For those who like ozzy sabbath only...i want to know why?

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

COZY POWELL
All I want to say is that one of the benifits to embracing all Sab is there was so much talent involved. I watched Cozy play Die Young last night during the Martin era, and Holy CRUD he is pure thunder. If only the line-up at Radio City had him, an absolute octopus, the show would be hard to beat... as far as talent! !

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

I really hope and pray the new album won't suck THAT much...

OMG...like a cow staring at a new fence, I'm bewildered by what you say.

[Damian]

Please stay on topic. As noted by others, this subject gets brought up again and again, in slightly different variants. Nothing wrong with comparing Mach I Sabbath to Van Halen or anything else, as long as Sabbath is a part of your post. Insults or baiting of members will not be tolerated.

Carry on, thanks.

D.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

COZY POWELL All I want to say is that one of the benifits to embracing all Sab is there was so much talent involved. I watched Cozy play Die Young last night during the Martin era, and Holy CRUD he is pure thunder. If only the line-up at Radio City had him, an absolute octopus, the show would be hard to beat... as far as talent! !

---------- Post added at 02:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------

do i need to remind those that are bound by chains and living in a cave, that black sabbath is all of those eras and line-up changes and thank god! I mean look at all the greatness that has resulted from iommis efforts. I mean, sure ian gillan was jesus and shocked people with his ability to sing like he did in child in time but...disturbing the priest???! Who ever could do that. Blackmore couldn't have taken ian there..it's off the hook. Secondly, dios solo carrier was throne into stardom as a result of sab. Not that he wasn't great, but like ozzy would have never reach such success. Tony martin also flourished from the sabbath arena. I can't imagine nor will it go down in history books that black sabbath had but one limited incarnation. Never say die era was washed up i mean ozzy had to go and bill ward, bless his 1970 paris-soul wasn't functioning. Who mind you still produced and worked hard on the music ...mr. Tony iommi..and he built sabbath even stronger..then as the revolving door turned iommi took what he had and persevered creating what is 'black sabbath'. Sure without the floppy fingered jack-hammer geezer butler you don't get that wall of sound but even the house that i built isn't perfect. I will not be surprised if in 100 years from now you will learn about the sab camp in your universities...the sabbath family tree is a colossal entity that can not be denied it's greatness. To think of them as just an osbourne thing is ignorance at it's worst..you are entitled to your opinion but should read Plato's parable of the cave.

[Monster Boy]

A simple observation, not backed up by any scientific evidence, but just hear me out. I'm an Ozzy era only guy for the most part. I do like some tracks here and there from the rest, the songs "Neon Knights" and "Heaven and Hell" are actually right up there for me, but it's okay to label me as Ozzy only. Rather than being close minded however, I would say I'm far from it. If you take a look at my taste in music, it pretty much runs the gamut. My music collection includes Sun Ra, Miles Davis, King Crimson, Beethoven, Schoenberg, Stockhausen, Josquin duPrez, Kiss, Simon and Garfunkel, Frank Zappa, Robert Johnson, Beck, Minutemen, James Brown, Andrew Lloyd Webber, The Decemberists, The Chieftains, etc...artists from many different styles and eras (the standard "anything but rap or country" music collection, although I do like old school Hank Williams the elder, Johnny Cash, and some Snoop Dogg and Run DMC among others, just haven't purchased any of that. Oh...no boy bands either). Now comes the unscientific part: The argument could be made that the majority of people who like "all eras of Sabbath" actually have much narrower taste in music overall: metal and classic rock for the most part. Which sounds more open minded?

So that's just an uneducated guess, those of you with wide ranging music tastes (stemming beyond metal and classic rock) who love all eras of Sabbath, feel free to bap me over the head. And even if you are a "metal and classic rock only" type of guy the cause could be many things other than close mindedness. Maybe you've just realized that they are the two most incredibly awesome forms of musical expression ever created The main point is that "open mindedness" could lead to somebody actually enjoying less music from one particular artist but more from the music world in general, while "close mindedness" could be found in adoring fans who love everything their favorite artist dishes out but hate everything else. Hypothetically. Keep an open mind concerning what constitutes open mindedness is all.

I am curious though Iommigeezwallofsound: what kind of music do you like?

[Billy Underdog]

do i need to remind those that are bound by chains and living in a cave, that black sabbath is all of those eras and line-up changes and thank god! I mean look at all the greatness that has resulted from iommis efforts. I mean, sure ian gillan was jesus and shocked people with his ability to sing like he did in child in time but...disturbing the priest???! Who ever could do that. Blackmore couldn't have taken ian there..it's off the hook. Secondly, dios solo carrier was throne into stardom as a result of sab. Not that he wasn't great, but like ozzy would have never reach such success. Tony martin also flourished from the sabbath arena. I can't imagine nor will it go down in history books that black sabbath had but one limited incarnation. Never say die era was washed up i mean ozzy had to go and bill ward, bless his 1970 paris-soul wasn't functioning. Who mind you still produced and worked hard on the music ...mr. Tony iommi..and he built sabbath even stronger..then as the revolving door turned iommi took what he had and persevered creating what is 'black sabbath'. Sure without the floppy fingered jack-hammer geezer butler you don't get that wall of sound but even the house that i built isn't perfect. I will not be surprised if in 100 years from now you will learn about the sab camp in your universities...the sabbath family tree is a colossal entity that can not be denied it's greatness. To think of them as just an osbourne thing is ignorance at it's worst..you are entitled to your opinion but should read Plato's parable of the cave.

There's no need to shout, we've heard it all well before.
And apparently, it's you who thinks of it as an "Osbourne-thing", i just think about it as a band.
Try to grasp the fact that not everyone has the exact musical outlook as yourself or not, either way, stop repeating yourself, or just let it lie dead...
Seems like you're the one bound by chains...

[nunoni]

Now comes the unscientific part: The argument could be made that the majority of people who like "all eras of Sabbath" actually have much narrower taste in music overall: metal and classic rock for the most part.

well... I am a Ozzy/Dio only guy, so where does that place me in your argument? As for variety, I have more classical music CDs than metal, then a lot of other stuff including French chanson, Portuguese Fado, progressive psychedelic trance (usually called "Goa"), and what have you. I do tend to concentrate on one genre for a period, then discover something else, then go back. I don't listen to Black Sabbath, Edit Piaf and Sibelius all on the same day.

So, I don't agree with your take. Actually, my unscientific take is that Dio fans (which I am) are usually a lot more musically open minded than Ozzy fans. In fact, I tend to look at Ozzy solo as mostly forgettable party music, while Dio solo is mostly serious stuff.

Whatever way I look at it, I don't understand an argument that starts with "people who limit themselves to a narrow corner of the Sabbath universe" and ends with "have a less narrow taste". Sounds like a contradiction to me. But then again, I do limit myself to two corners of the Sabbath universe

[Monster Boy]

well... I am a Ozzy/Dio only guy, so where does that place me in your argument?

That places you in the "feel free to bap me over the head" category Now, the fact that you differ does not mean that the trend doesn't exist though. Not that I'm saying the trend does exist ya see, but one case doesn't in itself defeat a trend. But since you are Dio/Ozzy only you don't fit into the "loves all eras equally" camp anyways so the point is moot. Also, I don't really subscribe to my "theory", just a casual observation that shows just how subjective terms like "open minded" can be.

On another note, with your Ozzy solo vs Dio solo comment you seem to equate liking "serious" music to being open minded and lighter music to close minded. I'd say one who can enjoy serious and light is more open minded than one who likes just one or the other, but liking just serious music does not make you more open minded than somebody who likes fluffier stuff: It just shows that you have different tastes.

[Billy Underdog]

Dio fans are usually a lot more musically open minded than Ozzy fans.

I don't think the debate of which fans are most open-minded really was Monster Boy's point

In fact, I tend to look at Ozzy solo as mostly forgettable party music, while Dio solo is mostly serious stuff.

Why is it that everyone seem to think that an Ozzy-Sabbath only-guy automatically must be an Ozzy solo-fan? I don't think that all you Dio-Sab-guys must automatically be Dio solo-fans... Thats just as stupid as beliving that just because one likes early Sabbath (or any era, for that matter), one must like all Sabbath...

[Formerly Riffs]

Tony martin also flourished from the sabbath arena. I can't imagine nor will it go down in history books that black sabbath had but one limited incarnation. Never say die era was washed up i mean ozzy had to go and bill ward, bless his 1970 paris-soul wasn't functioning. Who mind you still produced and worked hard on the music ...mr. Tony iommi..and he built sabbath even stronger..then as the revolving door turned iommi took what he had and persevered creating what is 'black sabbath'. Sure without the floppy fingered jack-hammer geezer butler you don't get that wall of sound but even the house that i built isn't perfect. I will not be surprised if in 100 years from now you will learn about the sab camp in your universities...the sabbath family tree is a colossal entity that can not be denied it's greatness.

LOL

I'm trying to picture it. A bunch of folks in a university studying the big ball of cheese that was Feels Good To Me trying desperately to find "greatness" in that stinker to justify tuition.

If this is what lies down the road a hundred years from now, then mankind's future is much bleaker than it was ever depicted by Black Sabbath.

[Billy Underdog]

I'm trying to picture it. A bunch of folks in a university studying the big ball of cheese that was Feels Good To Me trying desperately to find "greatness" in that stinker to justify tuition.

If this is what lies down the road a hundred years from now, then mankind's future is much bleaker than it was ever depicted by Black Sabbath.

HAH! Quote of the day!

[Monster Boy]

I feel the same about that university that had a beatle program and other music courses that explain the importance of countless acts. I like Feels Good to me, it's not brilliant. But also the case could be made for anything, including the song Black Sabbath. People were humming that tune for centuries probably before Sabbath wrote it. No reason to have Rolling Stone or Village Voice say this is where this began. I see the whole "music journalism" business as one huge joke. Talking about music is fine to keep one entertained but when I see articles using a string of adjectives and wordy authoritative sentences to describe sounds, I can only think 'oh you pompous git'.

I see where you are coming from here, but I also see value in the academic study of music being extended to popular styles. Having studied music at some universities and encountered the bias against popular music in that sphere led me to write my master's thesis on Sabbath (for reals!) Now, it was kind of a piece of crap paper in the end, written mainly just so I could get my degree, but it did open an ear or two of some snobby types, er well, I don't know if it did, but they passed me in any case. That sentence made absolutely no point whatsoever... anyways the intellectual study of music can be pretty interesting if you are familiar with all the terms, and if you perhaps want to write music yourself, or just enjoy analysis. Or are a pompous git like me

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

I am curious though Iommigeezwallofsound: what kind of music do you like?[/QUOTE]

Dwight Yoakum, Alanis Morrisette, Black Sabbath, Rush, (early stuff), Maiden (mostly early), Panterra, Elton John, Carol King, Zep, Motley Crue (first two albums), Whitesnake, Soundgarden, Black Crows, Creed, Metallica, Osbourne up to Bark...Randy Rhodes born April 5, 1956 RIP. Beatles, U2, Journey. are some of my faves

[nunoni]

I don't think that all you Dio-Sab-guys must automatically be Dio solo-fans...

actually... I never found anyone who liked Dio/Sabb of the HH/Mob Rules era and didn't like Holy Diver. And I never found anyone who liked Dehumanizer and didn't like Strange Highways. That's another unscientific take.

And your argument about Ozzy/Sabb and Ozzy solo would only mean anything to me if there was also some distinction somewhere between early 70s Black Sabbath and mid/late 70s. To put Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy in the same bag as Vol. 4 and the previous albums is something I don't understand very well, in my own unscientific way - same musicians, but making unrelated music. Heaven and Hell is closer to Paranoid than TE or NSD are - again, in my own personal way of looking at it.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

I see where you are coming from here, but I also see value in the academic study of music being extended to popular styles. Having studied music at some universities and encountered the bias against popular music in that sphere led me to write my master's thesis on Sabbath (for reals!) Now, it was kind of a piece of crap paper in the end, written mainly just so I could get my degree, but it did open an ear or two of some snobby types, er well, I don't know if it did, but they passed me in any case. That sentence made absolutely no point whatsoever... anyways the intellectual study of music can be pretty interesting if you are familiar with all the terms, and if you perhaps want to write music yourself, or just enjoy analysis. Or are a pompous git like me

A paper on Sabbath eh? Right on..I hate to say this, but the name Black Sabbath never and will never help them. I don't really care for the name (raised catholic) but I did take Jazz Appreciation in college and found the Dizzy Gillespies of the time sounded a heck of a lot like Iommi, esp. the improve stuff, but Iommi is just as good. His playing is undoubtedly Jazz influenced.
I was raised around classical music my whole life and that's why I love the playing of Randy Rhodes. It took me a while to figure out what makes a good guitar player. If its all about arpasios and lightning fast sweeps, then I guess Steve Vai is king, but its people like Stevie Ray Vaughn that exemplify what music is. There's a lot about Sab and Iommi that is mediocre at best, but when its on, its on. With his limited style (jazz not classical) and light strings etc. I feel that he mastered his craft. It's nearly impossible for anyone to duplicate his sound and that is why his greatness will hold up to the test of time.[COLOR="silver"]

[Billy Underdog]

actually... I never found anyone who liked Dio/Sabb of the HH/Mob Rules era and didn't like Holy Diver. And I never found anyone who liked Dehumanizer and didn't like Strange Highways. That's another unscientific take.

And your argument about Ozzy/Sabb and Ozzy solo would only mean anything to me if there was also some distinction somewhere between early 70s Black Sabbath and mid/late 70s. To put Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy in the same bag as Vol. 4 and the previous albums is something I don't understand very well, in my own unscientific way - same musicians, but making unrelated music. Heaven and Hell is closer to Paranoid than TE or NSD are - again, in my own personal way of looking at it.

Still there's no reason to assume that an Ozzy/sab-fan must automatically be an Ozzy solo-fan...

And just because you never met anyone who like Dio/sab but not Dio solo, doesn't mean they don't exist.
My point was that it's futile to assume something like that based on no facts...

As for the whole "scientific"-thing, that was Monster Boy's thing, not mine.

---------- Post added at 04:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 AM ----------

Rush, (early stuff), Maiden (mostly early), Motley Crue (first two albums)

"I don't get how you can only like their early stuff, as they're the same bands later on too". NOW do you see how idiotic an assumption like that is?

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

Still there's no reason to assume that an Ozzy/sab-fan must automatically be an Ozzy solo-fan...

And just because you never met anyone who like Dio/sab but not Dio solo, doesn't mean they don't exist.
My point was that it's futile to assume something like that based on no facts...

As for the whole "scientific"-thing, that was Monster Boy's thing, not mine.

---------- Post added at 04:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 AM ----------



"I don't get how you can only like their early stuff, as they're the same bands later on too". NOW do you see how idiotic an assumption like that is?

It's fine that you have an opinion. I listed the stuff I grew up with. Dio was a talented dude. A musician and a great singer, widely known as one of the best. I even went to his funeral. Heaven and Hell is a GREAT Sabbath album. I didn't follow the bands I listed but was referring to the time they came out. They influenced me. You are entitled to your
Opinion but Osbourne cant hold a candle to the likes of Dio or GILLAN. Please. Maybe you like seeing his arse or getting water thrown on you IDK. All I know is that Osbourne can be creative and put out some great music with Randy Rhoads and with Brad Gillis and more. But that's not the point here. The point is that you think that Dio era Sabbath sucks. And also Cross Purposes, and I presume Born Again and Iommis solo stuff. And I'm saying it is excellent creative music. I don't like every track I.e. forbidden but would be an idiot to not recognize the greatness of Sab after Ozzy. You can have your opinion, and even tho its not shared by many may still appreciate it. If not, that's ok. I still can bring you over to the Dark Side.

[KHH]

It's fine that you have an opinion. I listed the stuff I grew up with. Dio was a talented dude. A musician and a great singer, widely known as one of the best. I even went to his funeral. Heaven and Hell is a GREAT Sabbath album. I didn't follow the bands I listed but was referring to the time they came out. They influenced me. You are entitled to your
Opinion but Osbourne cant hold a candle to the likes of Dio or GILLAN. Please. Maybe you like seeing his arse or getting water thrown on you IDK. All I know is that Osbourne can be creative and put out some great music with Randy Rhoads and with Brad Gillis and more. But that's not the point here. The point is that you think that Dio era Sabbath sucks. And also Cross Purposes, and I presume Born Again and Iommis solo stuff. And I'm saying it is excellent creative music. I don't like every track I.e. forbidden but would be an idiot to not recognize the greatness of Sab after Ozzy. You can have your opinion, and even tho its not shared by many may still appreciate it. If not, that's ok. I still can bring you over to the Dark Side.

I'd say that there are more people sharing Billy Underdogs views than yours. Although I think that the vast majority of hard rock listeners would say that Iommi-stringed music was great til Born Again and then it went downhill.
Every artist has it's peak.

[Billy Underdog]

It's fine that you have an opinion. I listed the stuff I grew up with. Dio was a talented dude. A musician and a great singer, widely known as one of the best. I even went to his funeral. Heaven and Hell is a GREAT Sabbath album. I didn't follow the bands I listed but was referring to the time they came out. They influenced me. You are entitled to your
Opinion but Osbourne cant hold a candle to the likes of Dio or GILLAN. Please. Maybe you like seeing his arse or getting water thrown on you IDK. All I know is that Osbourne can be creative and put out some great music with Randy Rhoads and with Brad Gillis and more. But that's not the point here. The point is that you think that Dio era Sabbath sucks. And also Cross Purposes, and I presume Born Again and Iommis solo stuff. And I'm saying it is excellent creative music. I don't like every track I.e. forbidden but would be an idiot to not recognize the greatness of Sab after Ozzy. You can have your opinion, and even tho its not shared by many may still appreciate it. If not, that's ok. I still can bring you over to the Dark Side.

That reply did not reflect my opinion, thats why i wrote it in quotation marks. I was just trying to make you see the similarity between you only liking early parts of a band, and me doing the same. That one apparently fell on deaf ears...

Take Maiden f.ex (and now this IS my opinion). I think Maiden with Di'Anno is pretty cool, but not with Dickinson, couse i can't stand his voice, and the bands playing started to become boring at that time. In fact, exactly the same reason as why i don't like later Sabbath.

As for Born Again, i find that the only acceptable non-Ozzy album. Why? Probably because i'm also a fan of Mk II Purple.
Iommi's six first solo-albums (the ones mislabeled Black Sabbath) i think is horrible, but the first one with his name on, Iommi, i think is great (well, exept the Billy Idol-track). The Iommi/Huges-albums i've never really checked out. Just so much other things that've comed before them...

[-V-]

In my experience the "Ozzy only" people are usually very vocal about it and will tell you everything after Ozzy sucks pretty much any chance they can get. Even in an Iron Maiden conversation...I wonder how much of the time those people have actually given Mob Rules or Born Again a chance, or even heard any post Ozzy stuff. Oh well, either way it doesn't effect my enjoyment of Cross Purposes or Seventh Star.

[Billy Underdog]

In my experience the "Ozzy only" people are usually very vocal about it and will tell you everything after Ozzy sucks pretty much any chance they can get. Even in an Iron Maiden conversation...I wonder how much of the time those people have actually given Mob Rules or Born Again a chance, or even heard any post Ozzy stuff. Oh well, either way it doesn't effect my enjoyment of Cross Purposes or Seventh Star.

Everything after Ozzy exept Born Again sucks. And i've heard it all alot.
Also, Bruce Dickinson & Blaze Bayley sucks, the only Maiden was with Paul Di'Anno.

[-V-]

Paul Di'Anno is fantastic with Maiden but I think Bruce walks all over him. BLaze was an odd choice...
Yeah it's weird how pro Ozzy usually means anti Maiden. It also usually means pro Sharon (/shudder) and pro Zakk Wylde is an actual motorcycle gang leader (he's not). I think the best Ozzy solo stuff is Blizzard and DIary and it's a very mixed bag after that.

[Billy Underdog]

Yeah it's weird how pro Ozzy usually means anti Maiden. It also usually means pro Sharon (/shudder).

Well, THAT one i refuse to get accused for. Although she probably saved Ozzy's life and made him a star again, she's a bitch i don't like. I'm really not the biggest Ozzy-solo-fan either. I just consider it good party-rock.

And my dislike for Maiden & Dickinson has nothing to do with Ozzy & Sharon, it's simply just boring music...

[-V-]

I've actually met Sharon and she was really nice to me (and from what I hear from others who have met her she was nice to them as well) but I don't like the way she treats people on the music business side of things. Egging Iron Maiden was just high school. And her need to be on television at all costs (even Ozzy image) is irritating.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

Upon further review, and after watching youtube videos, I stand my ground. Ozzy can't hold a candle to Dio or Gillan, or Martin (at least vocally) There is just no argument.

[Ady]

Upon further review, and after watching youtube videos, I stand my ground. Ozzy can't hold a candle to Dio or Gillan, or Martin (at least vocally) There is just no argument.

That's irrelevant to your original thread question though.

For those who like ozzy sabbath only...i want to know why?

I prefer the music Sabbath made with Ozzy BY FAR. I'm a huge fan of seventies hard rock. Eighties heavy metal? Not so much. The fact that Ozzy isn't as technically as good vocally as Dio, Gillan or Martin is so unimportant to me where the music is concerned. Ozzy's voice complemented the Sabbath sound perfectly.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

I prefer the music Sabbath made with Ozzy BY FAR. I'm a huge fan of seventies hard rock. Eighties heavy metal? Not so much. The fact that Ozzy isn't as technically as good vocally as Dio, Gillan or Martin is so unimportant to me where he music is concerned. Ozzy's voice complemented the Sabbath sound perfectly.[/QUOTE]
Well, I really dont think that Ozzy had the dynamics, that the others had. Iommi and Butler need that to bring out their best. Ozzy Sab has its place, but musically Iommi and Geezer were better fit to have someone with range and power.

[mikesline]

I just don't get it. I feel i should sit you down in front of some bose and a big screen, to watch radio city. Please explain what it is you are thinking?

probably cause your to young to have been there. ozzy era is black sabbath ,everything after that 1/2 sabbath

[Billy Underdog]

probably cause your to young to have been there. ozzy era is black sabbath ,everything after that 1/2 sabbath

I'm to young to have been there, but still it's the only Sabbath for me. This is more a matter of taste than age.

[-V-]

Had a stuffed wallet that day?

A stuffed wallet for me is CVS cards and $46 in one dollar bills.

[Chris Webster]

I was an Ozzy fan before I knew who Sabbath was. In 1986 I saw my first concert The Ultimate Sin and Master of Puppets Tour. I got to see Cliff Burton play shortly before he died, something I will always remeber (unless I get Alzheimers). Then I found out Ozzy was in BS and rented the vhs "Never Say Die!" and that blew me away. So I bought every BS/O record and thought that they recorded this music just for me. It was home, it was perfect, it was music I would make if I could. I never got into Dio's voice but respect the fact that he was an incredible singer. But listening to BS w/o Ozzy I felt would be betraying myself. Weird, but that's how I felt so fuck you. It would be like loving your step-parent more than your biological. I do like Ian Gillan's "Trashed"- that song rocks, I was burning and turning, the ground became my sky. I need to d/l that cd and give it a listen. I was introduced to Brian Johnson's AC/DC then Bon Scotts, I like them both. But for me, there is only one Black Sabbath and that is the original four lads from Birmingham ~Chris

[Wicked Cricket]

I'm a fan of all the incarnations, even if I don't agree they should all have been called BS, but, Tony Iommi is a great song architect and I'm a big fan of his. That said, I think someone like myself who grew up as a teen in the early 70's will always feel that the original band is 2nd to none. It's a completely different perspective than say a fan who came of age in the heavy metal 80's and discovered them durring say the Dio era, or wherever. It's hard to explain to someone just how different and dark and heavy they were, and mysterious in that time. There was no Heavy Metal genre of music,m they were THE heavy metal band, and to me, everything that came later sounded like a band trying to be BLACK SABBATH.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

I did grow up with Ozzy Sabbath. I use to write Ozzy across my knuckles. Albums like Sabotage and the Sleeper, Technical Ecstasy, were some of my favorites. But then I started playing Bass, Drums, and Guitar. I also fell in love with the song Stargazer, wow, I thought, what emotion..Then, Ian Gillan, I mean really, who could match him ??? Child in Time etc. Now here is how the limited short themselves. I am a HUGE Geezer Butler fan. The bass on Faries Wear Boots, War Pigs etc. NOW...Listen to Die Young, Falling Off The Edge of the World, Eye Witness, or Disturbing the Priest.etc.. HOLY CRAP! Geezers a Jackhammer... Then Lonely is the Word, Turn Up the Night, Over and Over, Heart Like a Wheel, Lost Forever, ...Holy Crap, Iommi has taken things to a higher level as well. So add to that, a Drummer like Cozy, or Rodinelli, and lofl, Its Huge. Im proud to be a Black Sabbath Fan ...But those who would rather have water thrown on them, or watch the Clown Osbourne BA you, as he Zombies around the stage...cool, but Give Me A Fuckin Break. Actual dont, Ill see you at the show, Ill be wearing a Born Again shirt and soluting Iommi and Geezer with Devil Horns.

[TheElfoid]

I don't know how valid of a reason "grew up with Ozzy" should be. Most of us younger folk (I was born in '89, I got into music, including Sabbath, in '03), have been raised on the Sharon Osbourne version of the band's history, where everything after Ozzy left in 1978 until the 1997 reunion didn't happen. We're as indoctrinated with the idea of an Ozzy-only Sabbath and yet I've branched out from there just fine. Most people my age that I knew were pretty swift to adapt to the Heaven & Hell thing when it came out.

What has been harder has been convincing people that Sabbath existed without Ozzy or Ronnie. I find most people my age are pretty reluctant to investigate the rest of the band's history.

I'll admit I'm the same in that I've yet to get around to checking out the rest particularly. I loved both Iommi solo albums, I know Ozzy's best stuff, I'm a big fan of Dio, but the only non Ozzy/Dio Sabbath stuff I've heard (excluding Tony's solo albums) is Born Again. I've just not gotten around to it. Given I'm seeing Tony Martin in July, and due to interview him soon hopefully, I intend to wise up on it. Instant I saw the gig date I thought "I know he's a great singer, and I love Sabbath. I'm gonna want to go", and now I'm checking it out and I love Headless Cross. But yeah....I'd say rather than the "why do you only like Ozzy?" question being asked here, I think the goalposts have moved to "why do you only like Ozzy/Dio?".

I think Tony's book has helped make people aware he did other things under the Sabbath name, and Heaven & Hell raised his profile a ton - Heaven & Hell gave rise to the idea that the Sabbath name wasn't just the name of Ozzy's backing band, which to so many people was all it stood for. I would hope that light continues to be shed on the Tony Martin / Glenn Hughes stuff.

[Monster Boy]

I think Tony's book has helped make people aware he did other things under the Sabbath name, and Heaven & Hell raised his profile a ton - Heaven & Hell gave rise to the idea that the Sabbath name wasn't just the name of Ozzy's backing band, which to so many people was all it stood for. I would hope that light continues to be shed on the Tony Martin / Glenn Hughes stuff.

I've heard this notion several times that to many, Sabbath was Ozzy's backing band. I have yet to meet anybody who actually thought that was the case though. Not saying they don't exist, they might. Anyways, it seems that you assume that people who don't like the Tony Martin era think that Sabbath was Ozzy's backing band, or that those people just aren't aware of the Tony Martin era. Maybe you don't actually assume that, it just seems that way from your post. That people have different tastes in music accounts for at least 50% of the cases though, I would think.

[IommiGeezWallofSound]

Elfoid, Im impressed. Heaven and Hell, the band, is, was, and forever will be Black Sabbath. Ozzys wife, Sharnone, has promotional aptitude for sure, but is also no friend of Black Sabbath. I mean, supposedly, the song, Digital Bitch, on the Born Again album was referring to the likes of her. I am not bashing the creative side of Osbourne, however both Iommi and Geezer have stated that its more of circus when hes the frontman and its obvious that a singer who can be dynamic and powerful compliments there powerful and dynamic music. If I were you, Id listen to one of Sabs best, hands down,... Cross Purposes (Martin), and also the best live Gillan / Sabbath, where youll here it all come together, is from Worcester, Massachusets. I never thought anyone could sing signature songs, like Ozzys Black Sabbath or Dio's Heaven and Hell, better than they do, but its unbelievable. That show also goes under the name Born in Hell, but is not an official release. Youtube The song Black Sabbath, Worcester,MA, and you will be awed for the rest of your life.

[Wicked Cricket]

No one growing up in the 70's thought of Sabbath as Ozzy's backup band, he wasn't anywhere near the solo star or icon he is today, or became in the 80's, back then know one outside hardcore fans even knew their names.

[-E5150 StarWanderer-]

Elfoid, Im impressed. Heaven and Hell, the band, is, was, and forever will be Black Sabbath. Ozzys wife, Sharnone, has promotional aptitude for sure, but is also no friend of Black Sabbath. I mean, supposedly, the song, Digital Bitch, on the Born Again album was referring to the likes of her. I am not bashing the creative side of Osbourne, however both Iommi and Geezer have stated that its more of circus when hes the frontman and its obvious that a singer who can be dynamic and powerful compliments there powerful and dynamic music. If I were you, Id listen to one of Sabs best, hands down,... Cross Purposes (Martin), and also the best live Gillan / Sabbath, where youll here it all come together, is from Worcester, Massachusets. I never thought anyone could sing signature songs, like Ozzys Black Sabbath or Dio's Heaven and Hell, better than they do, but its unbelievable. That show also goes under the name Born in Hell, but is not an official release. Youtube The song Black Sabbath, Worcester,MA, and you will be awed for the rest of your life.

I respect your opinion, but I couldn't think more differently about Gillan singing the classic Ozzy/Dio songs. And please note that this comes from a big Gillan fan, but his versions of H&H and Neon Knights in particular were laughable, to me it's clear that his unique style just didn't fit those songs at all. And he usually ruined Ozzy era songs with excessive, over the top screaming. Gillan did good job with the song Black Sabbath though.

[Ady]

Im proud to be a Black Sabbath Fan ...But those who would rather have water thrown on them, or watch the Clown Osbourne BA you, as he Zombies around the stage...cool, but Give Me A Fuckin Break.

When a person says they prefer the Ozzy era of Black Sabbath, they're more likely to be referring to the actual music than the on stage antics of Ozzy Osbourne.

For instance, I wouldn't prefer the Dio era if Ronnie threw buckets of water at people and Ozzy didn't.

[devstorm]

I just don't get it. I feel i should sit you down in front of some bose and a big screen, to watch radio city. Please explain what it is you are thinking?

I respect your passion for any Black Sabbath music. Though, I need to ask, why concern yourself with the opinions of others? And why is it so important that you change anything that might not resemble your opinion?

[Totentanz]

I have listened to, and loved, all eras of this wonderful band. However there are differences in the extent of my love and I'll try and explain my reasons.

For me, the Ozzy era AND the first couple of Dio-fronted albums AND Born Again all have a unique majesty in the whole (the combination of music and vocals) that makes them monstrous, epic and amazing. This intangible 'magic' gives them longevity, I can still find that essence when I play them today. Cross Purposes, Eternal Idol, Seventh Star and even Dehumanizer are all great albums, but do not have that final spark that tips the balance to a full 10/10 experience.

The vocals make a big difference to me. I've seen the Martin line up play live 3 times. He's a great singer, there's no doubt about it. But there is something in his voice that seems to not quite fit. His performances are a bit too theatrical, his voice not quite rich enough, not emanating uniqueness like the others

The music too plays its part. The iconic solos became fewer in number, the riffing had to fit with that '80s style. Don't get me wrong, there is excellent music to be found, but in the early '80s it was still leading, whereas by the mid/late '80s it felt more like it was following external trends - if only partly.

Production didn't help either. This increased the impression of trend-hopping and made all the later albums appear weaker as a result. Where is the majesty in great leaders falling into a trend?

I stuck with Sabbath throughout all these periods, but have to admit that a lot of it was WANTING them to be great. And in a way, they were still great to an extent. But honestly, deep down, even as a die-hard turning up at the concerts (Ray Gillen and Tony Martin) and buying all the albums, I knew a piece of the magic was missing for me after Born Again. I was excited for Dehumanizer, but felt that too lacked some small piece.

For the record I have all Ozzy solo stuff, all Dio solo stuff and all his work with Rainbow and Elf. I only strongly liked the first 3 Ozzy solo and the first 2 Dio solo (plus Strange Highways and parts of Angry Machines). I like Rainbow and Elf, but not massively - it's always been about Sabbath for me, with both of 'em. Same with Ian Gillan too actually, I way prefer Born Again over his other work.

I think Billy Underdog called it best when he quoted the original poster commenting that he only likes certain eras of other bands. As soon as you can understand that about one band, surely it's easy to understand how people may apply it to Sabbath. I may not be 'Ozzy only', but I can understand perfectly well how someone else might be.