"Etheral Wave"

[Josef_K]

As some of you might have noticed, I am a great admirer of atmosphere in music, atmosphere and feeling equals a musical experience for me, not very much else is of great importance. Needless to say that makes me love bands such as Pink Floyd but also Black Sabbath of course (atmosphere doesn't have to mean heavy keyboard sweeps and soaring vocals).

Anyway, I've recently heard about a genre I didn't know existed called "etheral wave", it's been around for quite a while but isn't really too widespread and doesn't have any bands really playing ONLY etheral wave but is often one of the genres used to describe various atmospheric bands of today. However, I've found that using the genre as a keyword, three out of three bands fitting into the genre turned out to be great bands that I can appreciate alot. Some of them blend in pop elements, some blend in darker elements but they are all very much focused on the atmosphere.

I mainly wanted to check how many people know about this genre and if you don't, but like atmospheric music, I strongly suggest you check out some of the following:

Chelsea Wolfe, extremely dark atmospheric music, her song "Mer" off her latest album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSkktZL7zk

The Eden House, also dark but maybe a bit more melodic and poppy at times, their song "All my Love" from their 2009 album "Smoke & Mirrors":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik9u8ZzP6Uw

Dark Orange, not as dark (despite the name) and a bit more pop-oriented, yet still atmospheric of course, their song "Dreamygreen" off their latest album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=038cW...eature=related

I have no idea if there are any big names in this genre, I'm quite sure I've missed them if there are any though :D Tell me what you think!

[Josef_K]

The first one has some nice enough music. Though I'm more than tired of the smoky eyed, breathy Kate Bush voice which is the old routine for 8 out of 10 female singers ... I'm not surprised or anything.

I don't understand why seemingly everyone in music has to be depressed now. Maybe I should throw on some Van Halen just now.

Never heard Kate Bush before, but I checked her out on Youtube. I'm sorry dude, I just don't see any resemblance of Chelsea Wolfe's voice there, none at all. Then again, I am a fan of Chelsea so it might be denial haha :D Speaking about the female singers in the other groups, I do think some of them sound a bit more standardized, but those bands music is about the atmosphere to the extent that they might actually be better off with singers who don't personalize the music too much if you get my point.

About music being so depressing, since when hasn't most music been depressing? :D I guess it's up to you to decide what's depressing. Personally I don't consider "happy" music about partying worth my time. Then again there's also political songs, but they tend to be kind of a downer as well (duh...). What exactly do you want to see more of? "Sabbra Cadabra" kind of happy or "Rock n Roll All Nite" kind of happy? ^^ To me, a song like "Us and Them" for example isn't depressing just because it deals with issues. I don't know your opinion on that, but I do know most people would say it feels depressing. For me a song has to be pitch-black, meaning it has to have as a theme that there is no way out, to be depressing. Take "Goodbye Cruel World" as an example, that's a depressing song. Is "Mother" a depressing song? Not really, it's sad but there is always that silver lining of hope connected to breaking free from it all.

This genre however, "Etheral Wave", seems to focus on moody atmospheres, so it all seems to be "depressing" or at least "sad" I guess.

Oh and btw, some fresh happy music of today! Enjoy!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJO3ROT-A4E

...

[Josef_K]

To quote Dio when he was asked why there was so much of "Dehumanizer" in the "The Devil You Know" album... "Well, the world hasn't been a very happy place for a long long time". I guess most musicians just try to reflect their reality in their music, and it simply isn't that happy. Maybe life is generally more of a downer ^^. I don't know, of course it varies and everything but still, it seems legit to me. The sadder albums might sell better since more people can relate to them more often as well.

As I said I listened to some songs by Kate Bush, I don't think it's anything for me to be honest. Joni Mitchell I've more or less only heard "Coyote" from "The Last Waltz", not too bad but as a songwriter maybe not the most interesting. I'm simply not touched by the atmosphere in any of their songs. I can respect them as good musicians though, but that's something completely different. I had no idea Kate Bush was THAT famous though, I've only ever heard her name once or twice before.

And yeah, moody music in the veins of Etheral Wave seems to focus on female singers, I can see why. Their ability to soar above everything else without grabbing ALL the attention goes along well with how they generally build up the atmospheres. Having a male hard rock singer doing the same thing one octave down might not be the best idea... Then again as I said it is a genre that seems to be used mostly as a sub-genre for many groups, not many bands seem to play only Etheral Wave. So it varies I guess.

[Josef_K]

Yes, it arises from the artists perspective. Dio says that, but I believe he was really a very bitter person and more than usual. I think we all project our own personal struggles onto the world and you see that a lot with Iron Maiden. Instead of Steve addressing his own troubles he and Blaze both wanted to do war song after war song. I doubt Steve is really feeling the pain of a Pakistani child under a missiles flightpath everyday, nor was Geezer when he did War Pigs. I don't think it's a coincidence that people write those songs when they're younger mainly. Only a few years ago one of my fave albums was Darkness on the edge of town by Springsteen which is a very dark album even with it's tone of optimism. Floyd's Animals was one of my top staples, it spoke directly to me. But at some point I found myself more in a place where I could move on from that stuff though I still enjoy the music at times.

I don't see any flaws in your arguments, except the fact that hardly any (actually I think none) of the songwriters I look up to have "moved on" in a similar way. Sure, Roger Waters says he has in a way, but has he written anything about that experience? No. I'm sorry, I just can't see anything worth "moving on" to. Then again, I am young so maybe that's the problem :D

[Sporkman GB]

Music is like fiction; nobody wants to hear a happy story--at least anyone looking for substance.... I mean, happy music sells well, but so do "happily ever after" formula books/movies. For me though, art is about channeling emotions. Not an easy pick-up. I like some "happy/party" music (KISS, Van Halen) but "depressing/political" music is more appealing to me, and most people with more than a passing interest in music.

As for Ethereal Wave, it's interesting; I like atmosphere in music, but this doesn't necessarily blow me away. Very cool though, thanks Josef for bringing it to my attention, might come back to it at some point.

[Josef_K]

@Sporkman GB
Nice to see another person in this thread :D I can imagine that you have to be in love with this kind of atmosphere to be a "fan" of etheral wave, but just like you say it can be interesting for others as well. I didn't really expect everyone to love the genre, I just wanted to see what other people thought about it, mostly of course people who are not as focused as I am on atmosphere in music. I think you are making a little misjudgement on happy music, though one that is very easy to understand. Much of the happier music is crap like what I linked to Ron Paul some replies back, "bands" like "One Direction" that have less content than a book where someone has eaten all the pages. But happy lyrics don't have to mean party lyrics, same goes for the music. Ron Paul mentioned "Animals" earlier, the song "Pigs on the Wing" on that album is a perfect example of how happy music sometimes is direly needed to complete a complex and emotional concept. Again I must admit, there aren't THAT many examples.

@Ron Paul
"We relate to things based on our experience". I can agree on that 100%. Then again you can never be sure, there are lots of people who listen to for example songs about war and stuff because they think it's cool (I know it's wrong to categorize people but at least I think Manowar fans here :D). Are they trying to deal with some kind of inner dilemma? I hardly think so. They listen to (and maybe even write) that kind of music because they feel strong and masculine and all those primitive emotions. Some people are unintelligent and will write unintelligent music, it can be happy/depressing doesn't really matter. Yet again, lots of happy music is party music, I guess dumb people are generally happier? ^^

[Monster Boy]

I'm curious what you mean by atmospheric. That might be hard to nail down in words, so maybe an example of music without atmosphere. I imagine AC/DC has no atmosphere, sort of like the moon?

The samples sound fine to me, nothing I would choose to listen to or buy. The Chelsea Wolfe has interesting harmonies and the production quality for all of the tracks you put up is all very nice. I guess it's just too homogeneous for my taste, I tend to prefer music that is "adventurous", ie it goes to different, unexpected places. Sampling through the tracks it seemed like the three minute mark was basically the same as the two minute mark, and the one minute mark, and so on. That has its own value for me, for getting massages and things like that. Thanks for sharing it anyways.

[Josef_K]

I'm curious what you mean by atmospheric. That might be hard to nail down in words, so maybe an example of music without atmosphere. I imagine AC/DC has no atmosphere, sort of like the moon?

The samples sound fine to me, nothing I would choose to listen to or buy. The Chelsea Wolfe has interesting harmonies and the production quality for all of the tracks you put up is all very nice. I guess it's just too homogeneous for my taste, I tend to prefer music that is "adventurous", ie it goes to different, unexpected places. Sampling through the tracks it seemed like the three minute mark was basically the same as the two minute mark, and the one minute mark, and so on. That has its own value for me, for getting massages and things like that. Thanks for sharing it anyways.

It is indeed hard to nail down, mostly because different atmospheres are generated in different kinds of music. Music that is "atmospheric" in my using of the word tends to be either very "epic" (think "When Death Calls" or "Stargazer") or very dreamy and "floating" (think "Echoes" or "April" (deep purple)). Then again the word is really kind of the same as "feeling", you can have a feeling of being on stage right in front of the band, that's an atmosphere as well right? I don't think ACDC could be called an "atmospheric band" though, at least I wouldn't see the connection.

I agree on that Chelsea Wolfe doesn't have too much variation in her music, but honestly that would make it much worse if you ask me. The thing with her music for me is to float away, try to go deeper into the lyrics and the background noises, make out your own picture and float away into it (seriously, I don't take drugs, trust me). Anyway, I also enjoy music where there's a great hook and so on (Sabbath for example...) but artists like Chelsea have to be careful with those, they may work when isolated but in an "etheral" album they could be more disturbing than a "good variation". With that said, there are hooks on her album, actually the strongest one is the main riff of the track I shared with you. I can totally see what you're getting at though, you have to love the plain atmosphere to love the genre I'd say.

Do note that I don't consider atmosphere the only parameter I care about when it comes to music. Feeling is very important, ACDC has plenty of feeling mostly in Bon Scotts attitude. But that's another thing

[Monster Boy]

I agree on that Chelsea Wolfe doesn't have too much variation in her music, but honestly that would make it much worse if you ask me. The thing with her music for me is to float away, try to go deeper into the lyrics and the background noises, make out your own picture and float away into it

I think you are right that variation in that type of music would muck up the goal of floating about. Sort of like Gregorian Chant, or certain Eastern Musics, or Tangerine Dream, or Enya for example. It depends on whether or not one wishes to float really. If you want that, and the music achieves that for you, then sweet!

[Sporkman GB]

@Sporkman GB
Nice to see another person in this thread :D I can imagine that you have to be in love with this kind of atmosphere to be a "fan" of etheral wave, but just like you say it can be interesting for others as well. I didn't really expect everyone to love the genre, I just wanted to see what other people thought about it, mostly of course people who are not as focused as I am on atmosphere in music. I think you are making a little misjudgement on happy music, though one that is very easy to understand. Much of the happier music is crap like what I linked to Ron Paul some replies back, "bands" like "One Direction" that have less content than a book where someone has eaten all the pages. But happy lyrics don't have to mean party lyrics, same goes for the music. Ron Paul mentioned "Animals" earlier, the song "Pigs on the Wing" on that album is a perfect example of how happy music sometimes is direly needed to complete a complex and emotional concept. Again I must admit, there aren't THAT many examples.

^^

I agree happy music isn't "party" music, 100% of the time and happy music can be good, but there's alot less territory to work with when it comes to happy music--as long as it's actually channeling that "happy" feeling though I'm pretty much fine with it. The problem comes (for me) with music lacking any soul, for lack of a better word. But yeah, music can lack that even if it's "sad."
Of course polarizing music to being "happy" or "sad" isn't giving the artist enough credit, in most cases.

[Josef_K]

Of course polarizing music to being "happy" or "sad" isn't giving the artist enough credit, in most cases.

One of the best things anyone has said in these forums during my time here. I fully agree!

[Josef_K]

I count those primal dumbed down emotions as also part of their experience. Not that all Manowar fans are like that either, but most are. I mean, I love Van Halen, but I'm not a dumb redneck like most of the guys on the Roth army forums or vhnd.

Is Pigs on the wing very optimistic? That's Roger weighing the distinct possibility that he might end up dying of cancer if he doesn't find shelter from the pigs. It's better than the sentiments in Dogs though. I count the stuff on Animals as a neccessary part of one's thought and emotional process going through life. It's not a nice place to be stuck in though. It's an unfortunate part of the conditioning through Science, religion and culture that one is a biological android that has no control over their environment. It has a taken a great effort on the part of society's masters to bring mankind to this level, it's not natural. Unfortunately people like Roger took to his old age to even begin to realize that. But he was a control freak, that's why he couldn't understand the better side of humanity himself. What the pigs did to his father and him, is what he took out on those around him or perhaps vice versa. Some call that karma in action. He was like the dogs, and that teacher in the Wall. So much if not all of that we see is a projection of our true selves.

I consider "Pigs on the Wing" to be optimistic because it suggests that there is a possibility to escape all the Pigs and Dogs in this world. "You know that I care, what happens to you, and I know that you care, for me too..." is the essence here. Friendship and probably most of all love seems to be Roger's tiny solution to the gigantic problems. He never guarenteed that it worked though, only that it COULD work. If "Animals" had been a happy album, if this world had been a happy place, songs like "Pigs on the Wing" would have take a much larger part of the album. Roger did screw lots of things up in a very ironic way, then again all those people around him were far from perfect themselves, and even if they had been I can fully understand that Roger began behaving in the way that he did. At least he has grown into a very wise man today, and he'll always be the best songwriter to ever live on this planet, that ain't too bad now is it? :D