Bill responds to Geezer

[Damian]

http://www.billward.com/2012/05/resp...ers-statement/

With Joe as webmaster for both of these guys' websites, it's almost like he's passing notes back and forth in gym class. A very unique situation!

[KazolOrajia]

Well, I'm still withholding judgement. In cases like this, the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. I told my Dad about the fiasco, and his reply was 'The truth is probably in the middle.' He doesn't even know I say that ^^.

Shit like this happens with rock bands. I'm gonna focus on the music-that's all that matters to me.

[Borg]

The more I read Bill's statements, the less I trust Him.

[Soul Sucker]

Good lord, I wish Bill would stop with the public statements. If he disagrees with something Geezer said, CONTACT HIM!!!

At this point I don't care if Bill's in or out. They played fine without him last night. I am sick of the drama!

[SDMF Jon]

The more I read Bill's statements, the less I trust Him.

Agreed. Or not so much not trust, but feel like he's being a little petty and leaving out other information that might be relevant. Oh well.

[KazolOrajia]

I'm glad to see there are some mutual feelings in this thread.

[kentuckyfan]

This sounds like 4 guys not talking to each other but through the filter and distoration of the media. I just want to see this like up on tobetween the arguing and Tony's illness it probally won't.

[8bit Fighter]

Man, screw this. Times like these, glad I can just pull out my old 2005 bootleg of the show I went to and listen. Sure there is no new songs, but it's better than nothing.

[IRON-MaN]

I think this whole situation is becoming really childish and silly , with all due respect to Bill , and whether he is right or wrong , THIS is not a professional way to conduct such issues in public , if Bill sees that his band mates are not offering him a proper contract and if he thinks that he is being mistreated for one reason or other , I guess the only proper thing to do is to walk out of the thing and give a very brief public announcement that he is not going to be there due to musical or contractual reasons ( what ever !)

Anyway I've moved forward and looking forward to any new Sabbath albums and live tours , I love Bill , but this is still Black Sabbath to me , for those who feel that there is no Sabbath without Bill , or that the other 3 guys are greedy , or whatever other reasons they have , you can simply choose not buy or go and see them live , ranting and bashing members and managers from both sides won't help the case for sure !

[Monster Boy]

This back and forth is starting to resemble one of those endless internet debates between Underdog and Ron Paul!

Just messing with ya folks, but reading the statements is kind of like reading a thread in some random internet forum. "They gave me an unsignable contract!" "you were asking for an unreasonable amount!" "Nuh-uh!" and so on.

[Billy Underdog]

This back and forth is starting to resemble one of those endless internet debates between Underdog and Ron Paul!

Just messing with ya folks, but reading the statements is kind of like reading a thread in some random internet forum. "They gave me an unsignable contract!" "you were asking for an unreasonable amount!" "Nuh-uh!" and so on.

You're spot on with your whole post.

[DNavajoC]

Honestly, with all the respect to Bill as the best drummer Sabbath ever had, but there is no concern with the fans. If there was any, he would be playing. After putting his face in the reunion announcement, he gave us his word and that's why we spent all cash in tickets and travels. Now he will not play, and we will still pay for it. If he had any respect to us fans he would be playing, since we are only talking about 3 concerts. The only reason why he is using the media is to use us fans to help him on making money. I will no longer do that. I now care about Tony and all his personal battle against cancer. I now care about Geezer and all his efforts on reuniting Sabbath again. I'm glad enough to see the wonderful videos from Birmingham and can't wait for an opportunity to see them playing live. After all that happened, Bill now looks to me more like one more itinerant member of Sabbath, and the band is more important. Again, with all the respect, thank you for everything Bill, but this time you let us down.

[mds]

It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. When there isn't any information people complain; when information is shared people complain as well.
The risk that Bill took by holding out was allowing the band to get comfortable with another drummer and for the fans to see/hear that the position could be capably filled. Any leverage Bill might have had is now gone as the general concert going public doesn't know or doesn't care who is behind the drumkit; they just want to hear the tunes. The hardcore fans may care but that will have no impact on any decisions.
As for a new album, whether it's Clufetus or a session drummer, the new songs have likely already been written with a drum machine so they are just going to be told what/how to play by Tony the same way Vinnie was for TDYK. As much as I would like to have seen Bill live I was much more interested to what his contributions, both writing and playing, would have been for the new album. If he isn't (or never was going to be) involved with the writing then I'm not sure it really matters who plays drums.

[Billy Underdog]

and for the fans to see/hear that the position could be capably filled.

I don't think he was capable...

[TYR66]

Bill can no longer play. I said it from the beginning.
He delights in his last moment of fame. It 's part of the glorious past of the band now
I 've dreamed to see them all 4. but it's over . End of the chapter and turn the page .
Hail Tony and Geezer .

[19Barras92]

For me is the whole situation a little bit embarrassing, it looks like two kids argue who hits first each other. I mean come on, that is not a behaviour between four men who are 60 years old. And I just don't mention for Bills behaviour.
I know juveniles who can talk to each other if they have a problem or an argument.
So I just can agree with other people here.
Bill call Tony, Ozzy or Geezer
And Geezer, Tony and Ozzy call Bill.
Instead of writing public statements which just increase the gap between them... between old buddies!

[DNavajoC]

Bill can no longer play. I said it from the beginning.
He delights in his last moment of fame. It 's part of the glorious past of the band now
I 've dreamed to see them all 4. but it's over . End of the chapter and turn the page .
Hail Tony and Geezer .

Indeed, that's the only statement that explains the whole s#*t.

[TYR66]

and Tomorrow , Geezer ' ll respond to Bill , and after Geezer etc , etc , etc .....
great debate .

[19Barras92]

If you read Bill's statements he clearly says he has made moves to contact them. But they are the ones who stopped talking to him before his first statement. You can't blame Bill Ward or the representatives for Sabbath. The others knew about it and were trying to shut him out. Geezer is being deceptive with his 'heavy hearted' statement. People in his position do that a lot. This whole 'both need to grow up' argument is a cop out. Easy for outsiders to say that. 'Oh grow up, you two.' If people were in a similar situation themselves with an employer, an aggressive bully nation, a relative who raped them, they would be singing a completely different tune. Sadly, the ability to empathize is minimal in a great many people.

Of course you are right, I don't know the whole story, nobody know the whole story except Black Sabbath and the Managers. But what I want to say, that I blame to sides, Tony, Ozzy, Geezer and Bill. And I don't trust Geezer and I don't trust Bill, too. Somebody said it, the truth is in the middle of somewhere. But would it make the situtation easier to understand if they went to public instead of talking to them or manager or so....
In my opinion no!

[19Barras92]

The reason people say 'the truth is in the middle' is because it is an easily spoken cliche and they have nothing to lose themselves.

The reason why people say "the truth is in the middle" is that we can not say the right answer
Maybe you are right, maybe you are not right.
I just don't trust any kind of allegations, because that is not right, too.
I don't want to judge Bill
I don't want Black Sabbath

I can just say my opinion how it looks like. And for me this argument has more than one face.
Maybe sometimes in the future we will get more wisdom and know the reasons and so. But until this day I don't want to blame on special side. That wouldn'd be justified.

[Billy Underdog]

What is the solution if Sabbath have no intention of talking to Bill even though he does? It's not a communication barrier. Sabbath are being selfish, and they couldn't care less about Bill. You see it in other bands too, the non-team player gets frozen out. If Geezer stood up for himself he'd be drummed out of there too.

The reason people say 'the truth is in the middle' is because it is an easily spoken cliche and they have nothing to lose themselves.

1:47-1:54 is what Sabbath should be thinking right now...

(And it's a nice song from a great album you all can enjoy to lighten up the tension a bit. )

[Billy Underdog]

I will not say you're derailing the thread by posting David Bowie in it.

Just say it, couse i kinda did. But it was that one lyrical line i was trying to make a point out of. (a point i've been trying to get along several times)

Btw, check out my latest post on our bitching-thread. I'm really curious about your answer...

Edit: I see you already did

[DaveDeals]

I can't name my source, but I have it on good authority that Bill Ward is secretly producing a staging of "Saucy Jack" in London. And not only that, but Geezer Butler is a silent partner.

This whole thing is a charade. A facade. Not lies... Just bullshit.