could you have NOT to buy it ???

Zero the Hero and Disturbing the Priest probably 2 of the heaviest songs the band did, and the vocals are great (look whose they are).

I rate it in my top 5 sabs albums

Mr.Gillian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Josef_K]

What sane reason could you have NOT to buy it ???

Zero the Hero and Disturbing the Priest probably 2 of the heaviest songs the band did, and the vocals are great (look whose they are).

I rate it in my top 5 sabs albums

Sane reasons not to buy "Born Again":

- The mix is very strange and "either you love it or you hate it"
- Ian Gillan screams. A lot.
- The lyrics are mixed surrealism with the classic shallow Gillan-ish lyrics, aka strange lyrics, very un-Sabbathy in a way
- The overall sound can be seen as some irritating mix between non-sabbath sound and a very typical sabbath sound.

Just to be irritating I love the Born Again album as you can see in my first post, the title track is my favorite Sabbath track of all time. Just saying lots of people hate it, and probably mostly due to these reasons.

[Totentanz]

Get it. It's a beast.

[justme1]

Yes, he screams. Luv it !

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

It probably boils down to how much spare cash you have. If you're on a tight budget then listen to what you can on you tube before making the decision. If money is no object and you like Sabbath and/or Gillan's work then buy it ... you can always use it as a beer mat if you find you don't like it.

[Axeman77]

yes, buy it....one of my favs.

[blablabloly]

Man buy it!!
I'am fanatic fan of this line-up. I've got 3 versions of this album: Castle Remaster 1996, Deluxe Edition 2011, and the famous Born Again Demos 1983 (factory pressed bootleg - very expensive thing)
If you wanna buy the Deluxe Edition, BUY IT, because the bonusdisc kicks ASS!!!

[profusion]

Born Again is the most "extreme" Sabbath album, in terms of both the sound and the songwriting style. Even all these years later, I can't say I've ever heard anything else quite like it. I bought it the day it was released in 1983, but unfortunately they canceled the gig in my town on that tour, so I didn't get to see that lineup play live.

[jestor92]

I think it's a killer album.

The title track Born Again is IMO the best song on the album. When I used to dj at my local community college I used to play the song "Born Again" and almost everytime I played the song I'd either get a phone call into the studio or someone who heard the song playing outside the studio to ask who the song is because it's a good song.

Zero the Hero, Disturbing the Priest, and Trashed are all great songs and Gillian sounds great to go along with the vintage Iommi riffs.

[Ozzy02]

Thanks everyone, So glad for all the great advice all. Haven't bought it yet But have bought a bootleg dvd from the "Born Again" tour Montreal 83. Great show not the greatest quality or picture but a great show. Boy does he ever scream I tell you. Anyone familiar with the Montreal 83' show?

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

question, is Bill Ward featured in the "Trashed" and "Zero The Hero" promo videos? Just wondering. Anyone here know

[Thelemech]

I have the Deluxe Edition and I highly recommend to anyone who likes the idea of Purple Sabbath/Deep Sabbath although the mix is ridiculous the music is excellent.

[Tilman]

I couldn´t live without it.

I was about 17 years old, when someone in school gave me Born Again on LP as a present (he wanted to get rid of it, probably).

Love it, or hate it, you can´t ignore it. That´s a good statement, because this album is full of hate, at least that´s what you can feel, when listening to it.
Those were my "green years", back then, mixed with alcohol and other stuff, sometimes. That´s probably, why I got into this album much faster, than most, as it perfectly reflects some chaos and aggression.
My cat loved that album, he went straight to the speakers and rubbed against them.

I even painted the cover on my wall, back then, 6 by 6 feet ... With black light, that was a sight to see, I tell you.

I wouldn´t advise anyone to buy it. I read a lot of critique about this album. Some Gillan fans hate the album, some Ozzy fans love it, Dio fans hating or loving it, etc.

Taste is where all discussion ends, I think. Everybody is free to have his own opinion about liking an album, or not.

Musically, it is a neat album, no doubt about that. More distorted, than anything before that (and probably the most aggressive sound of ALL albums, in my opinion).

Songwriting was a different progress on that album, as the band wrote the songs without Gillan (he mostly sat outside and drank Whiskey at a campfire).
I don´t know, if that was a good thing for this recording, or not, but the result is what it is: A piece of art

[Monster Boy]

question, is Bill Ward featured in the "Trashed" and "Zero The Hero" promo videos? Just wondering. Anyone here know

From what I remember the videos were done with Bev Bevan. Check it on youtube if you can.

[taurus]

Of course you should buy it, then get trashed and play it on ten!

[profusion]

From what I remember the videos were done with Bev Bevan. Check it on youtube if you can.

I'm pretty sure that's the case. The band didn't actually participate in the making of those videos. The producer simply spliced some live footage of the band into the videos, and the Gillan-era band only ever played live with Bev Bevan. I thought the "Trashed" video was pretty cool, myself. It fit the mood of the song quite well. Pity that MTV didn't show it very often; maybe the album would have sold better in the USA if they had.

[Musicman11]

I could actually use some help with this too. I'm a fan of Born Again, and I know Seventh Star and The Eternal Idol are pretty good albums. But I was wondering if it was worth spending about $30 a piece on the import deluxe editions of the albums since I live in the US. The only place I can find them is Amazon, so I was hoping that I could get some feedback before I spend any major money on these alums.

[marc g]

Born Again is a great tittle for the album because every time i hear it i feel like it was the first time hearing it. BUY IT AND EVERTHING DEEP PURPLE WITH IAN DID.

[Tilman]

I could actually use some help with this too. I'm a fan of Born Again, and I know Seventh Star and The Eternal Idol are pretty good albums. But I was wondering if it was worth spending about $30 a piece on the import deluxe editions of the albums since I live in the US. The only place I can find them is Amazon, so I was hoping that I could get some feedback before I spend any major money on these alums.

Difficult question.

I have not had a listen to it, yet, but I want all the deluxe editions at some point and as I am a huge Born Again fan, I will not buy it last.

[Ochlocracy]

I could actually use some help with this too. I'm a fan of Born Again, and I know Seventh Star and The Eternal Idol are pretty good albums. But I was wondering if it was worth spending about $30 a piece on the import deluxe editions of the albums since I live in the US. The only place I can find them is Amazon, so I was hoping that I could get some feedback before I spend any major money on these alums.

You can get 'em for a lot cheaper if you get them from Amazon UK. I got my Born Again DE for around 20 AUD.

[Musicman11]

You can get 'em for a lot cheaper if you get them from Amazon UK. I got my Born Again DE for around 20 AUD.

Yeah they are cheaper, except I'm from America, so that's a problem. I'm asking if it is worth the price not owning any of the 3 albums in any form. I love Born Again, while Seventh Star and Eternal Idol are generally growing on me. It's just as a kid with limited resources (I'm 15.), I have a tendency to buy cheaper albums or large sets on multiple albums. It's just hard to justify that much money for a single album, regardless of extras or how much I may love the album.

[dylanlittle]

OMG born again is really good, especially trashed, disturbing the preist, zero the hero & Born again, Ian Gillan is the 3rd best sabbath singer of all time behind ozzy and dio and to be honest this album is a part of sabbath history so yeah buy it dude its great

[Ochlocracy]

Yeah they are cheaper, except I'm from America, so that's a problem. I'm asking if it is worth the price not owning any of the 3 albums in any form. I love Born Again, while Seventh Star and Eternal Idol are generally growing on me. It's just as a kid with limited resources (I'm 15.), I have a tendency to buy cheaper albums or large sets on multiple albums. It's just hard to justify that much money for a single album, regardless of extras or how much I may love the album.

It's still cheaper from Amazon UK, even if you live in the States.

[Never Satisfied]

I finally bought the deluxe edition because I love this album soo much. Like I already knew...the deluxe editions are dogshit.......seriously. I'm stupid for buying it....the 1996 sanctuary version sounds better. Even the bootleg of the Fallen sounds better than this official version. The Reading concert sounds marginally better than the bootleg..........just barely...