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  1. #1
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Default Why Do You Like / Respect the Tony Martin Era?

    I am an Ozzy era fan, first and foremost. I grew up with that music and it left an impression on me. I like the Dio era, and I like the Tony Martin era a bit better than that. I am not a Tony Martin era fanboy by a long shot, but I do get frustrated with some of the commentary about why the Tony Martin era is garbage, etc. There is no doubt in my mind that the Sabbath name was made a mockery of during the time when there were more vocalists cycling through the band than albums being released, but there are three major constants in Sabbath: Ozzy, Dio, and Martin. Had Black Sabbath only consisted of these 3 front men, I think the chaos of the mid 80's would not have been such an integral, and frustrating, part of the Sabbath story. I like the Martin era, and we hear a lot of criticism of it, so if you like the Martin era, share it with us.

    The Martin era was very different in some respects than the other eras, and there were some heavy ballads, some '80's production qualities, and a somewhat faceless front man. Having said that, the music, when given a chance and not compared directly with the other eras, is really very good. Tyr and Cross Purposes are excellent, and the other albums are very solid. The '80's production qualities are criticized, but they are what they are. The music is an accurate representation of what was going on in the '80's, and although that sound is not in vogue with the masses today, it will eventually be respected for its uniqueness, just like the '50', '60's, and '70's were, and still are.

    Some say that the Martin era doesn't sound like Sabbath, and I agree that it doesn't sound like the Ozzy era, but then again, Led Zeppelin 1 does not sound like Led Zeppelin 3, or In Through the Out Door. Bands go through eras and sound changes, and that is a fact of life. Never Say Die was a vast departure from the Black Sabbath debut. I agree that some of the Martin era music sounds generic, but I personally found that to be very true of the Dio era as well, with a certain formula being applied to the Dio sound. It's pretty hard not to acknowledge that Martin has a great voice, although that is not always key to success.

    Anyway, the Martin era does not get the respect or the credit that I think it deserves, and I also think that if people gave it an honest listening too, they would find the good in it. I like it, and I love a few of the albums, especially Tyr. Turmoil and poor marketing have impacted on this era, but does that mean it's bad? Or has it been tainted by a hellish time in Sabbath History? Martin committed to Sabbath for a long time, and I think that he deserves to be recognized for his efforts. Tell us your thoughts, and why you like the Martin era.
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 06-01-2013 at 12:24 AM.
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  2. #2

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    You said it all.
    I think it's fantastic. None of it was innovative like the Ozzy stuff was at its time, but it's good music. Don't mind the Sabbath name on the record sleeves, could be called Bickety Bam for all that I care.

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  3. #3
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    Like you I grew up with the original Black Sabbath and the original was and still is my favorite, but I like and respect all Black Sabbath music. Tony Martin along with Tony kept Sabbath going for years. Hell he fronted more Sabbath albums than anyone other than Ozzy. I more than respect Tony M I think he they made absolutely killer music. Tyr is a great album. Especially love The Lawmaker - a heavy rocker that to me stands up with anything Sabbath ever did. I also love Cross Purposes, Psychophobia another Sabbath masterpiece. I saw this version of the band on a couple tours and Tony Martin impressed me especially on the cross purposes tour. The band sounded great and I really liked how Tony came across just as the singer of the band really enjoying the music and being himself without any pretense or trying to be like Ozzy or Ronnie. It was refreshing and he sounded really good and rocked! I also admired how much he respected the Sabbath legacy often paying great homage to the band as he introduced the songs. He's a class act.

  4. #4

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    I like and respect the Martin era a lot. I love the music for one thing. It has so much variety to it. Some of my first Sabbath tracks I listened to were Martin songs. Also it isn't overplayed like Paranoid, War Pigs, and Iron Man. The whole Black Sabbath moniker thing doesn't bother me at all. I understand bands do change lineups sometimes. Although granted I am not a longtime Sabbath fan, I've only been a fan for maybe about 4 years now. And I agree with you NID, Tony Martin didn't get the credit he deserved. He put many years in Sabbath and worked his ass off only to get moved around and pushed back constantly for the better situation. One thing that made me so happy was getting to tell Tony Martin himself through facebook how much I liked his music. And just reading his happy response meant so much to me. So I am indeed a Martin fan, I own all the Black Sabbath albums with him singing and most of his side stuff he sang on as well. I won't accept him getting bashed. Everyone has the right to an opinion. If you don't like Martin, that's fine, but you should at least politely acknowledge what he did. Because i'm not the only one that thinks this way as proven by members of this site.

  5. #5
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Sabbath View Post
    I like and respect the Martin era a lot. I love the music for one thing. It has so much variety to it. Some of my first Sabbath tracks I listened to were Martin songs. Also it isn't overplayed like Paranoid, War Pigs, and Iron Man. The whole Black Sabbath moniker thing doesn't bother me at all. I understand bands do change lineups sometimes. Although granted I am not a longtime Sabbath fan, I've only been a fan for maybe about 4 years now. And I agree with you NID, Tony Martin didn't get the credit he deserved. He put many years in Sabbath and worked his ass off only to get moved around and pushed back constantly for the better situation. One thing that made me so happy was getting to tell Tony Martin himself through facebook how much I liked his music. And just reading his happy response meant so much to me. So I am indeed a Martin fan, I own all the Black Sabbath albums with him singing and most of his side stuff he sang on as well. I won't accept him getting bashed. Everyone has the right to an opinion. If you don't like Martin, that's fine, but you should at least politely acknowledge what he did. Because i'm not the only one that thinks this way as proven by members of this site.
    That's a cool story. I'm not a facebooker, but I hope that Tony tunes in to this and sees some of the positive feedback. He deserves to know that what he did mattered to fans, and probably kept Sabbath above ground for many years.


    Quote Originally Posted by Juniors Eyes View Post
    The band sounded great and I really liked how Tony came across just as the singer of the band really enjoying the music and being himself without any pretense or trying to be like Ozzy or Ronnie. It was refreshing and he sounded really good and rocked! I also admired how much he respected the Sabbath legacy often paying great homage to the band as he introduced the songs. He's a class act.
    So true. He did honor the legacy, and he was a classy guy. Even to this day, he doesn't sling mud, but he has every reason to.
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 06-01-2013 at 12:39 AM.
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  6. #6

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    All of the comments so far are interesting perspectives on the Martin era. I respect Tony Martin for what he did, he just happened to be in an uneviable position having to follow in the footsteps of some of hard rock's most influential and important singers. Despite the stigma that this era holds, I would never want to delete it from Sabbath's history. I admire the fact that he remains proud of the material he made with them, as well he should be. Although I personally don't consider this era to be Black Sabbath, I admire all of the LOYAL fans who still stand proudly behind it. Because, at the end of the day, I agree, SOME good tunes did emerge from this lineup. Great comments everybody.

  7. #7

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    I respect Tony Martin because of his obvious talent, work ethic, humble attitude and the way he kept coming back for Iommi although he ditched him whenever he had the chance to get Dio or Ozzy back.

    Martin era was genuinely good music, Eternal Idol and Headless Cross are at times brilliant even. TYR I think is a really bland and faceless album though - I get bored after 4 songs. But as good as the music at it's best was, I don't consider them as true Sabbath albums. Cross Purposes is the only one I do, because of Geezer.

    And the truth is that even if I really like the music Martin made with Sabbath, it can't touch the magic they created with Ozzy an Dio. And that's ultimately the reason Martin era line-ups never had much success. If a band presents a new line-up whose music isn't on par with the former glory days, the band is going to have a rough time maintaining the old fan base, not to talk about raking in new fans.
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  8. #8
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    I respect Tony Martin, because he stood in there all those years and came back whenever Tony called on him, he helped carry on the Sabbath name and put his all into the music, he tried and did an awesome job in doing so.

    The man deserves respect and recognition, to say any less about Tony Martin, is disrespectful, and distasteful to the man and Black Sabbath.
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  9. #9
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    For anyone reading this thread that hasn't heard all of the Martin era material, do yourself a favor and listen to Cross Purposes on You Tube. It really is amazing, and I dare say that Tony Martin was the second best Sabbath lyricist behind Geezer. An example is Cross of Thorns from Cross Purposes where he is singing about the tragedies seen in the Catholic / Protestant wars in England / Ireland. Really amazing stuff. It doesn't have that sinister vibe that the Ozzy era material has, but it is really excellent music nonetheless.
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  10. #10
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    This Era Of Black Sabbath Is So Under-rated, It's A Shame Because It's Bloody Brilliant. Tony Martin Has A Brilliant Voice And Performs The Sabbath Classic's As Good As Ozzy And Dio Did. Yes Bands Need A Line-up Change Or Musical Change And That's All That Sabbath Did in The 70's they were the leading heavy metal band of that decade with Ozzy. The Change of the late 80's and 90's was they were a Hard Rock Band with Tony Martin and they didn't disappoint in my opinion they are Heavy Metal and Hard Rock Legends. They Were Heavy Metal With Ozzy And Hard Rock With Tony Martin And Bit Of Both With Dio. Tony Martin should have his Sabbath Songs played more on radio, tv's etc that's what I think

  11. #11
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabbathsValhalla View Post
    This Era Of Black Sabbath Is So Under-rated, It's A Shame Because It's Bloody Brilliant. Tony Martin Has A Brilliant Voice And Performs The Sabbath Classic's As Good As Ozzy And Dio Did. Yes Bands Need A Line-up Change Or Musical Change And That's All That Sabbath Did in The 70's they were the leading heavy metal band of that decade with Ozzy. The Change of the late 80's and 90's was they were a Hard Rock Band with Tony Martin and they didn't disappoint in my opinion they are Heavy Metal and Hard Rock Legends. They Were Heavy Metal With Ozzy And Hard Rock With Tony Martin And Bit Of Both With Dio. Tony Martin should have his Sabbath Songs played more on radio, tv's etc that's what I think
    No one can sing the Ozzy songs but Ozzy, the only singer I saw do justice to Dio's songs was Ray Gillen, Tony Martin does well on his own songs.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    No one can sing the Ozzy songs but Ozzy, the only singer I saw do justice to Dio's songs was Ray Gillen, Tony Martin does well on his own songs.
    This is something I think hurt the Tony Martin era deeply and is really the main reason I think that era shouldn't have been called "Black Sabbath". It had too much baggage, you can't really expect a band to please an audience with classics from two different eras, promote the new album and hold on to some classics from the current era, especially if you also throw in surprises in form of lesser known older songs (Changes, The Wizard etc). That is madness. Anyway, I don't agree with you that Ray Gillen did the Dio songs justice. Imo no one else than Dio (and Gillan on parts of H&H) does that imo. Same goes for Ozzy (again Gillan nailed some material, the full Black Sabbath and Rock 'n Roll Doctor for example). Gillen did some interesting work on Seventh Star as well but you get my point. In most cases, the singers sounded the best when they sang their own material, and often didn't even sound interesting enough for the Sabbath name when singing someone elses. This was much more problematic for Martin than anyone else as mentioned above. I wish Iommi had set them loose when they lost the Vertigo deal at least and free Martin from singing all that stuff live. If they had relied heavily (or even completely) on their own material the TYR line-up could have been great. As big as 70s Sabbath? No way, but with much more decency intact compared with how things turned out.

    As for why I like the Tony Martin era, I think the music and lyrics are very interesting, not trying to be like anything the band has done before and in some albums more than others changing directions quite often. While Eternal Idol was a band-effort minus Martin in the writing process with Martin on vocals, Headless Cross and TYR where power-metal albums with Martin having quite a lot of influence, Cross Purposes was more metal and not quite as grand and "power", with Geezer putting his mark on it all and Forbidden was a very personal album lyrically, shrinking the grander atmosphere from past efforts and adapting to (as well as at times fighting) strange ideas from the producer I would guess, it has conflicts written all over it. Quite an interesting and unique journey imo, but of course the actual music itself is great, but just saying that doesn't really contribute anything now does it? :D
    Last edited by Josef_K; 06-02-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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  13. #13
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josef_K View Post
    This is something I think hurt the Tony Martin era deeply and is really the main reason I think that era shouldn't have been called "Black Sabbath". It had too much baggage, you can't really expect a band to please an audience with classics from two different eras, promote the new album and hold on to some classics from the current era, especially if you also throw in surprises in form of lesser known older songs (Changes, The Wizard etc). That is madness. Anyway, I don't agree with you that Ray Gillen did the Dio songs justice. Imo no one else than Dio (and Gillan on parts of H&H) does that imo. Same goes for Ozzy (again Gillan nailed some material, the full Black Sabbath and Rock 'n Roll Doctor for example). Gillen did some interesting work on Seventh Star as well but you get my point. In most cases, the singers sounded the best when they sang their own material, and often didn't even sound interesting enough for the Sabbath name when singing someone elses. This was much more problematic for Martin than anyone else as mentioned above. I wish Iommi had set them loose when they lost the Vertigo deal at least and free Martin from singing all that stuff live. If they had relied heavily (or even completely) on their own material the TYR line-up could have been great. As big as 70s Sabbath? No way, but with much more decency intact compared with how things turned out.

    As for why I like the Tony Martin era, I think the music and lyrics are very interesting, not trying to be like anything the band has done before and in some albums more than others changing directions quite often. While Eternal Idol was a band-effort minus Martin in the writing process with Martin on vocals, Headless Cross and TYR where power-metal albums with Martin having quite a lot of influence, Cross Purposes was more metal and not quite as grand and "power", with Geezer putting his mark on it all and Forbidden was a very personal album lyrically, shrinking the grander atmosphere from past efforts and adapting to (as well as at times fighting) strange ideas from the producer I would guess, it has conflicts written all over it. Quite an interesting and unique journey imo, but of course the actual music itself is great, but just saying that doesn't really contribute anything now does it? :D
    In all seriousness, no one sings Ozzy/Sabbath but Ozzy, and the same goes for the Dio material, no one can sing it but Dio, not Ian Gillan not anyone, I could listen to Ray Gillen sing the Dio songs and enjoy it, but I can't say the same for Tony Martin singing the Ozzy songs and Dio songs, I don't enjoy them when he sings them, but I do enjoy listening to the songs Tony Martin did with Sabbath, maybe not all of them like I do the Ozzy and Dio songs, but then again I don't think I'd enjoy Ozzy singing the Martin songs either.
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  14. #14
    EDTRADER's Avatar
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    You can look at his era of Black Sabbath in some of these ways also.

    When you think of the Martin era, the line up that comes to most minds is Iommi, Martin, Powell, Murray, Nicholls.
    After Geezer who is the longest serving bass player : Neil Murray.
    After Bill who is the longest serving drummer : Cozy Powell. (under the official sabbath name that is)
    After Ozzy who is the longest serving singer : Tony Martin.

    And from an interview from Iommi he said the success of the TYR line up got Ronnie and Warner Bros interested in the band again.
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    Listening to my favorite Tony Martin cassette right now, Forbidden.

    Tony Martin I salute you!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDTRADER View Post
    You can look at his era of Black Sabbath in some of these ways also.

    When you think of the Martin era, the line up that comes to most minds is Iommi, Martin, Powell, Murray, Nicholls.
    After Geezer who is the longest serving bass player : Neil Murray.
    After Bill who is the longest serving drummer : Cozy Powell. (under the official sabbath name that is)
    After Ozzy who is the longest serving singer : Tony Martin.

    And from an interview from Iommi he said the success of the TYR line up got Ronnie and Warner Bros interested in the band again.
    I second this , good demonstration , EDTRADER . I ' ll always regret a direct successor of Tyr , with this typical line up . Too bad , really .
    The brilliant dynamic recreated with "Headless Cross" deserved another album in the same vein.
    The great "Cross Purposes" album was released in different circumstances .
    Tony Martin belongs to the Black Sabbath History forever .

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TYR66 View Post
    I second this , good demonstration , EDTRADER . I ' ll always regret a direct successor of Tyr , with this typical line up . Too bad , really .
    The brilliant dynamic recreated with "Headless Cross" deserved another album in the same vein.
    The great "Cross Purposes" album was released in different circumstances .
    Tony Martin belongs to the Black Sabbath History forever .
    Cross Purposes will be the next Tony Martin cassette I'll be soaking in, couldn't get that one used on CD though, also tried to see if I could get the Cross Purposes Live, CD that one wasn't available either. I have the Cross Purposes Live DVD.

    When my Amazon order comes in I'll finally have the Tony Martin era on CD minus Cross Purposes, but I wont give up.
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  18. #18
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    I respect the Martin era because that was what got me into Black Sabbath and music in general.

    I still remember I was just getting into rock music during that time, a friend of mine fancied Iron Maiden and I was listening to some of their stuff, a good friend of mine at school did not like Iron Maiden (still doesn't), and he lent me Headless Cross out of the blue without me even asking, saying that once I listened to this I would forget about Iron Maiden.

    I went home that day, popped the disc in on my CD player...and the rest as they say....is history

  19. #19

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    I think the biggest problem with the Martin-era material is that people have never heard it. Which goes back to the failure in marketing. I'm sure there are those who HAVE heard the material and don't like it, which is fine, and at least respectable. The same thing goes for Born Again and Seventh Star, people just don't know. I, for one, don't like Seventh Star (or Fused, for that matter) because I can't stand Glenn Hughes. But at least I've given them a spin. The mass population thinks that only Ozzy was ever in Sabbath, and a part of that knows that Dio was in Sabbath, but a very, very small portion even has any idea that Sabbath continued beyond Ozzy and Dio.

    I've given some people I know a taste of some of the "unknown" Sabbath, and usually they like it. That's not to say that it's the best material around, because it, truthfully, isn't. Some of it is very below average (I wouldn't say any of it outright sucks, because it doesn't) while some is only merely average, and others are pretty damn good. But that's the same for the other eras of Sabbath as well. I much prefer Headless Cross and TYR to Never Say Die! and Technical Ecstasy.

    It also doesn't help that still, to this day, it's like anything outside of Ozzy, Dio, and (occasionally) Gillan don't exist. The official website only acknowledges Ozzy, the Dio era (some say after having been forced by the lawsuit) had been trotted out as "Heaven & Hell" and not Black Sabbath, which I think, to an extent, hurt that project. The albums that included Martin are out of print (minus Eternal Idol) so most of it isn't really out there unless you look for it, or can luck out with a used copy.

    I, for one, would love to be able to walk into a Best Buy or something and be able to grab every Black Sabbath studio CD, as well as a live disc or two. But right now, all you get is Ozzy stuff, and occasionally I'll see "Heaven and Hell" or "Mob Rules". If/when that day comes, I'll be very happy. Until then, this stuff is still going to be the "dark years".

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenuxx View Post
    I, for one, would love to be able to walk into a Best Buy or something and be able to grab every Black Sabbath studio CD, as well as a live disc or two. But right now, all you get is Ozzy stuff, and occasionally I'll see "Heaven and Hell" or "Mob Rules". If/when that day comes, I'll be very happy. Until then, this stuff is still going to be the "dark years".
    You can buy them used on Amazon, like I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenuxx View Post
    I think the biggest problem with the Martin-era material is that people have never heard it. Which goes back to the failure in marketing. I'm sure there are those who HAVE heard the material and don't like it, which is fine, and at least respectable. The same thing goes for Born Again and Seventh Star, people just don't know. I, for one, don't like Seventh Star (or Fused, for that matter) because I can't stand Glenn Hughes. But at least I've given them a spin. The mass population thinks that only Ozzy was ever in Sabbath, and a part of that knows that Dio was in Sabbath, but a very, very small portion even has any idea that Sabbath continued beyond Ozzy and Dio.

    I've given some people I know a taste of some of the "unknown" Sabbath, and usually they like it. That's not to say that it's the best material around, because it, truthfully, isn't. Some of it is very below average (I wouldn't say any of it outright sucks, because it doesn't) while some is only merely average, and others are pretty damn good. But that's the same for the other eras of Sabbath as well. I much prefer Headless Cross and TYR to Never Say Die! and Technical Ecstasy.

    It also doesn't help that still, to this day, it's like anything outside of Ozzy, Dio, and (occasionally) Gillan don't exist. The official website only acknowledges Ozzy, the Dio era (some say after having been forced by the lawsuit) had been trotted out as "Heaven & Hell" and not Black Sabbath, which I think, to an extent, hurt that project. The albums that included Martin are out of print (minus Eternal Idol) so most of it isn't really out there unless you look for it, or can luck out with a used copy.

    I, for one, would love to be able to walk into a Best Buy or something and be able to grab every Black Sabbath studio CD, as well as a live disc or two. But right now, all you get is Ozzy stuff, and occasionally I'll see "Heaven and Hell" or "Mob Rules". If/when that day comes, I'll be very happy. Until then, this stuff is still going to be the "dark years".
    Why is it anytime an album or band fails it's a "marketing" problem? The reason TM era Sabbath didn't sell in the USA, is because our expectations are obviously much higher than Europe's and the rest of the World, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone is it? I'm not trying to be condensending, or egotistical, it is what it is... Americans demand the best, in ourselves and the products we buy... we aren't going to buy a Mercedes if it has a Ford or Chevy motor in it, not knocking Ford or Chevy, they make good cars but they don't cost what a Mercedes does... because their quality doesn't match it..if your paying premium for a brand with a great history, why would you buy it when it's been watered down and rebadged and sold as something it's not...? We want GENUINE... not imitation...
    Last edited by Wicked Cricket; 06-10-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    You can buy them used on Amazon, like I did.
    Well, yeah, that's what I did too. Some people don't know that though, or care to actually give it a good look to get the albums that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Why is it anytime an album or band fails it's a "marketing" problem? The reason TM era Sabbath didn't sell in the USA, is because our expectations are obviously much higher than Europe's and the rest of the World, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone is it? I'm not trying to be condensending, or egotistical, it is what it is... Americans demand the best, in ourselves and the products we buy... we aren't going to buy a Mercedes if it has a Ford or Chevy motor in it, not knocking Ford or Chevy, they make good cars but they don't cost what a Mercedes does... because their quality doesn't match it..if your paying premium for a brand with a great history, why would you buy it when it's been watered down and rebadged and sold as something it's not...? We want GENUINE... not imitation...
    Again, that's all a matter of opinion. Metallica's Black Album was totally different in style from Master of Puppets. Some say it was watered down, they "sold out", or whatever. The Black Album was, and still is, Metallica's best selling album ever. Van Halen with Sammy Hagar has a completely different style to Van Halen with David Lee Roth. Same bands, different musical style.

    You can love/hate the Martin era, or Born Again, or Seventh Star, and that's fine. But saying it's an imitation? I don't agree with that. If it's imitation, then anything outside of music made by Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and Bill is an imitation. That, after all, was the "genuine" and "original" band. Does that mean the Dio era sucks? Hell no. Again, the Tony Martin era wasn't, by any means, the best music made by Black Sabbath, but it was still Sabbath, like it or not. It doesn't deserve to be ignored and pissed on the way it is.

    And I do wholeheartedly believe it had a ton to do with marketing. It was marketed in Europe, and did much better there. Metal, in general, does better in Europe. It seems to be marketed better there. Whereas here, in the U.S., the stuff that's marketed are the Justin Biebers and Lady Gagas and Kanye Wests. Maybe that's an observation of American society, who knows. Completely different subject there.

  23. #23
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenuxx View Post
    It doesn't deserve to be ignored and pissed on the way it is.

    And I do wholeheartedly believe it had a ton to do with marketing. It was marketed in Europe, and did much better there. Metal, in general, does better in Europe. It seems to be marketed better there. Whereas here, in the U.S., the stuff that's marketed are the Justin Biebers and Lady Gagas and Kanye Wests. Maybe that's an observation of American society, who knows. Completely different subject there.
    I agree. Marketing was definitely an issue, and as I stated when I started this thread, the Black Sabbath name had been used, abused, and trivialized for several years, with continual line-up and singer changes (including Hughes and Gillen), and I think there was a lot of listener apathy that developed as a result. I can remember those days well, and although I loved the Ozzy era, and liked the Dio era, I really had no interest in trying to figure out and identify with another Sabbath line-up, and I think there were many in the same boat. That is where marketing shoves it down your throat, and makes you take notice; or at least it makes you think about what you might be missing, and it can pique the interest of old fans, and bring new ones on board. I agree that the Martin era is definitely Black Sabbath, and I think a lot of the music is fantastic. I also agree with Wicked Cricket, that to some, it could feel like the new era was imitation Sabbath for the reasons I stated earlier. I am just glad that I have discovered the Martin era music, and that I can enjoy it now, because it is very worthy of the name, if not completely traditional to the original styles. A chance discovery of a mint copy of the Tyr CD, at a thrift store, got me started on the Martin era, and although it is not my favorite era, my life has definitely been enriched by it. And let us not forget that Mr Martin was very loyal to our band, and gave it some stability that had been woefully lacking for some time.
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 06-10-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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    I'll say one thing about the Martin era since I've started listening to it, it's kind of hard to describe for me, it's something I could listen too when I'm reading something online or researching something, it is weird I can't describe it, it's something I can absorb and appreciate, almost soothing in a weird way.

    The music is great, Tony Martin sings well, the Tony Martin album that gets me grooving though, is the Forbidden album, I think that one is more in the headbanging Sabbath tradition, where the other albums sort of tell a story.

    I just ordered 3 Tony Martin/Sabbath CD's which I'm anxiously awaiting for them to arrive, I had to buy them used, but what the hell at least I'll have them on CD, instead of having to listen to them on cassette.

    Like NowInDarkness stated above, Tony Martin deserves respect, he was loyal and kept our band alive and going, and has been the longest standing vocalist since Ozzy Osbourne, If I were ever to meet the man in person, I would extend my hand out and thank him for doing so, and tell him how much he is respected and appreciated.
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    I respect TM as a singer and musician, but I see no reason why T.I. had to "keep the band going", or keep the name going..? The name was tarnished, particularly in the US, which demands much higher scrutany and effort from bands, the TM era was ignored so the jury was out, we see the original band's new stuff being eagerly accepted... the TM era would have been a very good T.I. solo band and the music would have stood on it's own as Tony's solo stuff...no way in Hell people in the US were going to support a band with 1 original member... I don't care if he is a Guitar god.. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Deep Purple sued their original bass player Nick Simper.. because he tried touring under the DP name... would everyone here have been so eager to "accept" Black Sabbath had Ozzy continued on under their name without any of the others, or Geezer...? I'll say this, had Ozzy continued on, his voice is their signature like any band's, even though the guitar is so key, most people, not us here because we're die hards but the majority of the public wouldn't have noticed that much of a difference had Ozzy carried on under their name, it would have sounded much more like the original Sabbath than even the Dio and TM era's did... like I said before, I have all these albums, but I'm still not pleased they carried the name on under such false premises...

    ---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenuxx View Post
    Well, yeah, that's what I did too. Some people don't know that though, or care to actually give it a good look to get the albums that way.



    Again, that's all a matter of opinion. Metallica's Black Album was totally different in style from Master of Puppets. Some say it was watered down, they "sold out", or whatever. The Black Album was, and still is, Metallica's best selling album ever. Van Halen with Sammy Hagar has a completely different style to Van Halen with David Lee Roth. Same bands, different musical style.

    You can love/hate the Martin era, or Born Again, or Seventh Star, and that's fine. But saying it's an imitation? I don't agree with that. If it's imitation, then anything outside of music made by Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and Bill is an imitation. That, after all, was the "genuine" and "original" band. Does that mean the Dio era sucks? Hell no. Again, the Tony Martin era wasn't, by any means, the best music made by Black Sabbath, but it was still Sabbath, like it or not. It doesn't deserve to be ignored and pissed on the way it is.

    And I do wholeheartedly believe it had a ton to do with marketing. It was marketed in Europe, and did much better there. Metal, in general, does better in Europe. It seems to be marketed better there. Whereas here, in the U.S., the stuff that's marketed are the Justin Biebers and Lady Gagas and Kanye Wests. Maybe that's an observation of American society, who knows. Completely different subject there.
    Well Metallica was the same band all the same members... and VH had a different singer which was OK because I accepted the MKII version of Sabbath with Dio... but by MKIII, and MKIV and MKV it does get a little rediculous don't cha think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    I respect TM as a singer and musician, but I see no reason why T.I. had to "keep the band going", or keep the name going..? The name was tarnished, particularly in the US, which demands much higher scrutany and effort from bands, the TM era was ignored so the jury was out, we see the original band's new stuff being eagerly accepted... the TM era would have been a very good T.I. solo band and the music would have stood on it's own as Tony's solo stuff...no way in Hell people in the US were going to support a band with 1 original member... I don't care if he is a Guitar god.. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Deep Purple sued their original bass player Nick Simper.. because he tried touring under the DP name... would everyone here have been so eager to "accept" Black Sabbath had Ozzy continued on under their name without any of the others, or Geezer...? I'll say this, had Ozzy continued on, his voice is their signature like any band's, even though the guitar is so key, most people, not us here because we're die hards but the majority of the public wouldn't have noticed that much of a difference had Ozzy carried on under their name, it would have sounded much more like the original Sabbath than even the Dio and TM era's did... like I said before, I have all these albums, but I'm still not pleased they carried the name on under such false premises...

    ---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------



    Well Metallica was the same band all the same members... and VH had a different singer which was OK because I accepted the MKII version of Sabbath with Dio... but by MKIII, and MKIV and MKV it does get a little rediculous don't cha think?
    I have to agree with you Wicked Cricket, Ozzy's voice is signature to Sabbath, when one thinks of Sabbath, they think of Ozzy, no doubt about it.

    Tony Iommi should've carried on without using the Sabbath moniker, I'm in total agreement. And to be more honest with you, I don't think I would've given the Martin albums a chance had the Sabbath name not been on them, but I am glad that I did.

    I have a feeling that it wasn't so much the record companies that made Mr. Iommi use the Sabbath name with his credentials and reputation, I'm sure he could've released the Glen Hughes and Tony Martin albums under any name, I think it suited him to release the albums under the Black Sabbath name, because he new us diehard fans would purchase them regardless. I don't buy into the record companies did it.

    I love the Dio era Sabbath and the Gillan album and would have bought them under different band names, I like them that much, I have all the Elf, Rainbow/Dio and Dio solo records.

    Now the Martin era I am just really starting to get into, a lot of good songs on the Martin era, one thing we have to remember Ronnie James Dio and Ian Gillan were big names already and well known when they became a part of Sabbath, Tony Martin was not.
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    Man, I'm really getting into this Tony Martin/Sabbath, I think Doc may have turned me into a Tony Martin convert, I just bought most of his stuff on CD, something I've always had but on cassette, I had to buy them used though as they are out of print, but I just listened to two Tony Martin/Sabbath CD's back to back today, and enjoyed them, first was Tyr and then Headless Cross.

    Now all I need is the Cross Purpose CD which I'm waiting to be delivered and my Tony Martin/Sabbath collection will be complete, minus the Sabbath Stones compilation CD and Cross Purposes Live CD, which is almost impossible to get, cause it was released as a combo packaged with the DVD which I have, but not the CD.
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    Still to discover these albums yet,
    Looking forward to it, I'll just get 13 out my system first or they won't get the attention I'm hoping they deserve.
    Sabbath!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralarchitectx1 View Post
    Still to discover these albums yet,
    Looking forward to it, I'll just get 13 out my system first or they won't get the attention I'm hoping they deserve.
    A lot of good songs on the Martin era, take your time Spiral it took me awhile to get into them, I'm just starting now, hell I just bought them on CD, I've been listening to the Martin era on cassette.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    A lot of good songs on the Martin era, take your time Spiral it took me awhile to get into them, I'm just starting now, hell I just bought them on CD, I've been listening to the Martin era on cassette.
    What album is Valhalla on?, love all that Viking mythology!!!
    We have a really cool dark water ride at a theme park in uk called Valhalla.
    Sabbath!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralarchitectx1 View Post
    What album is Valhalla on?, love all that Viking mythology!!!
    We have a really cool dark water ride at a theme park in uk called Valhalla.
    Valhalla is on TYR, just got that one in the mail today, I love Norse and Viking Mythology, the Vikings were badass, and one day hope to visit Norway.

    Check out Anno Mundi, on that album as well.
    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Valhalla is on TYR, just got that one in the mail today, I love Norse and Viking Mythology, the Vikings were badass, and one day hope to visit Norway.

    Check out Anno Mundi, on that album as well.
    Apart from the whole rape and pillage thing, yeah Vikings kick arse!, Norway kicks are, Norwegian people kick arse!
    Love Scandinavia so much!

    Cheers oid, tyr will be the first Mr Martin album I check out in a few months.
    Sabbath!!

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    Simple, i love the music. Also Tony Martin put EVERYTHING he had into it, only to be fired, rehired, and fired again. He even damaged his voice, which i believe happened because he did the cross purposes tour sick because he has never been the same since. I know Forbidden is generally looked down on and sure it is my least favorite sabbath album but its not THAT bad.

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    I am a original line up man myself, but the way I look at it, Tony Martin era music was still better than most crap they played on the radio at the time. And, after watching the DVD Cross Purposes Live, I gotta say I actually think he sang at least as good as Dio, and in some respects better. It is weird, on the albums, I understand the words with Dio better, but on that live DVD, I could understand everything Tony was singing. And he just seemed like a nice dude.
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    I don't like it
    I don't respect it

    Don't push me, I'm out

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    Apart from Forbidden, I can't count how many times I listened to TM songs, but I think it's more than I listened to Dio's and way more than Ozzy's. I have a huge respect and gratitude for this man because he kept the Sabbath going and provided great lyrics such as Headless Cross and Anno Mundi, two of my Sabbath's all-time favorites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diego3336 View Post
    Apart from Forbidden, I can't count how many times I listened to TM songs, but I think it's more than I listened to Dio's and way more than Ozzy's. I have a huge respect and gratitude for this man because he kept the Sabbath going and provided great lyrics such as Headless Cross and Anno Mundi, two of my Sabbath's all-time favorites.
    Great !
    welcome on BSO , Diego !!

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    I like and respect the Tony Martin era because it's chock full of great music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korps View Post
    I like and respect the Tony Martin era because it's chock full of great music.
    Haha. Indeed brother. Indeed. Well said.
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    Chock full of nuts is that Heavely coffee... Heavenly coffee...Heavenly coffee..." Anyone old enough to remember that one?

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