Quarterstepper Guitar

[Billy Underdog]

Ronni Le Tekrø had a prototype made by Bernie Hamburger, which enables you to use quarternotes, as used in eastern and African music.


(sadly there's no bigger pic of it)

Description:
This is a very unique "Le Tekro, 1/4 Stepper Guitar" known as "Quarter Stepper". An American craftsman named Bernie Hamburger made this guitar, and this is a proto-type. It had a Kramer logo as you can see in the picture to your left, but it is not a Kramer. This guitar has twice as many frets as normal guitars do below the 15th fret. Normal guitars have frets like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5..., but this Quarter Stepper has frets of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5... Black frets are the extra frets added to this guitar, and if you play those frets, you get a quartertone instead of bending a string like you do on the normal guitars. If you play white frets, you get the same tone as normal guitars. Ronni used this guitar in the solo to Wisdom on Intuition, on Rypdal & Tekro II, and several others. He's wanted some guitar manufacturers to rebuild this guitar, but he has no luck yet...

Too bad this proto-type is the only one that exists. I would die to have one, been interested in exploring the 24-note system for a long time.

Anyone knows if there's any keyboards made with the same principle?

[Josef_K]

Wow that's cool. It would take some practice to use it without sounding weird though I guess. I don't think there are any keyboards made with extra keys between the notes, but there is no doubt that tweaking some settings on some keyboards with pitch-bend wheels and/or transpose/tuning functions would allow quick access to a similar effect. For example, detuning oscillators in synths is an over-used way of getting a "fatter" tone. That is almost the same thing, only that you have two sound sources instead of one, but they are often both playing quarter notes. I don't think any of my keyboards can be tweaked to have instant on/off switches for this feature but I'm sure some advanced digital "all-in-one" keyboards could do that.

Then again, I wouldn't be too surprised if some fanatic person built a keyboard with actual keys for the quarter notes. If you do it using an analog oscillator it shouldn't be that hard, you just adjust the pitch difference between the keys (i.e. you adjust the difference in voltage sent to the oscillator when pressing down different keys) to be half of what they should be and there you go ^^ every second key will now play a quarter note. I wouldn't try it myself though as I lack the deeper knowledge to make it work, but it's not that hard :D Man... this makes me wanna try to build one haha, I really should study some physics...

EDIT: Actually I just realized it could work for any analog synthesizer without modifying it, though it won't be so practical. If you make the filter self-resonate each time you press a key you can let the keys only affect the filter half as much as they should to generate the usual notes for each key. Though the filter is unstable as an oscillator already as it is, so the chance that you will get clean quarter notes on more than a few keys is quite low :D Sorry if you don't understand what I'm talking about, I'm trying not to go too much in-depth and bore everyone reading this, but it's quite hard haha

[Billy Underdog]

Then again, I wouldn't be too surprised if some fanatic person built a keyboard with actual keys for the quarter notes. Man... this makes me wanna try to build one haha

Been thinking about trying it myself, as in with actual 16 keys pr. octave. I remember in an old episode of the series Alf (don't know if you remember/saw it), he mentioned that at his home-planet they had keyboard-instruments with red keys in addition to the black and whites. Maybe that would've been the way to go.

Sorry if you don't understand what I'm talking about, I'm trying not to go too much in-depth and bore everyone reading this, but it's quite hard haha

Didn't understand too much of it, but then again i'm neither a synth-wiz or an electronics-expert . But (from what i understood) wouldn't doing that make you loose some notes? Like f.ex if you'd take C and C# and made the quarter between them, wouldn't you loose one of them?

[Josef_K]

It would work much better if you did your own keyboard with red keys or whatever of course. Using the filter self-reonating technique you don't lose any notes, but you screw around with the key system. Since each key is a quarter note step instead of a semi note, if the key that normally is C still is C, then the key that should be C# will be the quarter note between C and C#. D will then be C#, D# will be in between C# and D and so on. The keys will not mean what they usually do, and of course it would take two octaves of keys to play one octave in notes. In a way you lose keys cos the distance between the lowest and highest key on your keyboard measured in notes will be half of what it should be. So it would be preferable to build your own keyboard to avoid major confusion :D The more I think about this, the more I want to try it. It wouldn't cost too much money so maybe I actually will try this some day ^^

[Billy Underdog]

Ofcourse A bit too early in the morning for me to think that far ahead .
Would require a helluva lot of re-thinking from the player though...

[Monster Boy]

Before equal temperament won the race there were many competing tuning systems and odd keyboards to match. Here's a diagram of one, the archicembalo. It split the black keys in two, from what I gather.

[Billy Underdog]

^^^

This seems to be an ancient scale-system based on a whole other frequency-pattern than the 12 note- (or 24) scales we're used to today. Would be interesting to play around with these kind of things too...

[Josef_K]

@Monster Boy that looks really cool, I have no idea what those numbers on all the keys are for though, probably some other frequency-pattern as Billy mentioned? However, it seems like certain tuners can find quarter notes quite easily, and with that I mean it is easy to see when you are exactly in between two notes, not that there are tuners that are made for quarter notes, I doubt that they exist in such a large number if at all :D So writing a song in the key of in-between C and C# is not that far away, I really want to try that!

[Billy Underdog]

So writing a song in the key of in-between C and C# is not that far away, I really want to try that!

Not only that, but imagine all the strange new chords you could make...

[Monster Boy]

So writing a song in the key of in-between C and C# is not that far away, I really want to try that!

Sabbath wrote a lot of songs in between C# and D already, without no stinking quartertone guitars! They just tuned to what sounded about right and away they went.

I think quarter tone music is kind of overhyped by musician types. Most quarter tone stuff sounds like out of tune regular tone stuff to my ears. Loves me some Ravi Shankar though! The sitar can already do all that so buy one of those!

[Billy Underdog]

Most quarter tone stuff sounds like out of tune regular tone stuff to my ears. Loves me some Ravi Shankar though!

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

The reason i'm so fascinated by this is the possibility to find interesting new melody-lines and chords, and incorporating new ideas into western (rock) music.

[Josef_K]

I understand what you mean when you say it's over-hyped, even though I don't think I've even heard of the concept before. In a documentary called "prog rock britannia" some guy (can't remember his name, he was an old guy with a beard who used to play prog-rock in the 70s, there can't be so many eh? :D) said that instead of learning fancy chords maybe one should just don't tune up, just don't sing in tune and you'll reach the notes between the notes. How much more far out can you get? Well... it's not really about that is it? :D

Anyway, just like Billy I am fascinated with the idea of all the new chord structures and scales one could make up. Also I am really looking forward to learn to play a quarter-note keyboard. And no... I'm not gonna buy a sitar :D I might buy a vintage synthesizer though, just to have enough problems in the future so I don't have to worry about what to buy next ^^ Why only play out of tune when you can buy an instrument where more or less every aspect capable of screwing with you is taking that opportunity, simultaneously? No but seriously, music will still (as always) be about feeling, things like what instruments you play and if you are using these weird scales and everything come down to one thing, inspiration. Imo these slightly weird aspects of music tend to inspire musicians to reach new heights and perform beyond their talent. It's of course also a great addition that it's plain fun for the musician to discover these things :D

[Monster Boy]

As with any music theoretical idea, what matters in the end is how it all sounds, not whether the idea seems fascinating conceptually. I believe that there is a limit to what our ears can distinguish, both because of the physical make-up of the ear and because we have been culturally conditioned to hear certain patterns. That's why a lot of what I have heard of microtonal music just don't sound that great to me. Bends and slides are all cool of course, blue notes and such, they add color to music, but I think our ears tend to map intervals to the closest "in tune" note for the most part. In other words, splashes of color in an otherwise equal tempered tuning are great because of the contrast, but when everything is out of whack, it's wacky y'all! In indian music and the blues, the microtonal inflections are great, but at the basis of it all are in tune, equal tempered scales and structures. Anyways, if it inspires you then I'm all for it though!

[Lord Necros]

As with any music theoretical idea, what matters in the end is how it all sounds, not whether the idea seems fascinating conceptually. I believe that there is a limit to what our ears can distinguish, both because of the physical make-up of the ear and because we have been culturally conditioned to hear certain patterns. That's why a lot of what I have heard of microtonal music just don't sound that great to me. Bends and slides are all cool of course, blue notes and such, they add color to music, but I think our ears tend to map intervals to the closest "in tune" note for the most part. In other words, splashes of color in an otherwise equal tempered tuning are great because of the contrast, but when everything is out of whack, it's wacky y'all! In indian music and the blues, the microtonal inflections are great, but at the basis of it all are in tune, equal tempered scales and structures. Anyways, if it inspires you then I'm all for it though!

Just listen to VOIVOD's "Dimension Hatröss"

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

I understand what you mean when you say it's over-hyped, even though I don't think I've even heard of the concept before. In a documentary called "prog rock britannia" some guy (can't remember his name, he was an old guy with a beard who used to play prog-rock in the 70s, there can't be so many eh? :D) said that instead of learning fancy chords maybe one should just don't tune up, just don't sing in tune and you'll reach the notes between the notes. How much more far out can you get? Well... it's not really about that is it? :D

Anyway, just like Billy I am fascinated with the idea of all the new chord structures and scales one could make up. Also I am really looking forward to learn to play a quarter-note keyboard. And no... I'm not gonna buy a sitar :D I might buy a vintage synthesizer though, just to have enough problems in the future so I don't have to worry about what to buy next ^^ Why only play out of tune when you can buy an instrument where more or less every aspect capable of screwing with you is taking that opportunity, simultaneously? No but seriously, music will still (as always) be about feeling, things like what instruments you play and if you are using these weird scales and everything come down to one thing, inspiration. Imo these slightly weird aspects of music tend to inspire musicians to reach new heights and perform beyond their talent. It's of course also a great addition that it's plain fun for the musician to discover these things :D

Just listen to VOIVOD's "Dimension Hatröss"

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------

Not only that, but imagine all the strange new chords you could make...

Just listen to VOIVOD's "Dimension Hatröss"

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------

Sorry bout all the posts I messed up some where.

[Billy Underdog]

As with any music theoretical idea, what matters in the end is how it all sounds, not whether the idea seems fascinating conceptually. I believe that there is a limit to what our ears can distinguish, both because of the physical make-up of the ear and because we have been culturally conditioned to hear certain patterns. That's why a lot of what I have heard of microtonal music just don't sound that great to me. Bends and slides are all cool of course, blue notes and such, they add color to music, but I think our ears tend to map intervals to the closest "in tune" note for the most part. In other words, splashes of color in an otherwise equal tempered tuning are great because of the contrast, but when everything is out of whack, it's wacky y'all! In indian music and the blues, the microtonal inflections are great, but at the basis of it all are in tune, equal tempered scales and structures. Anyways, if it inspires you then I'm all for it though!

A big reason why microtonal music sounds weird to us westerners is because we're just not that used to it, our ears and mind aren't trained to comprehend it. Easterners and Africans have used it for centuries, maybe even thousands of years, and they seem to enjoy it.

So i consider it my goddamn mission to bring quarternotes into the western music, and by god, you shall all enjoy it!!!

[BibleBlack]

This is perhaps the most interesting thread I've come across here so far.
I am offended.
Jokes aside, though, this thing you've mentioned kicks ass.

[Monster Boy]

^^ that sounds pretty cool! The microtonal inflections just sound like out of tune equal temperament to me though, this duet could be played on regular guitars for the most part. Kind of gimmicky in my opinion.

[Billy Underdog]

The microtonal inflections just sound like out of tune equal temperament to me though

The thing about these kind of instruments is that you can play both "in tune" and "out of tune" (the notes between the notes, as Robert Wyatt says).

this duet could be played on regular guitars for the most part.

Yeah, but with a helluva lot of bending to incorporate those quarter-notes.