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  1. #1
    TYR66's Avatar
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    Default Tony forgotten by the Sab' ?

    here's a link about an interview of Martin who never talk to BS members for a long time !! not a surprise but ...
    http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/...sitemID=170611

  2. #2
    Pink Led Rush's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link!
    Originally Posted by Monster Boy

    Depends on who is doing the rating. If they agree with me, they've rated it just right.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYR66 View Post
    here's a link about an interview of Martin who never talk to BS members for a long time !! not a surprise but ...
    http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/...sitemID=170611
    He was an employee, or the relationship Iommi & Butler had with him was only professional. I'm not a friend of everyone I have ever worked with, are you?
    That doesn't mean they are enemies either, just not such a strong friendship.

    He has had more contact with Geoff Nichols because he is on his band, doesn't it make sense?
    You and I, Victims of this World, as the Masters of Power try to poison our World.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYR66 View Post
    here's a link about an interview of Martin who never talk to BS members for a long time !! not a surprise but ...
    http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/...sitemID=170611
    It is interesting that Tony Martin admits having problems with his voice in the past.

    "For their voice, you mean? Well, I made a terrible mistake when i was younger and just sang without thinking about it... I damaged my voice so many times, but when you are young, it heals very quickly... but after a few years it stops repairing so quick and then you have a problem."

    I think his case is a bit similar to Ian Gillan. Many Gillan fans regret that he ever joined Black Sabbath.

    Singing Heavy Metal is not an easy job.
    You and I, Victims of this World, as the Masters of Power try to poison our World.
    Greed, Money's taken over their Souls, they're just Mechanical Brains.
    Politicians don't know, they just don't!
    Know... Know... Know...

  5. #5
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    I know many people hate the Born Again album. The idea is not to put a band name on any record. Born again, by itself, is one of my favorite albums. It's like Deep Purple's Slaves And Masters, Purple fans hate it. Muscially it is a fine record. Band wise, it is a great post-Dio Rainbow album.
    Robert McAfee

  6. #6
    Pink Led Rush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmdouglas27 View Post
    I know many people hate the Born Again album. The idea is not to put a band name on any record. Born again, by itself, is one of my favorite albums. It's like Deep Purple's Slaves And Masters, Purple fans hate it. Muscially it is a fine record. Band wise, it is a great post-Dio Rainbow album.
    Yes, featuring Ian Paice and Jon Lord LOL
    Originally Posted by Monster Boy

    Depends on who is doing the rating. If they agree with me, they've rated it just right.

  7. #7
    rmdouglas27's Avatar
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    Yes, Slaves and Masters is 4/5 Deep Purple and 3/5 Rainbow, but I don't review it as either. SaM is a really good rock album. The same goes for all the Tony Martin era Sabbath. You don't compare Headless Cross to Heaven And Hell or Paranoid. All the Tony Martin albums are very good. Any album is just a bunch of musicians getting together and creating music that, hopefully, people will enjoy. And to be honest the two tracks that were recorded of the Black Sabbath Reunion album, I think, are really bad.
    Robert McAfee

  8. #8
    scorpio 2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmdouglas27 View Post
    I know many people hate the Born Again album. The idea is not to put a band name on any record. Born again, by itself, is one of my favorite albums. It's like Deep Purple's Slaves And Masters, Purple fans hate it. Muscially it is a fine record. Band wise, it is a great post-Dio Rainbow album.
    Born Again was an embarrassment but thats my opinion.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio 2000 View Post
    Born Again was an embarrassment but thats my opinion.
    I agree partially, the Original Record sounds horrible. Is like listening to it while diving on a swimming pool.

    The music was good, but the mix was horrible. And Black Sabbath should have fixed this before shipping it everywhere.

    If needed, they should have gone back to the studio and re-record it from the scratch, selling it like that was a commercial suicide.

    The sound has been cleaned up over the years, so the deluxe edition sounds much better, but the unmixed demos are still better than the album.

    That mix, was a huge embarrassment, not the album. In my opinion.
    You and I, Victims of this World, as the Masters of Power try to poison our World.
    Greed, Money's taken over their Souls, they're just Mechanical Brains.
    Politicians don't know, they just don't!
    Know... Know... Know...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    I agree partially, the Original Record sounds horrible. Is like listening to it while diving on a swimming pool.

    The music was good, but the mix was horrible. And Black Sabbath should have fixed this before shipping it everywhere.

    If needed, they should have gone back to the studio and re-record it from the scratch, selling it like that was a commercial suicide.

    The sound has been cleaned up over the years, so the deluxe edition sounds much better, but the unmixed demos are still better than the album.

    That mix, was a huge embarrassment, not the album. In my opinion.
    100% correct in my humble opinion. I wonder if someone is still looking for the original tapes so we can get an official release better than the unmixed demos!

  11. #11
    Banned YADF's Avatar
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    Makes sense to me. To me Tony Martin is a superb Hard Rock singer but his voice just isn't metal to me. He's more Paul Rodgers than RJD. His Sabbath albums just sound too commercial because of his voice. I'm not with the Ozzy-only crowd. In fact I prefer the Dio albums by a country mile. RJD just had the perfect voice. Tony Martin blows Ozzy away vocally too but although Ozzy has a weak voice he, like Bob Dylan, knows how to use it for great effect. I've tried to like the Tony Martin albums but just don't.

  12. #12
    Wicked Cricket's Avatar
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    Tony M. was a hired hand to keep the BS name afloat (for better or worse...). Hey, I don't expect a Chevy engine or interior in a Mercedes when I buy one, but that's what Iommi was selling... a sub par vanilla baige colored version of once feared monster of a band... I really think Iommi lacked confidence that a band of his not called BS would be a failure... even though the TM era Sabbath basically shrunk into a Euro/Far East act... hey, not trying to cute or funny, but if you aint happening in the US of A... you just plain AIN'T HAPPENING!

    as for Slaves & Masters, it sounds like a Rainbow album (Joe Lynn Turner singing why wouldn't it..?)! A bland offering in one of many durring the Rainbow "We're trying to be Foreigner" days... Rainbow died when Dio left, so did the Medival sound and glory of a once unique great band... Blackmore should have changed the name of that band too....

  13. #13
    Axe fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    I really think Iommi lacked confidence that a band of his not called BS would be a failure...
    Had Tony gone out on his own or called it something else, I think those albums could have easily stood on their own without the Black Sabbath banner attached and maybe in a lot of ways, was a hindrance to the world class albums Tony kept churning out, year after year. I remember an Ozzy quote from years ago in which he said: "Well if you're (Tony) leaving the band, I ain't leaving, I'm gonna carry on. and when he (Tony) heard that, he came back in because he couldn't stand the thought of us carrying on without him in case he wasn't a success". My first reaction to hearing that was: Who's Ozzy trying to kid? He can't take care of himself, let alone Black Sabbath. Who knows? Maybe Ozzy was right in that, Tony lacked the confidence to go solo or start anew.
    Last edited by Axe fiend; 01-04-2013 at 04:04 PM.
    You're a dragon ain't ya? You think we keep you on staff just to toast marshmellows?

  14. #14
    Banned YADF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe fiend View Post
    Had Tony gone out on his own or called it something else, I think those albums could have easily stood on their own without the Black Sabbath banner attached and maybe in a lot of ways, was a hindrance to the world class albums Tony kept churning out, year after year.
    I think you're absolutely right. Poor Tony. The guy can sing his arse off. I wouldn't want to follow Ozzy/Dio/Gillan. I mean if Dio took crap despite already making a name with Rainbow so I can only imagine what Tony had to deal with

  15. #15
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    The Tony Martin question, is a difficult one, I never got into his music with Sabbath, it was generic his voice didn't really move me like Ozzy, Dio, and Gillan, but in recent times I have given the Martin Sabbath records a spin and there is a lot of good stuff there, maybe there wasn't that magic there between them like there was with the original Sab four, and Dio, Iommi, Butler, Appice.

    Tony Martin has to be given credit for hanging in there and performing. The problem with Martin is I don't think he melded with Iommi or Butler who was the main lyricist for the band for many years.

    Certain members have a magic when they get together, like Dio had when he reformed with Iommi, Butler and Appice, the proof is in Dehumanizer and The Devil You Know. Which I think will happen with this forthcoming Sabbath album, though Bill Ward wont be in it unfortunately.

    All in all Tony Martin deserves the respect he is due as a Sabbath singer, and I think a box set with the albums he recorded with Sabbath is due.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"

  16. #16
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    Tony Martin deserved much better than he got - the guy who was called in when Ozzy/Dio weren't available.

    He's almost unknown here in the U.S....of course, far too many people here think Sabbath were Ozzy's backing band.

    I'm glad I got to see him live on the Cross Purposes tour. He had a bad cold but the guy was a trouper, a real "the show must go on" type.

    The Martin-era albums could have easily stood up well with another band name (and probably got more notice in this country) but I am perfectly fine with them being Black Sabbath albums.

    I have got to be one of the few people who likes Born Again, to me it's so heavy.
    He is not here. He has risen!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    I agree partially, the Original Record sounds horrible. Is like listening to it while diving on a swimming pool.

    The music was good, but the mix was horrible. And Black Sabbath should have fixed this before shipping it everywhere.

    If needed, they should have gone back to the studio and re-record it from the scratch, selling it like that was a commercial suicide.

    The sound has been cleaned up over the years, so the deluxe edition sounds much better, but the unmixed demos are still better than the album.

    That mix, was a huge embarrassment, not the album. In my opinion.
    The album is okay, but Ian's writing is embarrassing. Hard to believe this the same guy who came out with songs like Woman From Tokyo. People give the Headless Cross album hell for all the "Satan" references, but a good majority of the Born Again album seems written like Gillan was phoning it in. It's even more over the top and ridiculous than Dio's "fantasy" lyrics. The mixing def should have been better but Born Again is as forgettable as the last few Ozzy era Sabbath album before he left the band.

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