The 2012 "Bill Ward's Contract" fiasco

[The Mighty Sab]

Edit from Joe: I merged all the relevant threads regarding this fiasco into a single thread. I don't want it ending up dominating the forum - when any single action happens, have a new thread created. It's all the same conversation..

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Just saw this on his Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.ph...09213359124333

"Statement on Black Sabbath Album & Tour:

Los Angeles, CA – February 2, 2012

Dear Sabbath Fans, Fellow Musicians and Interested Parties,

At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour. However, I am unable to continue unless a "signable" contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band. Last year, I worked diligently in good faith with Tony, Ozzy and Geezer. And on 11/11/11, again in good faith, I participated in the L.A. press conference. Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another “unsignable” contract was handed to me.

Let me say that although this has put me in some kind of holding pattern, I am packed and ready to leave the U.S. for England. More importantly, I definitely want to play on the album, and I definitely want to tour with Black Sabbath.

Since the news of Tony's illness, and the understanding that the band would move production to the U.K., I've spent everyday getting to or living in a place of readiness to leave. That involves something of a task, and as I've tried to find out what's going on with the U.K. sessions, I've realized that I've been getting "the cold shoulder" (and, I might add, not for the first time). Feeling somewhat ostracized, my guess is as of today, I will know nothing of what'shappening unless I sign "the unsignable contract."


The place I'm in feels lousy and lonely because as much as I want to play and participate, Ialso have to stand for something and not sign on. If I sign as-is, I stand to lose my rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician. I believe in freedom and freedom of speech. I grew up in a hard rock/metal band. We stood for something then, and we played from the heart with honesty and sincerity. I am in the spirit of integrity, far from the corporate malady, I am real and honest, fair and compassionate.

If I'm replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted. Without fault finding, I want to assure everyone that my loyalty to Sabbath is intact.

So here I am. I lay my truth down before you. I'm good to go IF I get a “signable” contract. I don't want to let anyone down, especially Black Sabbath and all the Sabbath fans. You know I love you. It would be a sad day in Rock if this current situation fell to the desires of a few.

My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) like some kind of blackmail deal. I’d like something that recognizes and is reflective of my contributions to the band, including the reunions that started fourteen years ago. After the last tour I vowed to never again sign on to an unreasonable contract. I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family, a contract that will honor all that I've brought to Black Sabbath since its beginning.

That's the story so far.

Stay safe and stay strong.

I love every single one of you.

--Bill Ward"

[drian]

I cant belive this wasn't sorted before the annoucements. I think its disgusting that Bill is being treated like this.....again.
Dont blame him one bit for not just signing on. hope this all gets sorted. but it looks like at the moment alot of spanners are being thrown into the words of this tour/album

[IommiRules]

THIS is exactly why I have always said the reunion won't happen. THIS is why I said on or close to 11-11-11 that this did not appear to be a happy announcement for all of our heroes. I read people for a living, it's what I do. THIS is why I say under promise, over deliver. The guys have obviously been getting along well and after Ronnie's death probably have been talking to each other more often. So, maybe, it seemed logical to take their renewed and restrengthened friendships and that putting the band back together was the next natural step. However, whatever the real underlying causes are that have broken this lineup TWICE, obviously still exist. What a shame, hopefully it gets worked out.

[Sabbathman]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. Tony is battling cancer and now "the powers that be" are obviously daring to try to get Bill on board with some lousy, unprofessional and disrespecting contract. I can't believe the management problems this band seems to be getting in when the original Black Sabbath is in question. The greatest heavy metal band on earth is surrounded by incapable, greedy and completely unprofessional dickheads that are doing their best to RUIN IT ALL for everyone. Seems to me that this reunion was announced WAY TOO EARLY. Fuck, in the stone cold reality, they don't even have a drummer in their ranks, all they have is an ex-bandmate who WOULD LIKE TO DO IT if he was given a 'signable' contract. Fucking hell. He just stepped into the lime light in good spirit, for the common cause. I fucking thought they had signed all the deals before 11-11-11, also considering how long they tried to cover up this reunion.

My floor ticket is losing it's weight fast.

All things considered, I blame Sharon until someone proves otherwise. I do hope they will come up with a solution to this. This is the last reunion of Black Sabbath!!!

I'm hissing and crackling for the rest of this night. Don't try to make me happy.

[racer]

*sigh*

$hOzzy Inc. strikes again? Figures. Just like last time, eh $haron?

I'll spare you the rest of my rant.

God, I miss Dio!

[Paulie 88]

I just tried to post this to "comments" under Joe's article in the news section but I'm not sure if it's going through, so I'm putting it here too just in case.

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Ozzy's public statement regarding his legal claim to the name "Black Sabbath," *before* the settlement, said that he wanted a fair share and touted the importance of ALL FOUR original members. Details of the settlement, as published by Shozzy's legal team but NEVER publicly stated by Shozzy, states that Ozzy got a 50% share in the name Black Sabbath out of Tony's former 100%. Does that sound equitable to you?

Bill probably wants something as fair and simple as a one-fourth split from post-receipt tour proceeds (tickets, merch, etc) which would be completely fair. Knowing Shozzy's decades-long practice of not paying shares to musicians (they're not "band members" but independent contract players), I think it's a safe assumption that the four members of Black Sabbath are not getting equal pay according to the contracts as they currently stand.

I, for one, stand in solidarity with Bill on this. Unfair is unfair. Inequitable is inequitable.

To others, "money is money."

God bless Bill Ward and others who stand for their own integrity rather than give in to false masters.

All the best,
PAULIE

[Thelemech]

This is more terrible news about Sabbath...when will it end. Maybe a new album is not going to happen. This just fucking sucks. Why won't Sharon (I'm assuming its her) be fair to the original band. I also support Bill and his decision to hold out for a fair shake.

[Monster Boy]

I'm a bit shocked that Bill went public with this. A well considered strategy to drum up some public support for himself? He doesn't seem the scheming type so I doubt that's the case. Still, strange to put this on Facebook. No matter, I do hope they work it out, I'm not too keen on Mike Bordin, or anybody else drumming for Sabbath to be honest. Most importantly I was hopeful that Bill would be contributing as a song writer.

[sellingmysoul]

What the fuck why can't things work out? This is BS to treat Bill this way.Of course their are other sides to the story too. I have faith they will straighten this out.

[Musicman11]

Goddamn it, there is no reason to not have worked everything out already. We waited until November to get the "official" announcement and it turns out they hadn't taken care of all the legal stuff? I see Bill is justified in his decisions so far. I love the man's drumming and there is no excuse to just look at him as a lesser member of the band, he's played in the band longer then Ozzy for crying out loud (Even if it was for a short time). I really do hope that this is straightened out soon and everything can go as well as it can, but with each day it seems like this is just going to go down in flames.

[sn0wb1ind0zzy]

I'm shocked and quite stunned that this happened again. Hope Bill gets a good contract so he can be onboard.

[The Mighty Sab]

I feel that after going public with that, they are probably going to give him a fair contract. Getting fan support for Bill will help his cause and it would be a real dick move on Sabbath's (or management's) part not to include him on the album/tour. Not including him would make them look bad. It would be in their best interest to give him a fair contract.

[Soul Sucker]

I doubt there will ever be a new album if they can't work things out. This sucks so much.

[Icy Sun]

This is just incredible. I really have nothing else to say.

[David86]

What a shame.

[badactress]

Cunts. You think the guy battering away on the drums behind you is somehow less important than you? The fucking buddy you grew up with.. and at 60 odd years of age, with millions in the bank, you all think it's ok to screw him over one last time? Fine.. you do that.. do what the fuck you like Ozzy. I love you to bits and always will but I will not buy into this album and reunion shite unless Bill is part of it. Fuck you Ozzy, Fuck you Geezer, Fuck you Tony.

[Joe Siegler]

I was looking around at several of the news stories about all this. One of them ran this picture. If you look at the expressions of the people involved, Ozzy & Bill have that "Bill, What the fuck" look on them.

[TrogDawn]

We love you Bill!

[celt]

Give Bill a decent fucking contract!! There will be enough money made on this tour to make everybody involved filthy rich. give bill a decent fucking contract!!

[Van Sabbath]

Ugh!!! I knew as soon as I read the post's name that it wasn't going to be good news. It honestly seems like the reunion isn't meant to be. It's so irritating to see Bill get so ripped off. I agree with everyone with "Why didn't they do the legal stuff before announcing anything?" That is such a bad move. I feel that they will get around it though. In the meantime i'll just blame $haron like everyone else. At least until we find out the true culprit behind this setback. Even though i'm pretty sure she had something to do with it.

EDIT: Oh and about Bill mentioning about him possibly being replaced, Um....NO!!!!! They might as well just cancel the whole thing if Bill isn't there.

[Krish]

Although I'm not surprised that this is happening to him (again), I'm really shocked that this wasn't all worked out beore the announcement on 11/11/11. In any event, I would really advise Bill to be very careful b/c the machinations at work probably want to cut him a very poor deal/contract and so they offer him a really terrible one that they know he will refuse to sign and then to get what they want they then give him the very poor deal/contract that they had always envisioned giving him and he may sign on. I don't want him to sign for anything that is less than his fair share which I assume would be 25%. Of course to be eligible for the 25% he would have to do the whole tour - if he were to fall ill and not be able to play there should be some type of "insurance"/back-up plan in which he would still receive a significant percentage (no one can predict if they will fall ill). I will not go see Sabbath without Bill in the band because I've never seen the original Sabbath and that's the version I want to see.

K

[gunman42782]

This f-ing SUCKS!

[drian]

I also will also sell my ticket to see Sabbath, if Bill isnt there, it just isnt right.
One thing that gets me about this is the 4 members are probably sick of their respective management companies pulling this sort of thing. I know this is just speculation and I may be romanticising it.
When ozzy has made statements about not wanting to know about the business side of the music industry I can understand what he means. But it certainly would be helpful to stop things like this happening. I’m sure they will budge on this because they stand to make alot of money even if they allow bill what he deserves. Greedy bastards

[Deuce Frehley]

Sonofagoddamnfuckbitch!!!

[kamikazetom]

wow - I support Bill on this one - quit screwing around with him & give him a decent contract like he deserves. If not then why bother with all the press (11/11/11) with him & making a big deal about the original Sabbath re-uniting if all along the contracts weren't signed by all 4. Between this & Tony's illness not holding out a lot of hope for a new LP & tour now. I just hope Tony get's better & if they can't figure this out - just call it a day before everyone calls it a nightmare.

[kentuckyfan]

Well for one I am not that surprised. The real power and control in the bank is Tony and Ozzy, so Bill is stuck with a take some sum of cash be happy or leave. But on this site we are the real hard core Sabbath fans, remember to the general public if just Tony and Ozzy with two other players can make a Sabbath reunion that can be sold. I hate to hear this as much as any of us but we need to live in reality where big money talks and greed rules. Look at what is going on in the rest of the world where ever someone see's dollar signs the bankers and lawers are fighting for more that their fair share. To go along with Tony's cancer announcement we will need to wait and see if the festival shows go off and a new album is released.

[dioisgod]

this is why when the announcement of a new album and a tour i didnt pay much attention at all i was cautiously optomistic at best. i knew $hozzy would fuck this up in one way or another, they dont give a fuck about music, they dont give a fuck about the fans all they give a fuck about is the almight dollar. i support bill 100% hes been fucked over twice now(atleast) if i was him i would wipe my ass with that contract and throw it in $harons face.

[Old_Papa_Rich]

Well, this is depressing. I hope cooler heads prevail. This just won't work without Bill. I've been convinced for years that Bill was a huge difference maker in the music. His drumming is a big part of the Sabbath sound for me.

[Relic]

I think it's downright criminal to market a tour with the original lineup without all relevant contracts signed by all involved parties.

It's basically like selling a brand product and, once you've got the money, trying to switch it to a cheap imitation. The fucking tour is sold out, so shame on Tony and Ozzy for trying to rip-off the fans now. They're probably going to get away with it too, paying chickenshit money to some hired gun.

[dioisgod]

I think it's downright criminal to market a tour with the original lineup without all relevant contracts signed by all involved parties.

It's basically like selling a brand product and, once you've got the money, trying to switch it to a cheap imitation. The fucking tour is sold out, so shame on Tony and Ozzy for trying to rip-off the fans now. They're probably going to get away with it too, paying chickenshit money to some hired gun.

of course they will get away with it for most people. us hardcore sabbath fans are plenty fucking pissed but for people that just want to hear iron man and paranoid a million times think ozzy is the only member that matters

[Psycho Man]

completely ridiculous, like when Oz sued Tony for "equal" rights. 'Sabbath is the origional four of us, so me and Tony should get a 50/50 split.

[Ochlocracy]

Why complicate shit? 4 band equal members = 4 equal payments. I blame Sharon like the rest of you.

[Drago]

I am not sure how we can blame Sharon yet when no details has been stated by Bill. We don't know what is going on. We don't know what Bill was even offered. I can really say that I support Bill or not as we don't know the facts. I hope it works out as I really want an album with the original line up. Remember it was Tony and Bill who couldn't work out the Heaven and Hell tunes a couple of years ago. Again, I am not saying that is what it is but people everywhere are just assuming it is Sharon.

Lets just hope that it gets worked out. If Tony and Ozzy are making all of the money why isn't Geezer complaining as well.

[Vynlsol]

I really hope they can work all of this out. Soon.

[KazolOrajia]

I don't know what to say to this. I honestly don't.

I had considered the possibility that Bill wouldn't end up doing the tour, but because of health, not shit like this. If he had a heart attack or decided he didn't feel well enough to go through with it, and was replaced, I would still support Sabbath. But bullshit like this fucking sickens me. There's no proof $haron's responsible for this, but considering her past actions, it's most likely. Money money money. The whole point of this reunion was THE ORIGINAL BAND. Not 3/4 of the original band, all of them. I was so excited, I wanted so fucking badly to see my favourite band, probably the only chance I would get. But if Bill's out because of something like this, I will not sacrifice my integrity. I will stand by Bill Ward.

[Monster Boy]

I am not sure how we can blame Sharon yet when no details has been stated by Bill. We don't know what is going on. We don't know what Bill was even offered. I can really say that I support Bill or not as we don't know the facts. I hope it works out as I really want an album with the original line up. Remember it was Tony and Bill who couldn't work out the Heaven and Hell tunes a couple of years ago. Again, I am not saying that is what it is but people everywhere are just assuming it is Sharon.

Lets just hope that it gets worked out. If Tony and Ozzy are making all of the money why isn't Geezer complaining as well.

Hear, hear. Many here are acting as if they have seen the contract. We truly don't know what is going on. It does seem likely that Bill is actually getting ripped off, but all we have so far is his word for it and a pattern of Sharon ripping folks off. Yes, we can all put two and two together, but as far as we know it's something like 2+2 to the 7th power divided by 46 or something if you catch my drift. ie, there may be other factors involved. I'm also wondering when somebody will post a response that says "well, with Bill's failing health and diminished drum skills, I wouldn't be upset if they got Vinny instead."

[KazolOrajia]

I'm also wondering when somebody will post a response that says "well, with Bill's failing health and diminished drum skills, I wouldn't be upset if they got Vinny instead."

As I said, I'd be fine with Vinny or someone else doing it-IF, and only if, Bill can't or won't do it because of his health, not because he's getting fucked over by an unfair contract. This has happened twice before, Ozzfest '97, and Ozzfest '04, but in the case of the later, an agreement was reached, largely because of the fan reaction I think. The internet is even bigger now, and I have a feeling that so is the desire for a true reunion and equal right for all the members, so I'm hoping it will work out, as long as Bill gets what he deserves.

[Monster Boy]

As I said, I'd be fine with Vinny or someone else doing it-IF, and only if, Bill can't or won't do it because of his health, not because he's getting fucked over by an unfair contract.

I agree with you, I just don't know that it's an either-or situation. For example, maybe his health and questionable time keeping are having an effect on the nature of the contract. And he may be getting an unfair contract as you say, I'm just not certain.

[KHH]

Without the four members of Black Sabbath there is no Black Sabbath. Plain and simple.

The fact that this has happened twice and the fact that they did make the 11-11-11-announcement bash makes you wonder if... well... it might not be Tony and Ozzy, it just might be Mr. Bill Ward...

[Totentanz]

If there are genuinely 'forces' at work trying to screw over Bill, then my concern is that even if they sort out a fair contract for him then these 'forces' will still be there to fuck up the direction of the recording project. They'll still be there to have a hand in all of it, choking the life out of it, trying to influence details in the hope of grasping more cash and focusing glory in the 'right' place - imagine how shitty this could become.

I don't want an Ozzy solo album with Sabbath as a backing band. Sadly, even if this contract issue gets sorted I fear that the influence is still there to fuck this up.

Time for all four of them to man up and stand side by side to exclude all external bullshit. If they can't do that, then I think that the likes of us will be bitterly disappointed with what's coming... the critics of other eras may yet gain a full understanding of how the Ozzy era could potentially fuck this band's reputation more than any other. I hope behind the scenes things will work out and these guys get to do what THEY want.