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  1. #1
    Monster Boy's Avatar
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    Default The Auto Tune Thingy

    This topic has shown up in a few spots lately here on the forum so I figured it could use its own thread. Please direct all future "Ozzy is auto tuned to death" discussions here

    Auto tune sounds like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBb4cjjj1gI

    Compare that to "Let me Hear You Scream"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1esP...eature=related

    The Ozzy song sounds like effects are definitely applied. Auto Tune though? It certainly doesn't sound anything like that blippity "Do You Belee-eee-eeve" Cher song for example.

    Now maybe the Auto Tuned News and T-Pain sounds are just one way to apply auto tune and you can use it in other ways that end up sounding completely different, I'm not sure about that because I have never used the effect or seen demonstrations of its use. Another thing that makes me think there isn't auto tune however (beyond the fact that as far as I know it doesn't sound like it) is that you can't have gilssandi in a vocal line if you are using auto tune because it quantizes everything to the exact pitches of the equal tempered scale (12 distinct notes with spaces between them, no sliding spectrum of frequencies allowed). In simpler terms, you couldn't "slide" from one note to another using auto tune, like Ozzy does on the word "want" because Auto Tune eliminates the space between the notes.

    One idea I hadn't considered is that maybe the effect is being applied to select notes here and there. If that were the case it would be hard to tell, because the way I notice Auto Tune is the blippy, quantized sound between notes rather than individual notes by themselves.

    Really, all I am saying is it's more accurate to say his vocals are loaded with effects and processing on the Scream album than to say it is auto-tuned to death. But I may be wrong, so if anybody here can prove they are using auto tune please do. But also, there are some songs on the album that don't sound like as many effects are being applied (Time and I Want it More for example) as say on Let it Die.
    Last edited by Monster Boy; 11-26-2011 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Pink Led Rush's Avatar
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    He's just using loads of reverb and multiple tracks, not auto-tuning
    Originally Posted by Monster Boy

    Depends on who is doing the rating. If they agree with me, they've rated it just right.

  3. #3
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    that blippity "Do You Belee-eee-eeve
    that's auto-tune used wrong, kinda like an effect. (atleast that's how i understand it from my VERY limited knowledge of using those knobs&bolts in that little room beside the studio(do i have to say i meant control-room?))
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  4. #4
    Monster Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    (do i have to say i meant control-room?))
    Say it!!

    Jk. So maybe I'm wrong then. Could you elaborate a bit on the using it wrong deal, like where you heard that or how to use it right for example?

  5. #5
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    This is a good (and comical) example of over-using this effect. Which seems to be the way to do it in todays hip-hop/r&b-sound. (remember those days Led Zeppelin was R&B?)

    Anyway...

    Ozzy might (i don't know) have had some producers processing him trough auto-tune on his last solo-albums, and for some that might sound a bit stale. But atleast it did'nt end up like MB's examples here. So the producers knew what they were doing...

    I myself would like it to be no auto-tune on the next Sabbath-album, but IF (i'm really not saying it is) Ozzy's voice is so out of tune, it's better that someone knowledgeable will fix it up a bit, instead of it sounding like some hippie-punk demo-recording done in a park on acid. Never thought i would say this, i like hippie-punk demo-recordings done in a park on acid...

    As for other effects, yeah, tons of them. No doubt...

    ---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    Say it!!

    Jk. So maybe I'm wrong then. Could you elaborate a bit on the using it wrong deal, like where you heard that or how to use it right for example?
    Since i don't know how to put two quotes in the same post, my last post was suposed to be the same as the one you answered here...

    The way i had it explained is that when that Belee-eee-eeve-sound comes, it's basicaly a short-cut in the system. Something to do with two equal frequencies hitting each other. Don't know the English word for it, but in Norwegian (and Scandinavia, i presume. it was a swede who told me this) it's called a "fase-feil". A short-cut is the best way i can describe it with my linguistic scills... If anyone knows these things better than me, please shout out!!!

    ---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

    Used right..? Well, maybe the last few Ozzy-records?

    To the rest of you; yeah, it sounds prosessed, but come on... Tell me which singer at 60+ that don't use prosessing nowadays?
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 11-26-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    A short-cut is the best way i can describe it with my linguistic scills... If anyone knows these things better than me, please shout out!!!
    I think I can help out here a bit. "Fasfel" in Swedish is when two sine-waves take out each other, like for example if you are recording drums and the microphones are on different heights and you don't know what you are doing, you can easily have "fasfel". Essentially it means that when one sine-wave has reached it's top, the other one is at it's bottom, so the overall sound is really thin and just... bad... According to google translate, "fasfel" is "phase errors" in english, I have no idea if that is correct, but it's a direct translation at least :D

    As for auto-tune, I have very limited experience of that effect, all I know is that I hate it. However I am almost 100% sure that you can have an "amount" parameter on the auto-tune, allowing certain slides to be performed, or just turning it off and on could work as well. I have claimed on this forum that Ozzy's voice is "auto-tuned beyond recognition" which was in fact not a very smart thing to say since I cannot point out what part of his sound is destroyed by auto-tune and what parts are destroyed by other dead and sterile effects. All I know is that I think Ozzy's sound has been over-produced to a ridiculous level for many years now. I will listen to the examples you gave here as soon as I'm finished with "Cross Purposes", you see in my world it is a crime to pause a Black Sabbath record.
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  7. #7
    Monster Boy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanations folks. I also found another youtube video that explains auto tune a bit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnT2stOroQw

    To sum up what they say, the way R&B uses autotune is to just turn the effect on and let it run on auto pilot so to speak, where every note is corrected instantly. That's where you get the fals-feil. Good producers will go in and subtly adjust only the notes that really need it after the fact. So, if the producer is good you won't know auto tune has been used. Pretty much exactly what y'all said.

    I guess we have no way of knowing how much auto tune has been used then. I imagine it has been used on Scream, since Ozzy is in tune throughout, but as long as no strange blips result, auto tune sounds like a good thing, as long as the producer knows to leave most of the notes alone. Sometimes a note has to be out of tune to really be in tune, especially in the blues for example.

    I do wonder if there are ways to tell auto tune has been applied, even if the producer has done it right?
    Last edited by Monster Boy; 11-26-2011 at 05:36 PM.

  8. #8
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    I also found another youtube video that explains auto tune a bit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnT2stOroQw
    I would say that video in some way explains how auto-tune works, but it also really shows a guy who don't know how to use it. You can hear, it all sounds worse after he's progressed it. (yeah i know that was mainly what he was trying to do, but even the good examples wasn't good examples)

    As to Josef_K: yeah, fase-feil, fasfel, or phase errors, whatever it may be, is not necessarily linked to auto-tuning, but my point was that that Cher: Belee-eee-eeve, is suposedly a phase error within the auto-tune-programme... Which you can hear on that last video Monster Boy posted.
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  9. #9
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    The closer a vocalist is to the correct pitch the less noticible auto tune is. Of course how high you've got the sucker set makes a huge difference.

    The noticible way pop singers and rappers use it is by cranking the plugin to the max and singing waaay off key. That's when you encounter all of those "fun" autotuned sound fragments.

    If someone is singing perfectly in tune auto tune won't do shit. You only notice it when the singer misses a note badly producing that robotic autotune fragmentation. People tend to mistake other effects for it often such as a multichorus effect.

    I've used auto tune before, not a big fan of it.
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  10. #10
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    Sometimes a note has to be out of tune to really be in tune, especially in the blues for example.
    Luckily we've got this thing called blues, which, if you want it to, can destroy and fuck up all you thought you knew about the 12note-system... In other parts of the world they are doing things in 24, 38 and so on... Remember, between the half notes, there's the quarter notes. Which ofcourse would fuck an auto-tune system even more up.

    Tinariwen: Tamatant Tilay
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G902LVnRDE

    Would like to see someone auto-tune that one...

    And yeah, i meant the vocals using quarter-notes, not the guitar, which is basically just a blues-guitar, and the quarters are so much more common there..
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 11-26-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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  11. #11
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    I think it's an effects/processing thing more than anything. I have no doubts that Ozzy can hit most any note given countless attempts at it. Is there auto-tune sprinkled throughout any given recent album? Undoubtedly. But everything is done at his own home. With no timeline, they could spend an entire day recording the chorus to one track over and over and over again. No studio rental costs, no equipment rental costs, etc.

    It's midnight, on a Tuesday, there's an idea, the voice feels strong, hit record. Done. It's too easy these days. There's a lot of layering, a lot of double and triple tracking. It just creates a much fuller sound. Some love it, some hate it. Would it be badass to have the Ozzy voice of 1971 still? Sure. I have no doubts the man himself would sell his soul for it, but alas, here we are. To me, it still sounds like Ozzy Osbourne. Regards of what the equipment is called, it isn't auto-tune that has me sitting at work, humming the chorus to 'Time' for weeks on end. The inevitable hook of an Ozzy vocal melody is still there. However they need to get it done, so be it.

    That goes for Ozzy, Rob Halford, Ian Astbury and every other one of my favorite aging rock stars. Whatever.
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