Black Sabbath at Lollaplooza?

[The Mighty Sab]

http://prettymuchamazing.com/news/is...za-2012-lineup

I just found an interesting article about the (possible) leak of the Lollapalooza 2012 lineup, which apparently includes Black Sabbath. This would confirm that August date in the U.S. talked about earlier. But again, nothing confirmed.

[mikesline]

thats nice,but black sabbath -with or without bill ward?
without bill it is not black sabbath.

[TheElfoid]

Why is it people keep asking if Bill will be there? Until the band suggests the situation has improved, we are to assume that he is not in Black Sabbath.

There is this odd assumption that every day there are tons of negotiations going on, and it is the band's primary focus. I'm sure the band and their team have a slew of other duties to attend to, eating up their time.

Black Sabbath will have to go on without Bill Ward, just like in 1980-1983, 1983-1985, 1985-1994, 1994-1997 and 2006-2010. Oh well.

[Drago]

I hope this isn't true. The lineup is just so wrong for Sabbath. Would much rather have them hold a single day Ozzfest like they did a couple of years ago and have more bands that play hard rock/metal. The only other band I like on that whole list are the Chili Peppers. I was planning on going to the one show this year but not if that is the lineup.

[H&H]

The line-up of the festival is supposed to be announced on Wednesday. I have already booked a hotel in the area, just in case. Not real thrilled to have to purchase 3 days worth of tickets, but if it is the only way to see Black Sabbath, then so be it, I will be there.

[mikesline]

[QUOTE=TheElfoid;285303]Why is it people keep asking if Bill will be there? Until the band suggests the situation has improved, we are to assume that he is not in Black Sabbath.

There is this odd assumption that every day there are tons of negotiations going on, and it is the band's primary focus. I'm sure the band and their team have a slew of other duties to attend to, eating up their time.

sounds as if you are satisfied with any drummer,good for you but i've been a fan and went to tours before 1980,and that was BLACK SABBATH personally to me
it would be a nightmare to have a new album without bill ward---touring-i could live with that. but best wishes and speedy recovery for tony iommi.

[TheElfoid]

[QUOTE=mikesline;285372]

Why is it people keep asking if Bill will be there? Until the band suggests the situation has improved, we are to assume that he is not in Black Sabbath.

There is this odd assumption that every day there are tons of negotiations going on, and it is the band's primary focus. I'm sure the band and their team have a slew of other duties to attend to, eating up their time.

sounds as if you are satisfied with any drummer,good for you but i've been a fan and went to tours before 1980,and that was BLACK SABBATH personally to me
it would be a nightmare to have a new album without bill ward---touring-i could live with that. but best wishes and speedy recovery for tony iommi.

Not the case. I agree it is a shame and that it will not be the same, and that at present we are in the dark as to whether the replacement will be an appropriate one, or simply a trendy "name" drummer to help shift tickets.

However I do find it strange that people keep asking for an "update" on the Bill Ward situation. If the band had said "we're having trouble with Bill" or "we might not tour with Bill", there would be a greater expectation for an update from me. As it stands, they have said all that can be said at the present time, there is nothing to add. Furthermore, they are not going to confirm that Bill still isn't in the band - what kind of update is "Just so you know, we still don't plan on playing with Bill Ward". Who the replacement is is another matter, but again people are asking for an update when there is nothing to be said. They'll hold off announcing it until a) they have one to announce and b) there is no time remaining to resolve matters with Bill Ward. And yet people seem to think they deserve an answer already, even if it is just "we are still looking for a drummer".

I think people just want news for the sake of news.

[Paulie 88]

I do find it strange that people keep asking for an "update" on the Bill Ward situation.
I think people just want news for the sake of news.

Not me - What I want is some truth for everyone, and some justice for Bill and every Black Sabbath fan. However, I realize that I'm not entitled to either. We get what we get, good bad or indifferent.

Seems the rules have significantly changed, is it any wonder?

"... Till the day I die I will not change my mind on this issue. The Black Sabbath trademark should be equally owned by Geezer, Bill, Tony and I as the true Black Sabbath lineup is Tony, Geezer, Bill and I. We’ve all been mates since school. I’ve always said there is an invisible thread that holds us together. Tony, lets get this ridiculous issue sorted and move on with our lives." - Quote excerpt from Ozzy Osbourne, May 29, 2009 as posted on Ozzy's official MySpace page and elsewhere.

Funny, how that all seemed so rock-solid when there was money for Ozzy at stake. In fact, here's more from Ozzy's official press statement, same date: "I don’t have the right to speak for Geezer and Bill, but I feel that morally and ethically the trademark should be owned by the four of us equally. I hope that by me taking this first step that it will ultimately end up that way."

But when Bill is stating that he's been handed something "unsignable," do you think the offer he's getting is more or less than 25%? The answer could ONLY be, less. I don't doubt for a second that he wants to gig and record with Sabbath more than anything else in the world, and while I hope it all comes together one way or another, knowing what we know about $hozzy, I really have little to no hope that it will happen.

I am thoroughly disgusted with the whole thing. Ozzy and Co, "lets get this ridiculous issue sorted and move on with our lives!"

God bless Bill Ward and God bless Black Sabbath,
PAULIE

[lord71]

Bill will be there

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Bill will be there

According to Chicago Tribune and Promoter:

"...Nostalgia remains a big theme on the rock side of the Lolla spectrum. Besides the Sabbath set, which (according to C3) includes original members Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi, Geezer Butler and Bill Ward, ..."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...2671599.column

[Charger]

This is pretty out of place festival for Sabbath to play...

Just look at the other bands


Red Hot Chilipeppers? Seriously?? Oh boy....

Isn't there a single metal festival in the US nowadays?

[TheEtherCult]

(Imagining Jane's Addiction playing OzzFest) ... ... all 30 seconds of it...

Life goes 360 ehe?...

Ok, now lets see how much for a couple of plane tickets....

Can see it now..."PLAY CRAZY TRAIN ...PLAY CRAZY TRAIN "...rigth group ... wrong crowd ...

Peace and anger management,
M

[Turtle276]

Can see it now..."PLAY CRAZY TRAIN ...PLAY CRAZY TRAIN "...rigth group ... wrong crowd ...


M

Unfortunately, this is not just a joke. If you go onto the Lollapalooza site and hover over Black Sabbath, it plays Crazy Train! That is beyond pathetic.

http://lineup.lollapalooza.com/

Also, the history of the band on that site makes absolutely no mention of a post-Ozzy Sabbath. Let the Stalinesque scrubbing of history begin!!

[Monster Boy]

Unfortunately, this is not just a joke. If you go onto the Lollapalooza site and hover over Black Sabbath, it plays Crazy Train! That is beyond pathetic.

http://lineup.lollapalooza.com/

Also, the history of the band on that site makes absolutely no mention of a post-Ozzy Sabbath. Let the Stalinesque scrubbing of history begin!!

Damn, that is a pretty bad mistake. Also, when you go to the Sabbath page on the site, it includes the song "Heaven and Hell" in the playlist on the right. Stalin missed one there.

[kentuckyfan]

So do they post which day they will play? I will go to see them then leave.

[Joe Siegler]

Unfortunately, this is not just a joke. If you go onto the Lollapalooza site and hover over Black Sabbath, it plays Crazy Train! That is beyond pathetic.

http://lineup.lollapalooza.com/

Also, the history of the band on that site makes absolutely no mention of a post-Ozzy Sabbath. Let the Stalinesque scrubbing of history begin!!

The usage of Crazy Train is just fucking stupid. I doubt anyone with Sabbath had anything to do with that. Some rube who doesn't know anything about metal working with the festival likely did that. I alerted Iommi's manager to that uh, "oversight" a minute ago.

As for the post Ozzy Sabbath. Honestly - did you really think it would be there? Those parts of the band had their place and their time. Right now isn't it. As much as I love the other eras (and Tony martin in particular), I'm no fool. It's not time to push those at the moment.

So do they post which day they will play? I will go to see them then leave.

I strongly doubt the lineups and times have been worked out this far in advance.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

Bill will be there

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------



According to Chicago Tribune and Promoter:

"...Nostalgia remains a big theme on the rock side of the Lolla spectrum. Besides the Sabbath set, which (according to C3) includes original members Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi, Geezer Butler and Bill Ward, ..."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...2671599.column

Uh, no. I checked into it, and my investigation tells me nothing has changed with the Bill Ward situation as of yet. It may yet change, but as of April 11th, 2012 - No. he's not involved from what I can gather.

[CrystalWorld]

I can't believe the crazy train by black sabbath was true. You'd think whoever was making that site could at least make a google search. Of course I've met many people that think it's a sabbath song so I'm sure there is plenty of sites to google to confirm their mistake.

Anyway I was excited to see they are playing, but other than sabbath nothing else really appeals to me and those are some pricy tickets.

[8bit Fighter]

I pretty much kept myself quiet until now about this subject. I'm still flabbergasted as how this event exists. The reason why Ozzfest was even INVENTED is because of this festival didn't allow Ozzy's solo band tour with them in 1996. I'm glad I saw them back in 2005 with Iron Maiden, I rather buy the new album twice instead of going to this tour, which is actually as close to me as it gonna get distance wise. Last time that happened to me it was Dio era near Rosemont Horizon...ahem..sorry, I mean All State Arena.

Post Update: After posting this, I actually thought about it, and I would actually have to buy the new album five times in order to equal the amount of the price of the ticket. But the opinion/idea remains the same...

[TheEtherCult]

Unfortunately, this is not just a joke. If you go onto the Lollapalooza site and hover over Black Sabbath, it plays Crazy Train! That is beyond pathetic.

... I had no idea of this ... I was making my little... "ppl @ lolapalooza have no idea who Sabbath is" joke ...

Either the person responsible for the site is very ...um... let's be polite and say "clueless" ... or very good at busting balls...

Cheers,

M

[Joe Siegler]

Might as well trot out the Osbourne family.

Don't give them any ideas.

[H&H]

I checked the Lalapolooza site this morning around 8 am EDT, and they had the bands posted. I bought my tickets. I am going. There is no way I am missing this.

As for the rest of the bands, nothing else is even remotely interesting outside of the RHCP. Not a big fan, but I will watch their set. I am not surprised at all buy the line-up. Lalapalooza has never been a metal festival. They were always billed as an "Alternative" festival, and the bands that they have for 2012 are alternative, Except for Black Sabbath. I do agree, that it is strange to have them due to the past history Ozzy has with this festival, but then again, this is the sweet revenge of Sharon. She went out and created her own festival. They made some good dollars off that, and now, when touring festivals really are not the in thing, and Lala is a one venue show, they come in to be a headliner, and make a bundle of cash from it, as they know they will be a big draw.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

Isn't there a single metal festival in the US nowadays?

Yes, there are:

Gigantour
Mayhem

[TheElfoid]

One must remember that Sabbath have the kind of mainstream appeal nowadays that they didn't have before. Black Sabbath are part of the classic rock culture at this point. A metal festival would give them a far smaller audience. Look at the lineup for that festival Metallica is hosting (Orion I think?). They're in the same situation.

[Charger]

Yes, there are:

Gigantour
Mayhem

Yes, but they are touring festivals...Sabbath couldn't be a part of them since they only play one show.

[Monster Boy]

Seems the rules have significantly changed, is it any wonder?

"... Till the day I die I will not change my mind on this issue. The Black Sabbath trademark should be equally owned by Geezer, Bill, Tony and I as the true Black Sabbath lineup is Tony, Geezer, Bill and I. We’ve all been mates since school. I’ve always said there is an invisible thread that holds us together. Tony, lets get this ridiculous issue sorted and move on with our lives." - Quote excerpt from Ozzy Osbourne, May 29, 2009 as posted on Ozzy's official MySpace page and elsewhere.

Funny, how that all seemed so rock-solid when there was money for Ozzy at stake. In fact, here's more from Ozzy's official press statement, same date: "I don’t have the right to speak for Geezer and Bill, but I feel that morally and ethically the trademark should be owned by the four of us equally. I hope that by me taking this first step that it will ultimately end up that way."

But when Bill is stating that he's been handed something "unsignable," do you think the offer he's getting is more or less than 25%? The answer could ONLY be, less. I don't doubt for a second that he wants to gig and record with Sabbath more than anything else in the world, and while I hope it all comes together one way or another, knowing what we know about $hozzy, I really have little to no hope that it will happen.

I am thoroughly disgusted with the whole thing. Ozzy and Co, "lets get this ridiculous issue sorted and move on with our lives!"

God bless Bill Ward and God bless Black Sabbath,
PAULIE

You are right in pointing out Ozzy's inconsistency, but it seems to me there is a double standard here. What I mean by that: Tony Iommi owned 100% of the trademark. Ozzy wanted a share of that. Iommi did not simply give it to him, in fact, Ozzy had to take him to court to get a piece. The equal share idea is pure rhetoric, Ozzy was looking out for himself, ....and so was Tony. That's what people do! Bill and Geezer can do the same thing if they wish (although they don't really have as strong of a case as Oz, well, maybe Geezer has a stronger case than Bill because his wife had a lot to do with managing the reunion initially.) In any case, all of that is about the trademark, which I doubt the "unsignable contract" has anything to do with, it's probably about song writing royalties or things more directly related to the upcoming album and tour. But if you use the Iommi vs Osbourne case as evidence that Ozzy and Sharon are the greedy ones most likely at the heart of the "unsignable contract", you miss the fact that Iommi wanted the trademark all to himself and had to be sued before he would share any of it. I hear an argument coming "But Tony deserves it and Ozzy doesn't!" That's all well and good, matter of opinion, but the law didn't see it that way apparently. Anwyays, to reiterate the main point: people look out for themselves, all people, not just Ozzy.

[kamikazetom]

It will be interesting to see how Sabbath goes over with the Lollapalooza crowd - Other than the timing (May 25 - 27) I always thought the perfect festival in the US for Sabbath would have been Rocklahoma - at least it's more hard rock with Chickenfoot, Creed, Slash, Megadeth, Rob Zombie, Volbeta, etc than the Lollapalooza lineup (Plus it's close to where I live so I would have gone but Chicago no can do)

[Chris Webster]

Glad to see At the Drive-In has gotten back togher! I've been a fan for years. Their music is really good. They split up and became Sparta (who's first cd Wiretap Scars is great, especially if you can find the alt unpolished download version, then they went down hill) and of course The Mars Volta who's music is insane. I like At the Drive-In better than the two split groups. Check out some of their stuff especially One Armed Scissors. I bet they pay their drummer.

[kentuckyfan]

My only problem is will they sell single day tickets? I hope so. A few of these bands I know and would want to see but if there are just one or two a day then it is a waste for me. I just want to see Sabbath with who ever is playing. Now Ozzy and friends is less of a show I would want to see but as to a bigger point made is where are all the metal shows in America. Well we are all American Idoled out and if you want to see great metal festivals you need to visit Europe. I am hoping to see Wacken open air in a year or two.

[Borg]

That is not the right Festival for Black Sabbath, but... Tony is sick, I won't complaint.

[Axeman77]

sabbath fans shouldn't go to the gigs if bill isn't playing. simple as that.

[Monster Boy]

That's true, Monster. One might say though that Oz looks out for himself a little too much. That's more of a comment on the past rather than this particular case.

One cay say many things, it's a free internet. One could also say that Tony looked out for himself a little too much (treating Tony Martin like a fat girl he can call up any time he wants, retaining the name Black Sabbath when he was the only original member, ditching the TYR line-up so he could try to cash in on some old glory, registering the Black Sabbath trademark under his own name in 2000...) and one can provide examples even. One could provide examples about Ozzy as well but that's been beaten to death, I'll let somebody else do that.

Anyways, back on topic, I think it's great that Sabbath is going to play a show in the US at all what with Tony's situation, stop whining y'all.

[Monster Boy]

You sure like to make sure you've made your point...

I meant more like Ozzy not giving credits and royalties to Daisley. That's something else.

I like to flesh out my arguments with actual details, whoops. As far as Daisley not getting credit for his work on Diary of a Madman, I hear ya. He didn't get credited for his contributions on Eternal Idol either (all songs credited solely to Iommi), also Dave Spitz is listed on the record as the bass player although he actually didn't play on it. Do people rave up and down about that one? See what I'm on about?

[Charger]

He didn't get credited for his contributions on Eternal Idol either (all songs credited solely to Iommi)

That's false...or actually semi false I should say. The original print doesn't have any writing credits at all, but the new Deluxe Edition has the all songs written by Tony Iommi which is bit strange to say the least.

[Monster Boy]

That's false...or actually semi false I should say. The original print doesn't have any writing credits at all, but the new Deluxe Edition has the all songs written by Tony Iommi which is bit strange to say the least.

Hmmm. Here's an image that shows a vinyl copy that says: music and lyrics: Tony Iommi. I don't know if this is the original print but it appears to be to my untrained eyes. http://www.adverts.ie/vinyl/vinyl-re...al-idol/190697



Anyways, that kind of thing happens a lot in the rock music world. If Eternal Idol had turned out to be a huge success I wonder if Bob Daisley would have sued over that one too?

And anyways #2: sorry for getting this thread so off track. How bout them Lollipoploozoos then?

[Charger]

Interesting. My original CD print (WB) doesn't have that...

[Sabhuman1978]

This is pretty out of place festival for Sabbath to play...

Just look at the other bands


Red Hot Chilipeppers? Seriously?? Oh boy....

Isn't there a single metal festival in the US nowadays?

Wow, so many odd bands that i've never heard... Black Keys?, Bassnectar?

[Monster Boy]

Wow, so many odd bands that i've never heard... Black Keys?, Bassnectar?

I don't know anything about Bassnectar, but I have some friends who swear by the Black Keys. They're a very back to basics duo, sort of along the lines of the White Stripes. Riff based, raw sounding, bluesy stuff. I haven't listened to them much myself because I think that style has sort of been over hyped and over done, but I may like them if I gave them a chance. Think about it: raw, riff based, bluesy, down to Earth...sound familiar?

[Borg]

I don't know anything about Bassnectar, but I have some friends who swear by the Black Keys. They're a very back to basics duo, sort of along the lines of the White Stripes. Riff based, raw sounding, bluesy stuff. I haven't listened to them much myself because I think that style has sort of been over hyped and over done, but I may like them if I gave them a chance. Think about it: raw, riff based, bluesy, down to Earth...sound familiar?

I don't need to lie to myself about that Festival, the only reason I would be there is Black Sabbath, and Black Sabbath shouldn't be playing there, but since Tony is sick, we should try to be supportive of the Band even they perform on a un-Metal Festival.

[Monster Boy]

I don't need to lie to myself about that Festival, the only reason I would be there is Black Sabbath, and Black Sabbath shouldn't be playing there, but since Tony is sick, we should try to be supportive of the Band even they perform on a un-Metal Festival.

No need to lie here either, metal is an over hyped, over done style in my eyes. Widen your horizons people! Well, I'm sure many of you have very wide metal horizons, it's a taste thing. Personally, I think festivals cost way too much though, hell, so do concerts really, but festivals - yikes! Plus I'm not exactly a young pup anymore and the festival scene is really for twenty somethings and teenagers, with the occasional old hippie.....So if I were in the states I would sadly have to decline. There's an Ozzy and Friends show coming to Mannheim and I may even not go to that, if it was Sabbath I'd have to plop down the 200 euro or whatever though. But anyways, yeah, I am supportive of the band, you go guys! rah rah rah! I just don't want to support them THAT much, like with a month's pay.

EDIT: I just looked and saw that it is actually only 230 bucks for a ticket to Lollapalooza. Not as ridiculous as I had thought. Still pretty damn expensive though I think. Having to plop down more than 30 bucks for a concert seems wrong to me, but I'm kind of a cheap ass

[kamikazetom]

Why does Sabbath appear to be 3rd or so on the bill? Incredible if that's the case ...

They are not playing 3rd on the bill - lollapalooza is a 3 day festival (8/3 - 8/5) & they are headlining one of the days - just hasn't been announced which day they will be playing & what the other bands will be - also $230 for a 3 day festival is pretty reasonable - I am guessing that single day tickets will go onsale soon.

[TheElfoid]

I'd not call this a great line-up, but it isn't awful either.

Bands I would see:
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
The Black Keys
Black Sabbath
Jack White
Florence & Thet Machine
At the Drive In
Sigur Ros
Franz Ferdinand
The Gaslight Anthem

I've not heard of 90% of the others. Some of them are likely to be good too.

[Wicked Cricket]

As a concert going fan since the 70's & never a real fan of the metal explosion of the 80's, I'd rather sit thru a day of music by an eclectic group of bands than have to sit thru 5-6 heavy metal bands all sounding the same, playing headache muzac, while I wait for the real deal...I liked that fact that in the 70's, every major band had their own signature sound, I could care less about the "genre" of heavy metal, not interested, not relavent to me or my world.