Vinny unlikely to re-join Sabbath (Metal Hammer)

[KiloDeltaCharlie]

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/black-sabbath-vinny-appice-joining-sabbath-ngoing-to-happen/


After Bill Ward went public about his ongoing issues with the reunited Black Sabbath, it has long been rumoured that a potential replacement for Bill could be former Sabbath and Heaven And Hell drummer Vinny Appice should the band remain unable to reconcile.

Well, that looks set to be shitcanned, according to the man himself.

“Everybody goes: Well, If you did get asked, would you do it?” Vinny tells Powerline in a brand new interview. “And how could you turn it down? It’s part of rock history. It’s probably the last album they’ll ever make, so who wouldn’t want to do it? But I wouldn’t want to stop my [new] band [Kill Devil Hill] in its tracks. What am I gonna do, stop this and do that? I would say, if it was to happen, it would have to be both things, you know. With my band, maybe we can be on some of the dates and whatever… But it’s not gonna happen anyway, because they’re moving on. I don’t know what’s going on, but obviously they’re moving on, so … And I got this and I’m stoked, you know. This is my dream right here.”

[KazolOrajia]

Good. Appice's no different than a drum machine. Sabbath needs a drummer with style, especially for an album like this.

[Sabbathman]

"But it’s not gonna happen anyway, because they’re moving on. I don’t know what’s going on, but obviously they’re moving on, so …"

Moving on? Like moving on with some other drummer? I wonder did they ever even consider Vinny as the second (and last) choice after Bill...?

Is there any information about who's who with Ozzy and Geezer?

[Mysteric]

If they call he'll come. He isn't going to be making real money with his side projects.

[LouiST]

Maybe... Sabbath will make an album without drums?

[The Wretch]

I like Appice, but he's not right for the Ozzy line up. There is only one man for that job.

[The Wretch]

The very man!

[Monster Boy]

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/black-sabbath-vinny-appice-joining-sabbath-ngoing-to-happen/


… But it’s not gonna happen anyway, because they’re moving on. I don’t know what’s going on, but obviously they’re moving on, so … And I got this and I’m stoked, you know. This is my dream right here.”

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but the "they're moving on" seems to imply that Appice inquired about the position and they turned him down, or haven't returned his phone calls, or he expected them to get in touch with him when the position opened up and they didn't.

Anyways, one of the above posters said that Vinnie is the same as having a drum machine and I have to disagree: both are dull as hell, but a drum machine would keep much better time

[The Wretch]

Y'all are being a bit harsh on ol Vin there

He's no Bill Ward (or Cozy Powell for that matter) but he's solid enough. He just doesn't have what is required for the early sabs material. Frankly, the idea of anyone other than Bill is unthinkable.

[Old_Papa_Rich]

Yes, there's only one man for the job. The guy who could play drums AND sing better.











Mr. Bill Ward!






I never knew this had a video.

Now I am sad...

[KazolOrajia]

I am a bit harsh on Appice, yeah, but he seems like a nice guy, and can play the old stuff fine. The problem is that he has no style of his own. He either copies Bill on older tracks, or just plays the most basic of beats. I think it's because he doesn't write any of his own drum parts, like Bill did. Look at the album credits-every Sabbath album he was on, the writing is credited to Iommi, Geezer and Dio on all songs. I'm not sure who wrote them-probably Dio. Maybe he can play, but can't come up with anything? Who knows.

Still hoping for Bill, but if it comes down to it, Tommy Clufetos would be my choice of replacement.

[mds]

If Vinny is/was good enough for Tony then who are we to disagree? Maybe Tony preferred a simpler drum style or grew accustomed to it. Either way Vinny was and is a team player and all the sniping about his playing style is unwarranted.

[Monster Boy]

all the sniping about his playing style is unwarranted.

Vinny's a big boy, I'm sure he can handle it. Besides, people are allowed to think he sucks and voice their opinions on that, last I checked.

[mds]

Vinny's a big boy, I'm sure he can handle it. Besides, people are allowed to think he sucks and voice their opinions on that, last I checked.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion but at some point the redundancy renders them meaningless. Vinny has manned the stool in Sabbath more than any other drummer outside of Bill and is the closest thing to a fifth member that they have. He and Geezer are a formidible rhythm section and were in a solid groove during the final H&H tour. My preference would be for Bill to handle the drumming for the new album but if he can't or won't do it then Vinny is the most deserving of the opportunity. As for people's qualms about his playing style for all we know that is how Vinny was asked to perform. Maybe Tony wanted to move away from Bill's more complicated patterns and fills to a more straightforward style. Who knows. But, in the end, Tony and Geezer always seem to return to Vinny and their opinions carry a bit more weight than the insighful "he sucks" and " a drum machine would be better" revelations that are frequently posted.

[DarthTyr]

Yeah Vinny's been getting a lot of flak lately. I agree his playing on TDYK is not his most inspired, but I do think this whole issue has been blown out of proportion. His playing on Mob Rules, Dehumanizer (just listen to the intro of Computer God) and the early Dio albums is great, heavy yet intricate.
Yes, a completely different kind of player than Bill (there is no one who plays like Bill really), and not the drummer I want to hear play the Ozzy-era stuff, but a very capable musician nonetheless.
And as for not writing his own drum parts, that's nonsense, the reason the writing credits weren't split four ways when he was in the band was simply because he was not an original member (yeah, Dio wasn't an original member but as singer he obviously pulled a lot more weight, as well as writing all the lyrics and melodies).
Just check out this video for some great heavy grooving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbMIX2NBpi0.

[Monster Boy]

the redundancy renders them meaningless.

If I say "I am a human" five times in a row, does that mean I am not a human? Anyways, I think I know what you mean, that people just say things without any thought behind it sometimes. I find it kind of offensive when people presume they know why people think what they do is all. Maybe people don't like the way Vinny plays, plain and simple, and they have their reasons. You have your reasons for thinking he deserves the job, or works well with Geezer, and that Tony and Geezer's opinion is better than other people's, so on and so forth. Fine, but realize all of those things you listed are still merely opinions, no matter how insightful you think your opinions are. If you can't see that it's all subjective then my having a conversation about it is kind of pointless I guess.

[mds]

If I say "I am a human" five times in a row, does that mean I am not a human? Anyways, I think I know what you mean, that people just say things without any thought behind it sometimes. I find it kind of offensive when people presume they know why people think what they do is all. Maybe people don't like the way Vinny plays, plain and simple, and they have their reasons. You have your reasons for thinking he deserves the job, or works well with Geezer, and that Tony and Geezer's opinion is better than other people's, so on and so forth. Fine, but realize all of those things you listed are still merely opinions, no matter how insightful you think your opinions are. If you can't see that it's all subjective then my having a conversation about it is kind of pointless I guess.

Of course its subjective but since not of us are privy to their reasons I defer to the opinion that matters most: that of Tony and Geezer. That doesn't minimize your position or that of anyone else. But it certainly has more validity and that is my point. If you can't see that then you are correct in stating that a conversation is pointless.

[Monster Boy]

Of course its subjective but since not of us are privy to their reasons I defer to the opinion that matters most: that of Tony and Geezer. That doesn't minimize your position or that of anyone else. But it certainly has more validity and that is my point. If you can't see that then you are correct in stating that a conversation is pointless.

I'm glad we agree about subjectivity then, so the conversation can continue!

You say that Tony and Geezer's opinions have more validity. More validity for what exactly? Their opinion is definitely more important concerning who drums for Sabbath, no argument there. Their opinions have completely no validity when it comes to whether or not I like the results though, my opinion is king there, as is Billy Bob's concerning his opinion. Do you seriously like Vinny's drumming because you think that Tony likes it? If so, that's your choice, seems like kind of an odd reason to like something but who am I to say? I base my opinion (or try to) on whether or not I like the way he drums.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you when you say that you defer to their opinion. Maybe you mean that although Tony and Geezer's opinions do not and should not affect anybody else's, we shouldn't talk about our opinions because they don't matter (especially if we don't like Vinny). Is that more like it? Or, maybe you mean that, since Tony and Geezer write great music, their opinions are better than ours. That statement is yet another opinion, sorry, not an undeniable fact of some sort.

Anyways, sorry if this comes out as rude, I just like to challenge assumptions, nothing personal meant, hopefully you can see that it is just a logic dilemma and not a personal attack. People "misinterpret" me that way sometimes.

[-E5150 StarWanderer-]

Hmmm...an interesting debate about Vinny's style and it fitting Sabbath, I think I'll pop in and give my view on this topic

I would assume that most of his critics deem him as a dull player because he isn't really a great solo player. His fills aren't that bombastic or creative: he usually just pulls of a tight run through snare and toms, and doesn't really get that creative with them. But what most don't seem to value is the little things he always brings to his performances. He reacts well inside a song with some nice kick/snare combos and tasteful embellishments with symbals. The general consensus seems to be that he just plods through songs, but to me it's those little things that make his drumming enjoyable to me. Yes, some of his drumming on TDYK was really plodding, but in songs like Double The Pain, Bible Black and especially Fear he shows those little manouvers that he has always utilized. He is now Ward or Powell, but more than a worthy drummer. Vinny is one of those true power house drummer in the vein of Bonham and his older brother to name a few.

But I agree that Appice's style wouldn't fit most of the material from the original line-up. If Ward sadly won't join this reunion, I have a suggestion: Brian Downey of Thin Lizzy fame.

[Monster Boy]

I would assume that most of his critics deem him as a dull player because he isn't really a great solo player. His fills aren't that bombastic or creative: he usually just pulls of a tight run through snare and toms, and doesn't really get that creative with them.

For me, that's just part of it. The lack of creativity is not merely limited to his fills as I hear it, it also shows up in the beats he plays. He never gets creative with his beats, like the basic patterns. When he does get creative with his fills, like the beginning of Computer God and at the end of the last song on the disc it tends to sound overly tricky to the point that it sounds unmusical. Hard to describe exactly what I mean there...another way of saying it is it sounds too calculated instead of spirited, canned instead of inspired, speculative instead of experiential, blah blah instead of bloopedeeyabadee-scrabbadeeshloop. As far as the drum beats, one need not be complex to be creative, the most creative solutions often have the sheen of pure simplicity. Anyways, I could go on for hours about what I don't like about his playing. I never really paid attention to the little tricks you mentioned E5150, maybe if I focused my attentions there I'd like it more, problem is I might be asleep before it happens

[mds]

I'm glad we agree about subjectivity then, so the conversation can continue!

You say that Tony and Geezer's opinions have more validity. More validity for what exactly? Their opinion is definitely more important concerning who drums for Sabbath, no argument there. Their opinions have completely no validity when it comes to whether or not I like the results though, my opinion is king there, as is Billy Bob's concerning his opinion. Do you seriously like Vinny's drumming because you think that Tony likes it? If so, that's your choice, seems like kind of an odd reason to like something but who am I to say? I base my opinion (or try to) on whether or not I like the way he drums.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you when you say that you defer to their opinion. Maybe you mean that although Tony and Geezer's opinions do not and should not affect anybody else's, we shouldn't talk about our opinions because they don't matter (especially if we don't like Vinny). Is that more like it? Or, maybe you mean that, since Tony and Geezer write great music, their opinions are better than ours. That statement is yet another opinion, sorry, not an undeniable fact of some sort.

Anyways, sorry if this comes out as rude, I just like to challenge assumptions, nothing personal meant, hopefully you can see that it is just a logic dilemma and not a personal attack. People "misinterpret" me that way sometimes.

I didn't find your comments rude; rather you are thoughtful and engaging which makes for interesting exchanges. That said we would appear to be at the classic agree to disagree stage!

[Billy Underdog]

Vinny is one of those true power house drummer in the vein of Bonham and his older brother to name a few.

Let's not get all blasphemic now. Vinny's nowhere near the groove of King Bonzo, not even remotely in the same vein. Even compaired to the pretty mediocre groove of Appice Sr, he's got a long way to go. Vinny's just sub-par and boring. IMO!!!

[mds]

But I agree that Appice's style wouldn't fit most of the material from the original line-up. If Ward sadly won't join this reunion, I have a suggestion: Brian Downey of Thin Lizzy fame.

If Tony is writing songs in the classic Sabbath style I would tend to agree with your statement. However it has been 34 years since he wrote with Bill in mind. Also, last time Bill was involved with recording Sabbath songs it is rumored he was replaced by a drum machine (no, not Vinny!) on Selling My Soul. My preference is that Sabbath work things out with Bill and they give us one final magical Black Sabbath album.
If it doesn't work out and Vinny doesn't fit the bill, so to speak, then I would like to see Jimmy Paxson jr. on the stool. He recorded drums for The Casualties Of Jazz on the Kind Of Black Sabbath tribute and would definitely deliver the Bill Ward jazz vibe. If you haven't heard it before it's worth a listen.

[Wicked Cricket]

Wards a jazz inspired drummer, most guys back then were influneced by Buddy Rich, you can hear it songs like Wicked World for example. Vinnys a more 80's metal player, Sabbath, Tull, Zep, Purple, all had jazz style drummers it's just a different approach. I think Vinny does a good job, some of stuff on TDYK stood out.

[mikesline]

Good. Appice's no different than a drum machine. Sabbath needs a drummer with style, especially for an album like this.

let's just hope bill is back where he should be by recording time.

[Sabbathman]

For whom it may concern, a few lines from Vinny about his drumming...

http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/...sitemID=173766

The Great Southern Brainfart: I want to talk about your playing on the KILL DEVIL HILL album. The playing on this album is like nothing I've ever heard you do before. You have such a signature sound to it but there's some groove and swing in there that I've never heard from Vinny Appice.

Vinny: There are two things that were involved in that. One thing was that the last HEAVEN & HELL album, "The Devil You Know", was written with a friggin' drum machine. It was all of us in a room with a drum machine. It was stupid. I wanted to go into a rehearsal place and jam and work the shit up loud. That's the way we did "Mob Rules" and "Dehumanizer", but instead, it wound up with us working in Ronnie's [James Dio] studio with a drum machine. When we recorded "The Devil You Know", the band wanted it really simple on the drums so I didn't play a lot on that album. When the album came out, I got all this feedback like, "Vinny didn't play shit on the drums," and "The drums are really boring," and shit like that [laughs]. I was like, "OK, but you guys don't know the whole story." That was in my head so I decided that I was going to play my ass off on [the KILL DEVIL HILL] record.

This is exactly what I've been saying. As a team player, Vinny has always DELIVERED WHAT'S BEEN ASKED FROM HIM. This time they asked just him to play some basic beats.

[Thelemech]

That also says a lot about the current Sabbath attitude to drumming and drummers.

How true...

[Billy Underdog]

That also says a lot about the current Sabbath attitude to drumming and drummers.

Neither Sabbath or Ozzy has cared much about drummers since 1981 (save for Ozzy having Mike Bordin for a couple of years, and Iommi turning to Bill to help out a few times when he was lacking other alternatives).
For christs sake, Ozzy even sacked Lee Kerslake, probably the worst musical career-move he's ever done, along with treating Bob Daisley like a bitch.

I guess we'll just have to face it; if they don't resolve whatever problems the band and Bill has, it's probably going to be pretty boring drums for the new album too...

[TYR66]

Neither Sabbath or Ozzy has cared much about drummers since 1981 (save for Ozzy having Mike Bordin for a couple of years, and Iommi turning to Bill to help out a few times when he was lacking other alternatives).
For christs sake, Ozzy even sacked Lee Kerslake, probably the worst musical career-move he's ever done, along with treating Bob Daisley like a bitch.

I guess we'll just have to face it; if they don't resolve whatever problems the band and Bill has, it's probably going to be pretty boring drums for the new album too...

on this subject, I 'm agree with you man ... but maybe Jeff Campitelli will be available for the studio sessions

[KazolOrajia]

This has got me thinking (and worrying) that maybe Sabbath will just use programmed drums on the album instead of getting an actual replacement for Bill. Even if Bill gets shafted, I'd much rather they use a real person than a computer.

[Deuce Frehley]

But I wouldn’t want to stop my [new] band [Kill Devil Hill] in its tracks. What am I gonna do, stop this and do that?

Because millions of fans are waiting to hear Kill Devil Hill.

[celt]

But I wouldn’t want to stop my [new] band [Kill Devil Hill] in its tracks. What am I gonna do, stop this and do that?

Because millions of fans are waiting to hear Kill Devil Hill.

I really like and respect Vinny Appice, and can certainly understand that he wants to move on from the whole Sabbath/Dio thing, but when Kill Devil Hill is playing in front of 50-100 people, the possibility of playing for Sabbath in front of 10,000-15,000 people will probably sound pretty good to him.

[KazolOrajia]

I think that a true musician will put his art before his money. He obviously cares about Kill Devil Hill (and he should- it is a great fucking band if you've heard them-they sound a lot like Sabbath, they absolutely crush), so I think it's the right thing to do.

[Billy Underdog]

Nice to see Vinny suporting Bill's side on this issue.

I wanted to go into a rehearsal plane and jam

A rehearsal-plane, now that would've been something


Didn't know Rex Brown is involved in KDH. Maybe it's worth checking out then...

[Sabbathman]

Vinny Appice's Rehearsal Plane

Great band name! LOL