Yeah, will sound great without a drummer
says here how tony worked through chemotherapy to work. also ozzy comments on the new material and says they will
write 2 more songs. also says 15 songs already recorded, not sure how true that bit is though.
Do what you will to try and make me conform
I`ll make you wish that you had never been born
Yeah, will sound great without a drummer
Originally Posted by Monster Boy
Depends on who is doing the rating. If they agree with me, they've rated it just right.
*whimpers prayer for a solution involving bill ward*
It is essential for a classical sabbath album that the drums heavilly display a groove synonymous to Bills syncapation. Imagine the entire paranoid album with, say, Vinny Appice or Tommy Clufetos- hell, imagine any album with Bill- it just wouldnt be correct, it would sound incomplete and frankly nearly tasteless.
regardless, I am very eager to hear these songs- especially Tony and Geezers sections. I hope the bass is heavily amplified.
I guess the final product twill have about 10 songs. Five of them may be unused.
The world is a lonely place - you're on your own.
Guess I will go home - sit down and moan.
Crying and thinking is all that I do.
Memories I have remind me of you,
Of you, of you...
"I don't care which god you follow, whose promises you swallow" - Ronnie James Dio
the drummer comments are boring and tired, if 1 member is out, be it the drummer, the least of any loss in a band, esp. BS.
"If we're offensive and pose a threat, you fear what we represent is a mess" - Ozzy Osbourne - The Ultimate Sin
I think we can all agree that this new album will have excellent bass and guitar, I mean just looking at how well they were playing at Birmingham and Download, but then Iommi and Geezer are always strong together, best in the business I think.
Tired of the drummer comments as well. I would like to see a total Black Sabbath lineup with the 4 original members as much as the next guy, but 3 out of 4 isn't bad at all, if that's what it comes down to. I'm sure if you were to honestly draw up a chart as to the order of importance for members in Black Sabbath, Bill Ward would be #4.
1. Tony (for the riffs)
2. Bill (for the swing and the eclecticism)
3. Ozzy (for the haunting vocals and the melody)
4. Geezer (for the lyrics and cool bass)
That said - none are dispensible in my book.
Man Bill's drumming was crazy important in Sabbath's overall sound. Bill was imperative in the construction of the formative sounds of Sabbath's career; look at Wicked World, War Pigs, Iron Man, Supernaut, hell you pick a song and Bill's drumming stands out. They aren't just beats; they're an instrumental (no pun intended) part of the cohesion of the band, and I think we can all agree that Sabbath would be just another band without Bill. Indeed, they were for a majority of the late 80's and into the 90's. Tony's the master of riffs, I give you that, but his riffs are just part of that core Sabbath sound. Iron Man is a badass song, but it's not as badass without Bill taking up the best seat in the house.
Bill Ward has always been, and will always be, one of the best drummers of all time. His eclectic style of play trumps the mastery of Neil Pert and the simplicity of Jon Bonham. His style is best when combined with the brilliance of Tony Iommi's riffs, and those two elements have always sounded best with Ozzy and Geezer to boot. It's hard to not like Ozzy, Geezer and Tony getting back together, but for die-hard fans it's a noticeable difference if Bill isn't there. I don't think the music is as strong without him.
It'd be nice to keep stuff pleasant here. I'm not looking for censorship, just a little thought for people's feelings on touchy subjects
If anyone feels different then I apologise and will shut up
The only riff that I'm aware of that Geezer came up with was the intro to Symptoms of the Universe (Black Sabbath Story Vol.2). I would assume he wrote the main riff for N.I.B. too but not sure. The bass playing on Vol.4 and Technical Ecstasy is low key so I would imagine he wrote lyrics only for those two but everything else I suppose is possible that he introduced the main riff (after all - he did start out as a rhythm guitarist).
Timekeeping is essential for the feel of the whole band. The way I see it:
Ozzy: ahead of the beat
Tony: lagging behind the beat (the musical leader)
Bill: locked with Tony, but with a swing feel
Geezer: in time
Other bands with strong guitarists/writers have a similar approach. Where the guitarist sets the pace and the drummer locks in (Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who to name a few)
Super animation, turning on a nation
And theyíre saying all moving parts stand still
One thing I admire about Ozzy is that he could sing over anything they put in front of him (at least before he became a complete addict). He did not require specific chord changes, or structure like most lead singers do. Perhaps it's because he didn't know any different - having essentially started his career with Sabbath - I don't know, but it made for some cool songs IMO.
On a total tangent here, the collaboration I'd most like to hear (based only on their solo work) would be one between Geezer and Bill. Bill's solo stuff is wildly eclectic yet probably the strongest musically. Geezer's stuff is particularly brutal. Put those two things together and you'll have something!
The Four Horsemen on NWA/WCW was
Ole left and with Barry Windham or whoever in there it was still the Four Horsemen. Any time Ric and Arn where together everyone said it was the Horsemen.
So If Iommi - Butler - Osbourne are together in a band, it will be Black Sabbath. So if Bill is on board or not it will be a Black Sabbath album.
Pain and Poison Roses
Ha ha ha...that is a great analogy! I remember the Four Horseman thing on NWA/WCW. I think by the end that there were even a few others who took their turn as part of the Four. Tully Blanchard was a bad choice for this group. You can't be one of the Four Horseman and have a manager named "Babydoll".
1. Officially? That's easy - if it says "Black Sabbath" on the album cover or on the concert billing then, yes, it is officially "Black Sabbath" (no matter who's in the band!)
2. In the opinion of the fans? Each individual fan makes this choice for themselves.
It's fairly obvious at this point that the album and the concert billings will say "Black Sabbath" - so officially it IS Black Sabbath.
Is it Black Sabbath in the fans eyes? That's a whole other story. One fan pronouncing "it is Black Sabbath", just because that's their opinion doesn't mean anything - other than that.
Essentially, all you're saying is "this is my opinion and - because it's MY opinion - it's right!"
Well the truth is it doesn't matter what some fans think. If it says Black Sabbath on the album cover the band is called Black Sabbath...that's the end of it...regardless who's in the band, or who's not.
Honestly I'm sick and tired of all of this Bill crap already. He opted out. That was his choice. The rest have to move on and they have and they will. If Bill wants to come back, fine, if not fine...
What should the band have done? "Okay so Bill's out, we can't do an album anymore...let's scrap it" Would that have been a better choice? I doubt that.
-Too many flames, with too much to burn, and life's only made of paper. Oh how I need to be free of this pain but it goes over and over and over again-
---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
Did you hear that Eric Singer and Glenn Hughes are gonna form a band. Gonna call it Seventh Sabbath.
(just time for some humor here)
Pain and Poison Roses
[QUOTE=mds;295956]Actually Ozzy is the one who proclaimed it is Black Sabbath only if all four original members are involved. His words, his declaration. It doesn't get any more clear cut than that.[COLOR="silver"]
Can't really argue with that, he said it, and now he's shown that the only important part of that statement is his name and perhaps Tony and Geezers. Maybe he'll overdub the old reunion video where he said it for future releases, and re-record Clufetos over Bill Ward.
How was I to know it was "kiss the world with winter flowers"?