Ron Paul & Billy Underdog bitching at each other

[Billy Underdog]

I mentioned Floyd, because I like them and you said I only like bands that others hate, which is not true.

No matter how you discovered them you are very well read on the background, so you got that from somewhere.

Yes, Duran was hyped by MTV. Then they quickly fell and have been a pariah since. But also outside of MTV, all the critics bashed them even in the early 80s.

I'm not talking mostly about liking something that one is "supposed to". I'm talking a great deal about idealizing something, which is extremely easy to do with the Beatles. It's easy to add up their superficialities and make the music seem far stronger than it was. They were seriously lacking in depth most of the time.

Yes, when i find a band i like, i ofcourse read up on them. I'm a rock-history nerd, and when reading about bands/music that way, i ofcourse discover new stuff. Is that wrong?

And liking music is to me way more than just the music itself. It's the story of the band, the attitude of the members, how i discovered them, memories i have connected with it. And for this Beatles are the perfect band, as you say. Also i had a great relationship with a girl who was equally as big a fan of theirs as me.
So, yes, i idolize Beatles, but not because someone has told me to, but because they've have becomed a part of my life in that way. I don't see what's so wrong about that?

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

What do you mean cheap shots? Why don't the Beatles and the other groups I know you like count?

I was trying to challange you to find some hyped bands you thought i might like, since you're trying to tell me i only like stuff because i'm supposed to, so i could show you that i'm not just a shallow narrowminded idiot who gets my musical taste from Classic Rock Magazine or whatever. But you kinda ruined that point when you included so many bands you already knew i like and love.

[Billy Underdog]

I agree that many of these bands might have gotten an extremely high status, but the way i see it is that many of them (but not all) have gotten that because they deserve it.
And yes, i know many people have high regards for Beatles because it's fashionable, but they don't love them the way i do. My great love for them are genuine, so i hope you understand that i get a bit offended when you say i'm just jumping on a hype-bandwagon.

As for the list of bands, i hope you noticed that there were several bands that i consider kinda so-so, and a couple i outright hate (Stones and Pearl Jam).

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Just to give you an example of some of my musical taste:

http://www.myspace.com/monolithicmusic

Check out the tune Twist Of The Knife.

Seeing this band live is mindblowing.

[KazolOrajia]

Hahaha, there's an actual thread for this!

[Billy Underdog]

Hahaha, there's an actual thread for this!

It was made just to move our discussion away from two other threads so we don't bother everyone else.

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

like REM for example. Even if critics were all heavy metal fans, the current crop of indie loving writers would still love REM even if they weren't music critics. Either way, REM is a overrated group

Though you may feel that every popular band are overrated, does'nt mean they are. Not a big REM-fan myself, just like a few tunes here and there, but i acknowledge their position in the music-scene, and i think they deserve that spot.

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 AM ----------

Personally I'd rather the thread be called the Ron Paul and Billy Underdog drink cups of tea and make delightful conversation in a pleasant countryside shop thread

"We are representing the humble cup-of-tea-company of Tibet. Would you like some tea?" - Gong - Outer Temple

(I guess Gong are too hyped too? )

[Billy Underdog]

Yes, REM, considered to be one of the greatest bands ever since the 70s. Ofcourse they are, why sure.

No, that's ofcourse Guns N' Roses, Nirvana and Alice In Chains.

But i've come to terms with the fact that this "hype-hatred" of yours is nothing but your own hype, so i don't bother to discuss it with you anymore.
Seems like whatever i say, you just disagree just to disagree.

So just let us who like music you choose to dislike because "too many like it and it's overrated" just like it in peace, without you having to express your negative feelings about how you think it's hyped up all the time , and stick with your semi-popular music so you can feel "original and special".

[Billy Underdog]

You manage again to not have a real point.

Yeah yeah yeah... You're really the one to talk about that...
I was just stating facts.

This will be my last post on this thread. Hope we'll be able to act civilized against each other in other threads despite this. I like having a chat with you, and even a little discussion now and then, but this has become way too silly...

[Billy Underdog]

Hey, Paulie-boy (excuse me, i'm just in a very happy mood right now).

This is just a question, and i hope it won't start yet another endless arguing because of it.

I was wondering, since you seem to think that everything i like is generic hyped stuff, i was just wondering what you think about David Bowie in the period of '99 till '03 ('Hours...' and Heathen are fantastic, Reality is O.K..)?

On a side-note, the other Bowie-era i prefer are pre-Ziggy-stuff, especially The Man Who Sold The World, the first album David Bowie, sometimes called The Gospels Of David Bowie and the Deram-singles.

But ofcourse, i also like the hyped up Ziggy Stardust and "Heroes"...


In short: the three best Bowie-albums are:
Man Who Sold...
Heathen
'Hours...'

And this time; please answer my question. (It's on the top of the post...)

[Billy Underdog]

1. Outside (the albums actual name) is a very strange record, that was Bowie at his hight of the XTC-groove, and yet another album with Brian Eno (guess you understand my point of mentioning him ).

A Lad Insane is basically Ziggy pt. 2, good album, but far from one of my favorites.

Hunky Dory is kinda the transition between the psychedelic-hippie style of Space Oddity to the hard-rock style of Man Who Sold & Ziggy (and was actually recorded before Man Who, but you know these record-companies)

I can understand you like Young Americans, the plastic-soul as he named it himself (i'm not trying to be offensive or joking now), and it's kinda a predecessor to bands like DD, don't you think?

Low is ofcourse the first of the "Berlin-triology", followed by "Heroes" and Lodger, once again with Eno heavily involved. Bowie and Iggy Pop decided to quit heroin, so they moved to the heroin-capitol of Europe . For months they lived on only amphetamines and paprika.

Earthling i have heard way too little of, but i love I'm Afraid Of Americans, especially some live-versions which is really heavy.

To sum it up; i like most of what he's done, exept from 1980 till '93, where he had a llittle inspired moment with Black Tie White Noice, then a bit too much XTC until '99 when 'Hours...' happened.

And i HIGHLY recommend 'Hours...' and Heathen. Can't decide which one is better, they're both great.
And check out The Man Who Sold The World if you haven't.



Edit: Heathen is actually better than 'Hours...'

[Thelemech]

Good to see the two of you getting along.....

...cheers guys!

[Billy Underdog]

Good to see the two of you getting along.....

...cheers guys!

As we did to begin with, but we both like to state our opinions, and we both have strong opinions that doesn't always match...

[Billy Underdog]

As for opinions and disagreements, my mother is a damn Libra too ... she is one mad person.

The Norwegian word for Libra is Vekt (Weight).



We're well balanced.

[Billy Underdog]

I prefer the natural scientific approach to stars & planets:

[Billy Underdog]

Thing is, i comment on what alot of people say on these forums, just one little comment, if they say something i think is stupid, or funny, something i agree with, or disagree with...

But you're the only one who has to turn that little comment into a long discussion instead of just letting it pass by. That's what i mean by you derailing from topic.

And yeah, if someone choose to call themself Ron Paul AND has "The Revolution: A Manifesto" as his avatar, it's easy to interpret them as republicans, do you really don't understand that?

[Billy Underdog]

I've said before that I'm not republican. If you read more about Paul you'll find most of his supporters are not republicans.

I know you have, just had to repeat it anyway.

Non-republicans following a republican? Strange... Like a communist following Hitler or something...

Oh no, let's not turn this into an illegal political discussion. You can come with your come-back comment on that one, and then we'll leave it there. Or else we might get banned the both of us...

[zxzxzx]

Thanks for sharing this nice post

[Billy Underdog]

A good physical crap is one of the best sensations a human being can have, only topped by an orgasm, finally getting to pee after needing to for hours, a little hit of acid or a good bong-hit

Mental crap on the other hand is unnecessary, and Scorpions ARE crap. I can stand In Trance on a nostalgic basis, but that's it...

Also i did find Lonesome Crow kinda interesting (though i only listened trough it once) because of it's Krautrock-ish sond that differs very from the mainstream Hard Rock they became. Can't really say i liked it though...

[Billy Underdog]

As i said, my liking of In Trance is nostalgic, as i used to listen alot to it as a kid. But now i can hear how crappy it is. I didn't hear the other stuff till later when i had acquired quite a different taste.

Skid Row: I've heard enough, and that's more than just Youth Gone Wild.

I know Bowie was Glam for a little while, hell he was one of the "inventors" of the genre. I love the good "first wave" Glam, like Bowie and T. Rex. Roxy and Slade became too washed up "second wave" for me. And i know you like those 70's bands, but there's always an exception that confirms the rule, isn't it?
Bands like Roxy and Slade (along with Journey and Kansas just to name a few) are some of the reasons the 80's became so horrible.


I've seen the GAK-stuff, i found Sebastian Bach doing Gn'R and Metallica more enjoyable than Axl doing Skid Row. Why? Bach is a good enough vocalist, and the songs he had to work with were great. Axl, though not always the best live-vocalist, are capable, but the song he had to work with were crap. You can't polish a turd...

Gn'R (or atleast Axl and Adler) had a Glam-look in the early days, and they were in the middle of the mid-80's L.A.-scene, but their music and attitude were always far removed from the other Sunset Strip-wankers (much because of Slash, Izzy and Duff).
I know Axl and Sebastian are good friends, and i don't care. Jerry Cantrell are friends with the guys in Nickleback too, but that don't mean i see Nickleback in a better light.

No wonder your favorite Gn'R-tunes are the most well-known pop-songs. Only ones lacking are November Rain and Estranged...

[Billy Underdog]

Well as always I must critique your highly flawed analysis. I don't know what it is about you Libra's... just read what Don Dokken has to say about the illogical George Lynch.

I don't really know what that was a responce to, so i'd appreciate if you'd elaborate on what my flawed analysis was. Also, please stop using New Age-philosophy as an argument, as that just make your statements even more ridiculous.

And what is good songwriting? Lately i've been listening alot to Katzenjammers cover of Land Of Confusion, which i really hate the original of. But somehow, as Katzenjammer is a better band than Collins-Genesis, they really make a good song out of it. So good songwriting is one thing, but it doesn't help if the band can't do the song justice.


(check out how heavy the chorus is, with just Piano and Drums)

And, yeah, the whole Appetite-album, Right Next Door To Hell, Back Off Bitch, The Garden/Garden Of Eden, Coma, Dust n' Bones, Double Talkin' Jive, Dead Horse, Civil War, Pretty Tied Up... Truely forgettable songs . Whereas every random man in the streets can really name alot of Scorpions-tunes beyond Winds Of Change, Send Me An Angel or Rock You Like A Hurricane (yeah, i know that's 80's-stuff, but i'm trying to make a point here). I don't think you should call Gn'R('s music) forgettable compaired to Scorpions.

[Billy Underdog]

One minute you were saying I was commercial, now you're talking about Scorpions lack of mass appeal.

And the connection is?

Really, those songs you listed apart from Civil War are just so-so and not much more. I regard Illusions exactly the same way as I do the black album.

That's all about taste, really. But if you consider Appetite just so-so, there must be something wrong with you...

About those ho's in the video you posted: it's got all my pet peeves in one, but it applies to most bands today.

Cover version instead of original - Check
Girls dressed up like whores for appeal - Check
'Ironic' versions of songs - by making them 'jazzy' 'r'n'b', or playing them on piano etc - Check
Absolutely without a point - You bet your life.

Only cover they've done, and it was really just done because they were asked to by a radio-show. As they found out they enjoyed doing it, it became part of their set. It was all just coincidental.

Can't you see beyond the looks to enjoy the music? And can't a girl dress sexy/cute for her own sake, without it being for appeal? That's a very sexist notion you've got there.

Once again, only cover, and it's not done "ironic", it's done in their own style as they're more a pop-&-balkan/folk/ompa/hooray-band than a Rock-band.

And is there really any other point to music than just enjoying it?

I really feel sorry for people who let their musical pet peeves stand in the way of them broadening their musical horizon.

Once again you've failed to see my point...

[Billy Underdog]

So me saying you're commercial but Scorpions lack mass-appeal (which wasn't really what i said at all, once again you've misunderstood me) are contradicted myself? I still can't see the connection between you and them... Sometimes you seem to have the logical reasonings of Karl Pilkington.

You should really not talk about own style, musical horizon and predictability about a band who's 8 year long career you know nothing about exept one cover which doesn't tell anything about the band at all. Stop presuming things when you don't know anything about the issue.

And why the hell did they become the topic? I used them as an example that good song-writing (which you argued Skid Row had) don't mean a thing when the band is crap. But i should have known... As always you fail to see my point.


You might get off on being some sort of "dressing-police", but luckily there's people who can think for themselves in this world. And you should really not cry wolf about dumb trends...

[Billy Underdog]

I won't bother with the above anymore

Yeah, i guess it's hard to reply when you don't understand what's being said...

my strong informed opinion is that they're going to be as unoriginal in their original stuff.

Wow. Must be great knowing everything. Did you see that in you crystal ball?

No wonder you fell for trends like grunge and think you're 'different'.

Yeah, i was 8-9 when the grunge-thing happened, stuck in a valley in the middle of nowhere, so i was really into following trends. I didn't even hear about it till years later. Actually i hated Grunge well into my late teens. And i don't listen to it to feel different, how can i when everybody else listen to it too? People who listen to Duran Duran and Dokken do it to feel different.

Yeah every girl that wears gym pants is thinking for themselves. Rofl

Who's wearing gym-pants?

Yeah! I know hard rock was a trend but it was real at the same time. The same applies to everything.

Exept Grunge?

[Billy Underdog]

The trend here is to wear gym pants, girls mainly.

Once again; who's wearing gym-pants? I assume you're referring to the Katzenjammer-video? If not, once again you've dragged an argument right out of the blue...

[clockwork]

Bitchin' like this would be banned on other music forums out there

[Billy Underdog]

RP, today i suddenly realized i should've dedicated this song to you a long long time ago...

[Billy Underdog]

Highly simplistic but predictable.

And how fitting that you see "words of wisdom" in a loser who abused hard drugs till the time he died. Yes, let's ask Entwhistle to join in on a discussion of how life works. I suppose you too have explored things to the level I have? But no you haven't. You're not a liberal, but a classic hipster, spouting trivialities, using facetious language in place of anything intelligent. Real liberals talk about most of the things I do. You have politically correct language learned from authority and you belong to the social groups, but you're not the real thing.

It's Entwistle, not Entwhistle...

[Joe Siegler]

I've had enough. Stop or be banned. Final warning.