Metal Evolution

[devstorm]

Just did a search and sort of surprised no one has started a thread on this recent TV series airing in North America/Canada by the team that brought us the documentary Metal: A Headbangers Journey.

Its a decent show all things considered. Much like Headbangers Journey, the initial episodes focus on the beginnings of metal, and feature interviews with musicians, fans and experts. Each subsequent episode goes for a particular era or sub-genre, such as the NWOBHM episode, or Thrash, Grunge, or Glam Metal episodes.

I like it for the most part, despite most of the shows providing mostly information that is already second nature to a lifelong Metal fan like myself. Theres plenty of benefit to those not familiar with Metals origins or a particular sound, style or performer. They have one episode left in the season which will cover Power Metal this Saturday on VH1 classic.

Most of the episodes can be seen online (Im guessing they may not allow streams in area's it hasn't aired yet). So check it out if you're so inclined..

http://www.vh1.com/shows/metal_evolution/series.jhtml

I have to ask the forum, in your part of the world is or has N.W.O.B.H.M. ever been pronounced as it was a word (as in "Newobem)? I had never heard it termed as such, so it sounded rather ridiculous when I heard it uttered on that particular episode.


Anyway just thought this show might make for a good topic of discussion here.

[Billy Underdog]

It's airing on Norwegian TV right now, the two first episodes so far. Third one this evening, if i'm not mistaken. Very similar to A Headbangers Journey, but going deeper into things, as one'd be able to in a TV-series. I liked how he pulled out metal's origins in blues and classical music in the first episode (although that wasn't any new info for me as such...), but i think he focused too much on the wanking of Paganini, comparing it to guitarists like Malmsteen, which isn't that special for either metal or classical, and too little of the truely heavy music of Wagner, Bach and Beethoven. (Wagner did get one little mention, but far less than he ought to...)

I have heard N.W.O.B.H.M pronounced as a word, don't really remember where though. I think maybe Fenriz (of Darkthrone) said it as a joke once.

Looking forward to the genre-based episodes. Ep 2 about American proto-metal was pretty good...


B.t.w, also check out Sam Dunn's follow-up to A Headbangers Journey; Global Metal. Lot's of interesting things, especially from the middle- and far east. Discovered an Israeli band called Orphaned Land from that one, pretty cool. And the vocalist has some fucking good things to say about the conflict between Christians, Jews & Muslims (We're all sons of Abraham). Awesome to see a Jew with a Palestinian scarf.

And then there's that extra-thing for A Headbangers Journey that goes deeper into Norwegian Black Metal, couse he got a lot of hassle focusing only on the satan-stuff and church-burnings in AHJ. But i guess if you've seen AHJ, you've seen that one too... Anyway, it's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjgri4YxsKQ (Sorry for going a bit of topic there, and Joe; sorry for bringing religion & politics up.)

[led sabbath]

Yeah, It's a great show, really liked the early episodes. And speaking of AHJ, I love the last line about if you don't get it you may never get it and that's Ok, "We're doin' fine without you".

[RLP4ever]

^ yea, led sabbath, I'd say that's a very apt parting shot.

@devstorm
Sounds like a program worth watching----though, like yourself, I reckon I'd obviously feel a bit too knowing of a majority of the stuff shown in them, i.e. the origins of Metal, the sub-genres etc....dev, is there anything substantive about DM and Grindcore, on any of the episodes? It there's isn't, the show can fade away into oblivion, and I wouldn't care

Also, I'm bemused at what you say you've heard about 'NWOBHM' being pronounced that way. Very weird. First time I've heard of this, though I'll admit how talking NWOBHM in a conversation still feels a bit awkward on the tongue. So I suspect there's been a temptation and a tendency, among some fans perhaps, to say it out as a single word.

[Totentanz]

I have to ask the forum, in your part of the world is or has N.W.O.B.H.M. ever been pronounced as it was a word (as in "Newobem)? I had never heard it termed as such, so it sounded rather ridiculous when I heard it uttered on that particular episode.

Yes, 'newobem' was used here in the UK as far back as I can remember. When the phrase was first coined it was such a terrible acronym that people used to say 'newobem' in a jocular way. It sounds crap as a word, but that was in itself kinda entertaining (we obviously were very easily pleased )

[Billy Underdog]

It sounds crap as a word, but that was in itself kinda entertaining (we obviously were very easily pleased )

I'd think that was kinda the whole point, that it sound so stupid...

[devstorm]

^ yea, led sabbath, I'd say that's a very apt parting shot.

@devstorm
Sounds like a program worth watching----though, like yourself, I reckon I'd obviously feel a bit too knowing of a majority of the stuff shown in them, i.e. the origins of Metal, the sub-genres etc....dev, is there anything substantive about DM and Grindcore, on any of the episodes? It there's isn't, the show can fade away into oblivion, and I wouldn't care

Also, I'm bemused at what you say you've heard about 'NWOBHM' being pronounced that way. Very weird. First time I've heard of this, though I'll admit how talking NWOBHM in a conversation still feels a bit awkward on the tongue. So I suspect there's been a temptation and a tendency, among some fans perhaps, to say it out as a single word.

Nothing on any extreme metal specifically RLP. The Thrash episode touched on how a few Melodic DM bands such as At The Gates and the like tipped their hat & owed a huge debt to thrash, but no dedicated Death Metal episode. If the show does well enough in the ratings to spawn a second season, I suppose there's a pretty good chance they'll do a DM/Grind/extreme metal episode during its next run (Assuming theres no more Episodes following Saturday's).

I think of the episodes that have aired so far, the only one worth skipping over entirely is the NU Metal episode. Watching it rekindled my absolute utter hatred for that wretched bullshit. And after half the episode was over I had to turn it off. I couldnt believe I had spent that much more of my life reliving the agony of hearing of all those douchebag bands. If there ever was a musical holocaust in the modern age NU METAL was it. Id have rather seen Warrant, Slaughter & Trixter make huge comebacks then the bands that thrived during the NU Metal era.

Yes, 'newobem' was used here in the UK as far back as I can remember. When the phrase was first coined it was such a terrible acronym that people used to say 'newobem' in a jocular way. It sounds crap as a word, but that was in itself kinda entertaining (we obviously were very easily pleased )

Hmm interesting. As I stated previously I'd never heard it put that way. We here on the West Coast seem to prefer just to say the words that N.W.O.B.H.M. stand for. It may take longer, & be a mouthful but sounds better to my ears..

[kamikazetom]

I've been enjoying this series - loved it when they interviewed Dave Davies in the 1st episode & he told the story behind the guitar sound of YRGM - old story but good to see Dave & to me it looks like he is completely recovered from the stroke he had a few years ago (come on Dave - re-unite the Kinks with Ray for one more tour) - last week was on Shock rock & I loved it that they showed how shocking the audience went back tothe old side shows from PT Barnum - thought it was one of the better episodes. I am looking forward to the last 2 episodes Power Metal is this Saturday followed by Prog - all in all I think it's been a good seires & I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel

[Musicman11]

I can say I've enjoyed the majority of the series. It's been interesting, but I wish he would delve into some other types of heavier metal. I know he covered it a little more then most in Headbangers, but still it would be nice. He's mainly focused on the older stuff this time around, with the only newer or unknowns being nu-metal and then some brief mentioning of heavier stuff in the Thrash episode. Still a great series though that I have thoroughly enjoyed.

[devstorm]

I can say I've enjoyed the majority of the series. It's been interesting, but I wish he would delve into some other types of heavier metal. I know he covered it a little more then most in Headbangers, but still it would be nice. He's mainly focused on the older stuff this time around, with the only newer or unknowns being nu-metal and then some brief mentioning of heavier stuff in the Thrash episode. Still a great series though that I have thoroughly enjoyed.

I agree to some extent. But the show is called Metal Evolution. So the history of whatever subject the episode is referring, is key to the concept of the show. I think there will be another season of the show. The Family tree that serves as the blueprint for the series is actually pretty extensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal:_A_Headbanger's_Journey#.22Definitive_metal_ family_tree.22

They havent touched on Doom or Black or Death metal at all yet. Perhaps it would be cool to also do a show on Metal Festivals since there are so many of those these days, and the History of Festivals such as Donnington, Dynamo, Wacken etc has got to be full of interesting stories.

I have to admit the Power Metal episode last night did nothing to win me over to bands like Dragonforce or Hammerfall. But it also didn't incense me like the Nu Metal episode. Really looking forward to Prog metal though.

[RLP4ever]

Haha, dev, your deep-seated disdain for nu-metal couldn't be any clearer to me, or anybody else. I think I had already admitted a long time ago that,despite largely hating nu-metal as a genre, I somewhat like several random nu-metal songs; I've always mostly liked Slipknot, for example, and love Deftones (though they are hardly nu-metal at all, in my opinion, but many people seem to think they are). I'm not surprised that you'd be unimpressed by the segment on Power Metal, in the series. I'm sure I'd feel the same. And yea, DM, BM, Grind, Doom etc...urgently need to be incorporated into the series, very soon. I'd sure love Sludge Metal to have a separate slot to itself. At any rate, I need to watch some of these episodes, sometime...maybe on DVD??

[Billy Underdog]

DM, BM, Grind, Doom etc...urgently need to be incorporated into the series, very soon. I'd sure love Sludge Metal to have a separate slot to itself.

Since the only Extreme Metal represented is Thrash (if one even count that under the EM-umbrella), i guess he has plans of making a second season. Thinking how much EM was represented in AHJ.

So, along with Metal Evolution, AHJ and Global Metal, Sam Dunn & Scot McFadyen also made Iron Maiden: Flight 666 and Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage, and are currently working on one called Satan. "A look at the origins of Satan and his influence in popular culture"
I've seen Flight 666, even before i knew it was them who made it (i hate Maiden, but i love music-documentaries). Any of you Rush-fans seen that one? Is it any good?

[led sabbath]

It's too bad you don't like Maiden. Yes the Rush doc is good, it goes over their hole history. I know what you mean about rock docs, even if you don't like their music it's usually pretty interesting.

[Billy Underdog]

It's too bad you don't like Maiden.

Well, it's not entirely true, i DO like the Di'Anno-albums. But it got kinda boring when they started recording & releasing The Number Of The Beast over and over and over and... zzzzzzz

I'll check out the Rush-doc.

[Drago]

The Rush doc is absolutely amazing Billy. I think it is one of the best documentaries released yet (along with Lemmy's). I learned so much about the band that I didn't know before and my heart really goes out to Neil Peart. Geddy and Alex seem like such down to earth people and not at all like I would have pictured them.

I am really loving the Metal Evolution series. I love Sam Dunn and I think he does a fantastic job representing Metal in all of its forms. Every time I watch the series I always come back to the fact that it is nice to be able to relate to an intelligent perspective on Metal instead of most of the meatballs I see at shows. I am two episodes behind and will try and get caught up this weekend. I really hope they release this on DVD to purchase with a ton of extra's. Obviously hoping for a great Death and a Black Metal episode sometime in the future.

[Billy Underdog]

Yeah, Lemmy The Movie was great. Man, that guy is cool.

[devstorm]

Haha, dev, your deep-seated disdain for nu-metal couldn't be any clearer to me, or anybody else. I think I had already admitted a long time ago that,despite largely hating nu-metal as a genre, I somewhat like several random nu-metal songs; I've always mostly liked Slipknot, for example, and love Deftones (though they are hardly nu-metal at all, in my opinion, but many people seem to think they are). I'm not surprised that you'd be unimpressed by the segment on Power Metal, in the series. I'm sure I'd feel the same. And yea, DM, BM, Grind, Doom etc...urgently need to be incorporated into the series, very soon. I'd sure love Sludge Metal to have a separate slot to itself. At any rate, I need to watch some of these episodes, sometime...maybe on DVD??

Well my animosity is really directed at the bands that incorporated hip hop elements. Slipknot are musical enough that even if they utilized that to a degree, they still keep things interesting, although I'm still not terribly fond of them. Similarly a band like System Of A Down I suppose could be considered Nu Metal. But again they really didn't involve a big hip hop type of sound into their music. I like a few of their albums. Its just the Rap/Metal stuff that I really resent.

I like some power metal but its few and far between.

Since the only Extreme Metal represented is Thrash (if one even count that under the EM-umbrella), i guess he has plans of making a second season. Thinking how much EM was represented in AHJ.

So, along with Metal Evolution, AHJ and Global Metal, Sam Dunn & Scot McFadyen also made Iron Maiden: Flight 666 and Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage, and are currently working on one called Satan. "A look at the origins of Satan and his influence in popular culture"
I've seen Flight 666, even before i knew it was them who made it (i hate Maiden, but i love music-documentaries). Any of you Rush-fans seen that one? Is it any good?

I found flight666 somewhat boring myself (And I love Maiden). The Rush documentary is pretty amazing, due in part to the overwhelming archive footage that they show; but their story itself is really incredible as well. The Satan doc sounds like it might be good.

[kentuckyfan]

Well I have not only watch each new episidoe but the re-runs. Sam Dunn has done more to promote Metal the past five years than any other person band or show. Sorry but this is just my opinion but the Power Metal show had Dragon Force using Guitar Hero to promote themselves and Buck Cherry's singer said sometimes he can't get a gig in some areas because of a lack of radio play. This series will be back becaause the past two shows left with saying seasson not documentry when the show is over. All the shows have been great, and yes I HATE FUCKING nu shit and hair shit but even I enjoyed these two episisoe's. Back in the day I heard the nwobhm a lot when I was 17-25. So now I realise I need to make a trip to Wacken. So do you all think Germany is ready for a visit by a Kentucky Country Headbanger?!?! This series ia a MUST for all Metal Fans as is all of Sam's documentries.

[justme1]

Am watching, but like his first documentary better and have it on DVD

[Billy Underdog]

Saw the Glam-episode yesterday. Boring as expected, until Guns N' came along, ofcourse.

As a fan of Gentle Giant, i've always thought it was cool that Derek Shulman was the one who signed Pantera, but i was disappointed to learn he signed Cinderella too. Went online to check out more, and got even more disappointed to find he signed Bon Jovi and Dream Theater too, as well as overseeing the signings of Slipknot and Nickleback...

Looking forward to next weeks Grunge-episode. Finally Grunge got its rightful place in a Metal-documentary. Now the only thing missing is the early 70's Prog.

[Drago]

Looking forward to next weeks Grunge-episode. Finally Grunge got its rightful place in a Metal-documentary. Now the only thing missing is the early 70's Prog.

I totally agree. I loved the Grunge episode and still believe many of the Grunge bands had a metal leaning. The lest episode of the season is on Prog and it talks all about the '70s Prog bands Yes, Genesis and King Crimson. It is a really excellent episode.

[Billy Underdog]

The lest episode of the season is on Prog and it talks all about the '70s Prog bands Yes, Genesis and King Crimson. It is a really excellent episode.

I know the last episode is about Prog-metal, but i expected some 70's prog, ecpesially KC, to be mentioned as a part of metals origins (as in they should've been mentioned in the first episodes).

[Sporkman GB]

I've seen at least half of every episode, and honestly not a huge fan of Sam Dunn's style. I loved the Rush movie he did, but he injects himself way too much into Metal Evolution and it got pretty boring pretty quickly--there was some interesting stuff, but alot of it I knew also.

Should've had an Extreme Metal episode, but I'd tend to agree, a second season is in the works. We'll see.

[Billy Underdog]

Just saw the grunge-episode. I just loved how stupid they made Creed look. But i think Nickleback was glorified WAAAY too much, as i find them even worse than Creed.
But it's good to see grunge included in the metal-story, where it belongs. R.I.P. Cobain and Staley.

But there's been something that've annoyed me since last weeks Thrash-episode. When they're talking about Thrash's decline around "Black Album" and the Clash Of The Titans-tour, they suddenly jump to the Swedish Melodic DM (which without a doubt was influenced by Thrash), and then again a big jump to the so-called New Wave Of American Heavy Metal represented by Lamb Of God.
But what about Pantera? Sepultura? And to some extent early Machine Head? I feel they left a big gap there. Pantera & Sepultura fucking saved Metal in the early 90's!!!

[kentuckyfan]

I agree with you Billy, Pantera and Sepultura did carry the Metal Flag best during the early 90's, but next season this ands many other topics can be covered. Next year we could see episodes on women in Metal, Death Metal, the changes bands like Sabbath, Maiden, Priest, and Metalica have had in sound direction and personal over the years. ALso more can be done about the big tours overe the years like Ozzfest and all the festival shows in Europe. Maybe explore metal in South America and Austrialia. Just a few thought from me.

[devstorm]

Just saw the grunge-episode. I just loved how stupid they made Creed look. But i think Nickleback was glorified WAAAY too much, as i find them even worse than Creed.
But it's good to see grunge included in the metal-story, where it belongs. R.I.P. Cobain and Staley.

But there's been something that've annoyed me since last weeks Thrash-episode. When they're talking about Thrash's decline around "Black Album" and the Clash Of The Titans-tour, they suddenly jump to the Swedish Melodic DM (which without a doubt was influenced by Thrash), and then again a big jump to the so-called New Wave Of American Heavy Metal represented by Lamb Of God.
But what about Pantera? Sepultura? And to some extent early Machine Head? I feel they left a big gap there. Pantera & Sepultura fucking saved Metal in the early 90's!!!

Agree with you about Sepultura. But I think the amount of air time probably had more to do with excluding Sepultura then their efforts to keep metal alive in the 90's.

Pantera was featured in the Nu Metal episode (where they should be), since they weren't ever thrash, they were groove metal.

[Billy Underdog]

they were groove metal.

Which without a doubt came from thrash. Dime even cited Master Of Puppets as a big influence on their change in sound from the glam-stuff to the groove-stuff.
Another apparent thrash-influence on groove are ofcourse Sepultura, which started as thrash, but evolved into groove in the early-mid 90's.

And although Pantera was a big influence on the nu-metal-stuff, they don't deserve the humiliation of being put in the nu-metal-episode.

[Billy Underdog]

This weeks episode is omitted in favour of the Oscar-awards. God damn it, i'm not interested in the fucking Oscars. I just wanna see my metal-documentary... Argh!!!

[devstorm]

This weeks episode is omitted in favour of the Oscar-awards. God damn it, i'm not interested in the fucking Oscars. I just wanna see my metal-documentary... Argh!!!

agree. I reside where the oscars take place, I am a major film go-er, and I havent bothered with most of the crap that was nominated this year. Metal is much more important then trite & trivial films that will be re-made in 5 years anyway.

[Billy Underdog]

[-E5150 StarWanderer-]

Just find out that Finnish network YLE Teema is going to air the whole series starting from october 8th. The episodes will air every monday (reruns on friday nights).

The series should be interesting. I really liked Headbanger's Journey and Global Metal, Dunn knows his business.

Eventhough I'm not a fan of extreme metal, it's a disgrace that nertworks are willing to dismiss an important part of this documentary because they find the material...well, too extreme. It's censorship really.