ozzy: New stuff is killer

[jacksabbath]

says here how tony worked through chemotherapy to work. also ozzy comments on the new material and says they will
write 2 more songs. also says 15 songs already recorded, not sure how true that bit is though.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/ne...motherapy.html

[Pink Led Rush]

Yeah, will sound great without a drummer

[descendingscales]

*whimpers prayer for a solution involving bill ward*
It is essential for a classical sabbath album that the drums heavilly display a groove synonymous to Bills syncapation. Imagine the entire paranoid album with, say, Vinny Appice or Tommy Clufetos- hell, imagine any album with Bill- it just wouldnt be correct, it would sound incomplete and frankly nearly tasteless.
regardless, I am very eager to hear these songs- especially Tony and Geezers sections. I hope the bass is heavily amplified.

[LouiST]

I guess the final product twill have about 10 songs. Five of them may be unused.

[Pink Led Rush]

I guess the final product twill have about 10 songs. Five of them may be unused.

Or maybe bonus tracks?

[MH1986]

Yeah, will sound great without a drummer

pssh, who needs a drummer....

[Ryan Porter]

pssh, who needs a drummer....

Watch your tongue, kid. Hahah

[Wicked Cricket]

the drummer comments are boring and tired, if 1 member is out, be it the drummer, the least of any loss in a band, esp. BS.

[farsh]

the drummer comments are boring and tired, if 1 member is out, be it the drummer, the least of any loss in a band, esp. BS.

[Ryan Porter]

Now THAT is hilarious

[TenCommandments]

[Pink Led Rush]

pssh, who needs a drummer....

They could hire me, man what would I give to play with those guys!

[lcollier]

I think we can all agree that this new album will have excellent bass and guitar, I mean just looking at how well they were playing at Birmingham and Download, but then Iommi and Geezer are always strong together, best in the business I think.

[Pink Led Rush]

You'd probably not get a signable contact and Sharon might try to hook you up with Kelly or even invite you to her room after getting you drunk.

Bahahahaha :D

[SDMF Jon]

the drummer comments are boring and tired, if 1 member is out, be it the drummer, the least of any loss in a band, esp. BS.

Amen! Get over it, people! I am so sick of this coming up every time there's any whisper of "news" regarding the new album. Guess what, Dio will never front the band again, either. Time to move on folks, because if all you have to offer is complaining, you're no better than those who have caused the problem.

[Zee]

Tired of the drummer comments as well. I would like to see a total Black Sabbath lineup with the 4 original members as much as the next guy, but 3 out of 4 isn't bad at all, if that's what it comes down to. I'm sure if you were to honestly draw up a chart as to the order of importance for members in Black Sabbath, Bill Ward would be #4.

[Tha Beast]

Amen! Get over it, people! I am so sick of this coming up every time there's any whisper of "news" regarding the new album. Guess what, Dio will never front the band again, either. Time to move on folks, because if all you have to offer is complaining, you're no better than those who have caused the problem.

But Bill Ward ain't dead...

[WallOfSleep]

I'm sure if you were to honestly draw up a chart as to the order of importance for members in Black Sabbath, Bill Ward would be #4.

Not in my book. Bill is second (behind Tony) in what I consider the order of influence on the original Sabbath sound.

My order:
1. Tony (for the riffs)
2. Bill (for the swing and the eclecticism)
3. Ozzy (for the haunting vocals and the melody)
4. Geezer (for the lyrics and cool bass)

That said - none are dispensible in my book.

[SDMF Jon]

But Bill Ward ain't dead...

His career is.

[Tha Beast]

His career is.

when you start associating life and death with your career - it's time to find a new career buddy.

[scorpio 2000]

Not in my book. Bill is second (behind Tony) in what I consider the order of influence on the original Sabbath sound.

My order:
1. Tony (for the riffs)
2. Bill (for the swing and the eclecticism)
3. Ozzy (for the haunting vocals and the melody)
4. Geezer (for the lyrics and cool bass)

That said - none are dispensible in my book.

Bill Ward #2? I thought Geezer was #2. I think your giving Bill too much credit. What songs did Bill write?

[Zee]

Not in my book. Bill is second (behind Tony) in what I consider the order of influence on the original Sabbath sound.

My order:
1. Tony (for the riffs)
2. Bill (for the swing and the eclecticism)
3. Ozzy (for the haunting vocals and the melody)
4. Geezer (for the lyrics and cool bass)

That said - none are dispensible in my book.

My order is:
1. Tony
2. Geezer
3. Ozzy
..
..
..
4. Bill

[WallOfSleep]

Bill Ward #2? I thought Geezer was #2. I think your giving Bill too much credit. What songs did Bill write?

What songs did Geezer write?

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

My order is:
1. Tony
2. Geezer
3. Ozzy
..
..
..
4. Bill

Hate... that's what that is.

[Anteaus44]

Man Bill's drumming was crazy important in Sabbath's overall sound. Bill was imperative in the construction of the formative sounds of Sabbath's career; look at Wicked World, War Pigs, Iron Man, Supernaut, hell you pick a song and Bill's drumming stands out. They aren't just beats; they're an instrumental (no pun intended) part of the cohesion of the band, and I think we can all agree that Sabbath would be just another band without Bill. Indeed, they were for a majority of the late 80's and into the 90's. Tony's the master of riffs, I give you that, but his riffs are just part of that core Sabbath sound. Iron Man is a badass song, but it's not as badass without Bill taking up the best seat in the house.

Bill Ward has always been, and will always be, one of the best drummers of all time. His eclectic style of play trumps the mastery of Neil Pert and the simplicity of Jon Bonham. His style is best when combined with the brilliance of Tony Iommi's riffs, and those two elements have always sounded best with Ozzy and Geezer to boot. It's hard to not like Ozzy, Geezer and Tony getting back together, but for die-hard fans it's a noticeable difference if Bill isn't there. I don't think the music is as strong without him.

[Ochlocracy]

What songs did Geezer write?

Around 60 actually.

[mike.x]

What songs did Geezer write?

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------



Hate... that's what that is.

Slightly strong my friend, but I agree that trying to separate Bill in that list was a slightly low blow. I've been impressed with the honest discussion over here and I think Joe Siegler will shut down any antagonistic stuff pretty quickly. I honestly am not sure why there are discussions about who is more important in the band. Aren't they all part of the legacy? Is Gilmour or Waters more important than Mason or Wright? What about Gabriel, Collins, Banks, Hackett, Rutherford, Philips?

It'd be nice to keep stuff pleasant here. I'm not looking for censorship, just a little thought for people's feelings on touchy subjects

If anyone feels different then I apologise and will shut up

[Billy Underdog]

Aren't they all part of the legacy?

Hear hear!

[Old_Papa_Rich]

It's the rhythm section, man.

[Tha Beast]

Man Bill's drumming was crazy important in Sabbath's overall sound. Bill was imperative in the construction of the formative sounds of Sabbath's career; look at Wicked World, War Pigs, Iron Man, Supernaut, hell you pick a song and Bill's drumming stands out. They aren't just beats; they're an instrumental (no pun intended) part of the cohesion of the band, and I think we can all agree that Sabbath would be just another band without Bill. Indeed, they were for a majority of the late 80's and into the 90's. Tony's the master of riffs, I give you that, but his riffs are just part of that core Sabbath sound. Iron Man is a badass song, but it's not as badass without Bill taking up the best seat in the house.

Bill Ward has always been, and will always be, one of the best drummers of all time. His eclectic style of play trumps the mastery of Neil Pert and the simplicity of Jon Bonham. His style is best when combined with the brilliance of Tony Iommi's riffs, and those two elements have always sounded best with Ozzy and Geezer to boot. It's hard to not like Ozzy, Geezer and Tony getting back together, but for die-hard fans it's a noticeable difference if Bill isn't there. I don't think the music is as strong without him.

I agree!!! When Sabbath first got into the game there was less regiment and more feel/emotion. Bands could stretch their wings and experiment without too much criticism. From the stories told it seems as though Bill was always pushing the boundaries of what the band was capable of and you can hear that in how he evolved as a percussionist. Bill comes from a different time when drummers weren't there to "just keep time". Strangely enough Bill has even stated that Ozzy doesn't not sing "in time". I haven't analyzed that too much yet but that is an interesting idea. I would guess that Tony must of been the time keeper (along with Geezer in some instances). This is a similar dynamic to what The Who were like in the same time period.

The only riff that I'm aware of that Geezer came up with was the intro to Symptoms of the Universe (Black Sabbath Story Vol.2). I would assume he wrote the main riff for N.I.B. too but not sure. The bass playing on Vol.4 and Technical Ecstasy is low key so I would imagine he wrote lyrics only for those two but everything else I suppose is possible that he introduced the main riff (after all - he did start out as a rhythm guitarist).

[Zee]

Slightly strong my friend, but I agree that trying to separate Bill in that list was a slightly low blow. I've been impressed with the honest discussion over here and I think Joe Siegler will shut down any antagonistic stuff pretty quickly. I honestly am not sure why there are discussions about who is more important in the band. Aren't they all part of the legacy? Is Gilmour or Waters more important than Mason or Wright? What about Gabriel, Collins, Banks, Hackett, Rutherford, Philips?

It'd be nice to keep stuff pleasant here. I'm not looking for censorship, just a little thought for people's feelings on touchy subjects

If anyone feels different then I apologise and will shut up

Hey, hey, I still left Bill 4th!

[sterling#sound]

Timekeeping is essential for the feel of the whole band. The way I see it:

Ozzy: ahead of the beat
Tony: lagging behind the beat (the musical leader)
Bill: locked with Tony, but with a swing feel
Geezer: in time


Other bands with strong guitarists/writers have a similar approach. Where the guitarist sets the pace and the drummer locks in (Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who to name a few)

[WallOfSleep]

Slightly strong my friend, but I agree that trying to separate Bill in that list was a slightly low blow. I've been impressed with the honest discussion over here and I think Joe Siegler will shut down any antagonistic stuff pretty quickly. I honestly am not sure why there are discussions about who is more important in the band. Aren't they all part of the legacy? Is Gilmour or Waters more important than Mason or Wright? What about Gabriel, Collins, Banks, Hackett, Rutherford, Philips?

It'd be nice to keep stuff pleasant here. I'm not looking for censorship, just a little thought for people's feelings on touchy subjects

If anyone feels different then I apologise and will shut up

I agree with you Mike. It was hard for me to come up with my list because you can honestly say that each member is vital in one way or another. I just want to state also that I'm only expressing my personal opinions here. I'm not meaning to imply that anyone else's opinion is wrong (how can something so subjective be right or wrong anyway?). When Zee listed Bill as dead last in importance, with several blank spaces between his name and the rest of the band, I could only assume that he must hate something about Bill.

Around 60 actually.

He wrote the lyrics and bass parts to 60 songs. Ozzy wrote the vocal melodies, Bill wrote the drum parts and Tony wrote the guitar riffs to those same songs. Unless, of course you're talking about Geezer's solo work, but even then, those were collaborations with Pedro Howze so...

Strangely enough Bill has even stated that Ozzy doesn't not sing "in time".

Bill also stated that, at least on the song Black Sabbath, he was playing drums to Ozzy's vocals - not to Tony's riffs.

One thing I admire about Ozzy is that he could sing over anything they put in front of him (at least before he became a complete addict). He did not require specific chord changes, or structure like most lead singers do. Perhaps it's because he didn't know any different - having essentially started his career with Sabbath - I don't know, but it made for some cool songs IMO.

On a total tangent here, the collaboration I'd most like to hear (based only on their solo work) would be one between Geezer and Bill. Bill's solo stuff is wildly eclectic yet probably the strongest musically. Geezer's stuff is particularly brutal. Put those two things together and you'll have something!

[Tha Beast]

Also Acrobat, as per Tony in his book.

there's two for sure. You have to assume he came up with tunes like N.I.B., Hand Of Doom, Junior's Eye's...to name a few. One's thing for sure...no one swings like he and Bill.

[EDTRADER]

The Four Horsemen on NWA/WCW was
Ric Flair
Arn Anderson
Tully Blanchard
Ole Anderson.
Ole left and with Barry Windham or whoever in there it was still the Four Horsemen. Any time Ric and Arn where together everyone said it was the Horsemen.
So If Iommi - Butler - Osbourne are together in a band, it will be Black Sabbath. So if Bill is on board or not it will be a Black Sabbath album.

[celt]

Ha ha ha...that is a great analogy! I remember the Four Horseman thing on NWA/WCW. I think by the end that there were even a few others who took their turn as part of the Four. Tully Blanchard was a bad choice for this group. You can't be one of the Four Horseman and have a manager named "Babydoll".

The Four Horsemen on NWA/WCW was
Ric Flair
Arn Anderson
Tully Blanchard
Ole Anderson.
Ole left and with Barry Windham or whoever in there it was still the Four Horsemen. Any time Ric and Arn where together everyone said it was the Horsemen.
So If Iommi - Butler - Osbourne are together in a band, it will be Black Sabbath. So if Bill is on board or not it will be a Black Sabbath album.

[WallOfSleep]

The Four Horsemen on NWA/WCW was
Ric Flair
Arn Anderson
Tully Blanchard
Ole Anderson.
Ole left and with Barry Windham or whoever in there it was still the Four Horsemen. Any time Ric and Arn where together everyone said it was the Horsemen.
So If Iommi - Butler - Osbourne are together in a band, it will be Black Sabbath. So if Bill is on board or not it will be a Black Sabbath album.

The question of whether or not the band "is Black Sabbath" is twofold:
1. Officially? That's easy - if it says "Black Sabbath" on the album cover or on the concert billing then, yes, it is officially "Black Sabbath" (no matter who's in the band!)
2. In the opinion of the fans? Each individual fan makes this choice for themselves.

It's fairly obvious at this point that the album and the concert billings will say "Black Sabbath" - so officially it IS Black Sabbath.

Is it Black Sabbath in the fans eyes? That's a whole other story. One fan pronouncing "it is Black Sabbath", just because that's their opinion doesn't mean anything - other than that.
Essentially, all you're saying is "this is my opinion and - because it's MY opinion - it's right!"

[Charger]

Is it Black Sabbath in the fans eyes? That's a whole other story. One fan pronouncing "it is Black Sabbath", just because that's their opinion doesn't mean anything - other than that.
Essentially, all you're saying is "this is my opinion and - because it's MY opinion - it's right!"

Well the truth is it doesn't matter what some fans think. If it says Black Sabbath on the album cover the band is called Black Sabbath...that's the end of it...regardless who's in the band, or who's not.

Honestly I'm sick and tired of all of this Bill crap already. He opted out. That was his choice. The rest have to move on and they have and they will. If Bill wants to come back, fine, if not fine...
What should the band have done? "Okay so Bill's out, we can't do an album anymore...let's scrap it" Would that have been a better choice? I doubt that.

[mds]

The question of whether or not the band "is Black Sabbath" is twofold:
1. Officially? That's easy - if it says "Black Sabbath" on the album cover or on the concert billing then, yes, it is officially "Black Sabbath" (no matter who's in the band!)
2. In the opinion of the fans? Each individual fan makes this choice for themselves.

It's fairly obvious at this point that the album and the concert billings will say "Black Sabbath" - so officially it IS Black Sabbath.

Is it Black Sabbath in the fans eyes? That's a whole other story. One fan pronouncing "it is Black Sabbath", just because that's their opinion doesn't mean anything - other than that.
Essentially, all you're saying is "this is my opinion and - because it's MY opinion - it's right!"

Actually Ozzy is the one who proclaimed it is Black Sabbath only if all four original members are involved. His words, his declaration. It doesn't get any more clear cut than that.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

Well the truth is it doesn't matter what some fans think. If it says Black Sabbath on the album cover the band is called Black Sabbath...that's the end of it...regardless who's in the band, or who's not.

Honestly I'm sick and tired of all of this Bill crap already. He opted out. That was his choice. The rest have to move on and they have and they will. If Bill wants to come back, fine, if not fine...
What should the band have done? "Okay so Bill's out, we can't do an album anymore...let's scrap it" Would that have been a better choice? I doubt that.

Simply call it what it is now: Butler/Iommi/Osbourne.

[EDTRADER]

Did you hear that Eric Singer and Glenn Hughes are gonna form a band. Gonna call it Seventh Sabbath.
(just time for some humor here)

[CrystalWorld]

[QUOTE=mds;295956]Actually Ozzy is the one who proclaimed it is Black Sabbath only if all four original members are involved. His words, his declaration. It doesn't get any more clear cut than that.[COLOR="silver"]

^This

Can't really argue with that, he said it, and now he's shown that the only important part of that statement is his name and perhaps Tony and Geezers. Maybe he'll overdub the old reunion video where he said it for future releases, and re-record Clufetos over Bill Ward.