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WDIV
11-13-2004, 09:20 AM
I've seen rumours that there are demos of Dehumanizer, which has Tony singing. What's the story w/ these??? I'm dying to hear them (if they exist)!

Joe Siegler
11-13-2004, 09:36 AM
There's a bit in Garry-Sharpe Young's book about Sabbath's non Ozzy history that says that there was a point during the Dehumanizer sessions that Dio split, and they re-recorded it with Tony Martin, only to dump that and go with Dio again.

It's been 13 years now since that happened, and I've never even HEARD of that story until last year, so the chances of them turning up are small, I'd wager.

Nightwing
11-13-2004, 02:26 PM
Tony Martin would probably have the info on this.

Prezuiwf
11-13-2004, 03:21 PM
Yeah, Tony did record a version of Dehumanizer but it seems to be a very well-guarded treasure. I've never even heard rumors of a bootleg existing from these sessions. I would LOVE to hear them though. Maybe some day someone will take it upon themselves to release a box set of Sabbath rarities like this and make a fortune.

MskdStnkr
11-13-2004, 03:31 PM
I read the Garry-Sharpe Young book and it was my understanding that there were writing sessions with Tony Martin and he wasn't doing the Dehumanizer material. Some of this material wound up on Cross Puposes.

On the other the other hand there were some recordings with Cozy before his accident.

michka
11-13-2004, 07:17 PM
it seems that Garry-Sharpe Young sometimes writes very silly things... check out his web site ,there's some very interesting things and some nonsense too.

John Furnish
11-13-2004, 07:40 PM
This sounds to me like some serious rumormongering where someone is simply mixing up a bunch of old facts and rumors and throwing them out into the wind.

MurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurTonyMartinmurmurmurm urDehumanizer
murmurmurmuralternaterecordingmurmurmurmurDiosplit murmurmurmur
canyousayletsrewriteRayGillen/GlennHughes/TonyMartineighties
historyoflineupsandrerecordingsmurmurmurmurmurmurm urmurmurmur

I say shut these people up and wire their fucking jaws shut like Vic Rattlehead (MegaDeath's mascot, IM's Eddie is better btw). This sort of thing is highly irritating.

No, I don't believe a word of it.

Destino
11-14-2004, 12:42 AM
Here’s an excerpt from Garry Sharpe-Young’s book ‘Black Sabbath: Never Say Die! 1979 – 1997’ [2003], the source of this current discussion. It should help clear up a few things for those who haven’t read it, or are unfamiliar with the issue (ie. John Furnish).


'Back Where I Belong' was lent weight by a veritable roll call of specifically invited guests, including Queen’s Brian May, Black Sabbath colleagues Neil Murray and Geoff Nicholls and Saxon drummer Nigel Glockler. For good measure, Martin also included a re-work of the Black Sabbath song ‘Jerusalem’.
The singer’s newfound status as a solo artist though, had engendered a number of inquires from other interested parties.
“Yngwie was quite persistent for a time”, Tony Martin insists. “In fact, the barrage of phone calls from his management and his friends really made me quite wary. They were so keen it got a little too weird for me actually, which put me off. It was very difficult to diplomatically tell them that, although I was appreciative of being asked, my solo album was in the works and far too important for me to stop. Being my first solo thing, it was extra special and I really wanted to see it through. There were others too, even some talk of Journey at one point. Just a brief conversation. I didn’t audition for anyone or follow anything up really, because the ‘Back Where I Belong’ album was my priority.”

There would be one telephone call though, that did change his focus. The most unexpected one of all – Black Sabbath. “It was only two months after getting Ronnie in though, that they asked me back. Well, I was stuck and told them so. Look, I said, I’ve got my solo thing going so it’s really difficult. Anyhow, I went to have a meeting with Tony Iommi. There were no problems between us, never have been, it was all very professional. He wanted me back, but when I asked what the problem with Ronnie was, he just clammed up, just made lots of ‘Errrr’ and ‘Ummm’ type noises. The result of it all was that I couldn’t do it because I was so deep in with Polydor at the time.”
It would not be the only hiccup in the reconstituted Mk. 3 line-up. Within a few months Tony Iommi was back on the telephone to Tony Martin yet again. “This was about four months later”, Tony Martin calculates. “Tony told me they just didn’t know where they stood with Ronnie. Apparently, Tony and Geezer had put down all the music and lyrics, but Ronnie wasn’t contributing and no vocals were getting put down. They thought he was being very secretive with his contributions and wouldn’t leave anything in the studio. Basically, they couldn’t finish the songs and he could not see an end to the album the way it was recording.”

At Iommi and Geezer’s request, Tony Martin made his way down to the familiar pastures of Rockfield Studios in Monmouthshire. “I knew Ronnie had been there only recently because when I walked into the studio there was a microphone stand set up at half-mast, about my shoulder hight!”, scoffs Martin. Long-term followers of the band will attest that microphone stands had been the bane of Ronnie James Dio’s life. Many a time, Dio concert audiences have enjoyed the hilarity of seeing Ronnie’s mic set up before a show at an almost gnome like level by a merciless leg-pulling road crew.
“Basically, they wanted me to re-do the vocals for the ‘Dehumanizer’ album”, states Tony matter of factly in a revelation that will no doubt shock many Sabbath and Dio fans. “Well, I’m just a singer so I thought OK, I can do my thing here. I’ve done it before. I did have a few reservations, which I spoke to Albert about but he assured me the situation was different this time. We put down vocals on some of the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and it was sounding good. Obviously, we had to start from scratch on all the vocal melodies and lyrics to redevelop everything. In fact, it was sounding very good. There were a lot of happy, relieved people in the room.”
With both Tony’s solo effort ‘Back Where I Belong’ and ‘Dehumanizer’ in the bag, the decision was made to re-recruit Martin back into the fold. The vocalist was doubly cautious. He knew that Ronnie James Dio, residing in the West Midlands town of Henley on Arden at that time, had no knowledge of this clandestine session and had been told by Iommi and Butler they had needed a short break.
Ronnie indeed was none the wiser. “Y’know, I heard some rumblings about this after the event. Did I know they got someone else in at the time? No. They must have been pretty sneaky.”

Tony Martin felt that he was back on familiar yet dangerous ground. “You know that expression ‘Once bitten, twice shy’? I don’t know how many times I had been bitten by that stage of the game! There were a few more heated discussions, arguments if you will, between myself and Albert. I was very, very wary, but strangely Albert, for a change, was very much on their side this time around. That was very unlike Albert because he usually could see a conspiracy around every corner with Sabbath. My point of view was that I had been fucked over so many times they must be wondering what kind of sucker I am, but Albert said ‘No, this time it’s different. I’ve spoken to them. They desperately need you and it will be different this time. They’re telling the truth – believe me’. Because my manager was so convincing, I was basically convinced too that everything really would be fine this time around. So, I rejoined Black Sabbath and as soon as Polydor found out, they dropped me! That’s the reason ‘Back Where I Belong’ only came out in Germany and Japan.

“What happened after that was that it was decided that ‘Dehumanizer’ should be put out with Ronnie’s vocals. We fucked that stuff off that I had sung on, which was a shame because those tapes sound just great, believe me. There must have been a lot of label pressure, contracts and stuff. Time was a very big issue, I remember. So I stopped work on the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and, because at that stage Ronnie was still out of the picture, we started to get brand new material together, because it was decided it would be much quicker to do it that way ‘round. This is where ‘Cross Purposes’ started. We were actually getting basic ‘Cross Purposes’ songs together in the studio before Ronnie joined back up with them to do the ‘Dehumanizer’ tour of America. You can imagine how everyone was feeling at this time. It was pretty strained between Tony, Geezer and Ronnie.”

[pages 318 – 321; chapter 15. ‘The Dehuman Factor’]

Prezuiwf
11-14-2004, 12:56 AM
Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

WDIV
11-14-2004, 09:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing how Yngwie goes thru vocalists, it probably wasn't such a bad career move to turn that gig down.

michka
11-14-2004, 06:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing how Yngwie goes thru vocalists, it probably wasn't such a bad career move to turn that gig down.

[/ QUOTE ]


i agree!

John Furnish
11-14-2004, 08:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]

“Basically, they wanted me to re-do the vocals for the ‘Dehumanizer’ album”, states Tony matter of factly in a revelation that will no doubt shock many Sabbath and Dio fans. “Well, I’m just a singer so I thought OK, I can do my thing here. I’ve done it before. I did have a few reservations, which I spoke to Albert about but he assured me the situation was different this time. We put down vocals on some of the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and it was sounding good. Obviously, we had to start from scratch on all the vocal melodies and lyrics to redevelop everything. In fact, it was sounding very good. There were a lot of happy, relieved people in the room.”

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected!

E5150
11-14-2004, 10:39 PM
Sabbath Inc. is a very strange machine, indeed. Or at least it was back then. Sounds to me like there was no one willing to really take control of that situation. Martin was just being flat-out used as a "Plan B" so that the Dehumanizer material could be released if Ronnie bugged out.

Martin did make some very bad choices, I agree.

DarthKur
11-15-2004, 03:26 AM
I'd about kill to get my hands on a copy of that demo material. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
That's some fascinating info from that book quoted above. Is all or any of that accurate I wonder.

racer
11-15-2004, 12:32 PM
In a way it's a shame Dio ever came back, due to his appearance for one album and then disappearance. If Martin's Dehumanizer were released at least there would have been continuity.

MskdStnkr
11-15-2004, 04:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Here’s an excerpt from Garry Sharpe-Young’s book ‘Black Sabbath: Never Say Die! 1979 – 1997’ [2003], the source of this current discussion. It should help clear up a few things for those who haven’t read it, or are unfamiliar with the issue (ie. John Furnish).
[pages 318 – 321; chapter 15. ‘The Dehuman Factor’]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for posting that. That makes things much clearer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm gonna have to look NSD over again.

Eternal Idol
11-15-2004, 09:25 PM
IT ALL STARTED WHEN GEEZER CAME ON STAGE WITH THE BAND IN LATE 90S SHOW TO JAM . I THINK THERE HE GAVE TONY IDEAS ABOUT BRINGING HIM ON DIO BACK IN . TONY SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE BAND THE WAY IT WAS . MARTIN . POWELL .MURRAY HAD A LOT TO OFFER . HOPE THEY RELEASE MARTINS TAPES ON BOOTLEG SOON . THE JAPANESE ARE FAST ON THEM.

Destino
11-16-2004, 12:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for posting that. That makes things much clearer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm gonna have to look NSD over again.

[/ QUOTE ]
No problem. It's a great book. It's my number one resource for Sabbath, next to sabbathlive.com and black-sabbath.com.

As for it's accuracy, DarthKur, 70% of the book is quotes from band members, etc., so it's very much the story as told by Sabbath. Just for the record, here's a list of people who have contributed their knowledge to the book:
Tony Martin, Geoff Nicholls, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Rob Halford, Eric Singer, Glenn Hughes, Neil Murray, Bobby Rondinelli, Dave Spitz, David Donato, Jeff Fenholt, Laurence Cottle, Don Airey, Vinny Appice, Carmine Appice, Jo Burt, Terry Chimes, Bob Daisley, Rudy Sarzo, Malcolm Cope, Ron Keel, Kyle Michaels, Jimi Bell and Carl Sentance. Also, Tony Iommi, Geezer Butler, Ray Gillen and Cozy Powell, although they were interviewed by the author previous to the book (obviously, in Gillen and Powell's case).


Also, Gary Sharpe-Young is a very well-known and respected rock journalist. He knows anything and everything about hard rock/heavy metal, no questions asked.

This book is a must for any Sabbath fan! I'm sure Robert Dwyer and Joe Siegler could back me up on that.

Aerik Von
11-16-2004, 02:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There's a bit in Garry-Sharpe Young's book about Sabbath's non Ozzy history that says that there was a point during the Dehumanizer sessions that Dio split, and they re-recorded it with Tony Martin, only to dump that and go with Dio again.

It's been 13 years now since that happened, and I've never even HEARD of that story until last year, so the chances of them turning up are small, I'd wager.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad eh?

RobLarkin
11-17-2004, 03:57 AM
I would really like to hear Martin sing DEHUMANIZER. Dio had became a growler at the time....

SweetSymptom
11-20-2004, 12:36 AM
I know
just listen to "After All (The Dead" after the intro part

Madman
11-21-2004, 01:33 AM
i dont know if i believe that Ronnie wasnt contributing to the lyrics. Every other source I have read said that Geezer wrote the lyrics to Master of Insanity and Ronnie wrote the rest

MskdStnkr
11-21-2004, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i dont know if i believe that Ronnie wasnt contributing to the lyrics. Every other source I have read said that Geezer wrote the lyrics to Master of Insanity and Ronnie wrote the rest

[/ QUOTE ]

The Never Say Die book talks about Master of Insanity being a song from the Geezer Butler band. The guitar player in Butler's band, Jimi Bell, wrote at least some of it. He actually lives in my neck of the woods. I've seen his flyers for guitar lessons.

Madman
11-22-2004, 12:07 AM
I heard that demo with the unknown singer. I wonder if this is the band Geezer started in about 85? You should try and get some answers from Jimi Bell....maybe pay the 20 bucks per lesson and instead of actually playing just ask him every question in the book, haha.

Wasnt Pedro Howse also in that band?

Also, do you mind me asking where abouts you live? I heard a rumor that Geezer lived in the St. Louis area...so I was wondering if maybe he got a few local chaps to start that band or what.

MskdStnkr
11-23-2004, 07:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You should try and get some answers from Jimi Bell....maybe pay the 20 bucks per lesson and instead of actually playing just ask him every question in the book, haha.

Wasnt Pedro Howse also in that band?

Also, do you mind me asking where abouts you live? I heard a rumor that Geezer lived in the St. Louis area...so I was wondering if maybe he got a few local chaps to start that band or what.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can find out a bit about Jimi Bell here:
Jimi Bell (http://www.jimibell.com/resume.html)

You can take some lessons yourself, but it from your use of the word "chaps" I think it would a bit of a long ride for you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think Pedro came along a little later.

I've read Tony Iommi mentioning that Geezer now lives "a few houses away" from him now. I don't know if Geezer still lives in the St. Louis area.

Madman
11-25-2004, 12:04 PM
ha, thanks for the info...and no it wouldnt be a long ride...I live in Iowa...have all my life...don't know why I pulled out the word "chaps" haha

SweetSymptom
11-27-2004, 08:08 PM
I need to hear these tapes...

Joe Siegler
11-29-2004, 02:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if Geezer still lives in the St. Louis area.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he has houses in LA, St Louis, and England.

Madman
11-29-2004, 08:00 AM
Thats crazy...I wonder why St. Louis?

I take routine trips there...how crazy would that be if one day I ran into Geezer F'n Butler.

Ryan Porter
11-29-2004, 08:37 PM
Apparently, somebody said he lives in Fenton, MO. That is just less than 15-20 minutes away from me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I would love to see him one day. T_T

SweetSymptom
11-30-2004, 07:38 PM
don't draw too much attention if you do find him living there

Destino
11-30-2004, 08:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I heard that demo with the unknown singer.

[/ QUOTE ]
The singer on those demos is actually Carl Sentance, the same guy who's doing the Whole Lotta Metal tour with Tony Martin and Matt Moreton.

666
12-04-2004, 04:21 AM
i hope Sabbath will release this stuff in future, because bootlegers will get it in time IMO (and then i get it too)

Joe Siegler
12-04-2004, 10:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i hope Sabbath will release this stuff in future, because bootlegers will get it in time IMO (and then i get it too)

[/ QUOTE ]

That won't happen. Tony is not fond of this stuff, I seriously doubt unreleased demos will EVER EVER be released.

Icarus
12-04-2004, 12:15 PM
I keep hearing stuff about Iommi not liking releasing unreleased stuff, but, pardon my ignorance, wasn't the 1996 DEP Sessions and the video for Blue Suade Shoes unreleased?

Joe Siegler
12-04-2004, 12:37 PM
Tony wasn't fond of DEP Sessions when it was out as a bootleg under the name 8th Star, either.

As for Blue Suede Shoes, he wasn't fond of that for the longest time, and if you listen to them talk about it, they're still not fond of it. However, legally it's not their recording as I understand it - it was a sound check that was recorded at the time w/o their knowledge.

jestor92
12-18-2004, 12:07 PM
Am I the only one who thinks we have a couple of those Tony Martin tracks already. Listen to Virtual Death it has a similar lyrical and musical style to Dehumanizer. I truly think Virtual Death was written during the Dehumanizer sessions and benched until Cross Purposes.

MskdStnkr
12-18-2004, 04:33 PM
I think you're correct. Here's a bit from a Geezer interview on Joe's site:
[ QUOTE ]
Did you have creative input on the last few Sabbath albums ?

Geezer: I wrote four or five songs on Dehumanizer, which was good because I liked working with Ronnie (Dio - former Rainbow and Sabbath vocalist, reunited with Sabbath for 1992's Dehumanizer album), and the last album Cross Purposes, I probably did about 2, but I wasn't happy with the way it came out at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

OzzyIsDio
08-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Do these Dehumanizer demos with Tony Martin on vocals exist? I would love to hear them if they do, Dehumanizer is a great album, I wonder what it would sound like with Tony Martin on vocals.

SweetSymptom
08-24-2013, 10:29 PM
If they exist they're not out there. I also heard that they basically put Dehumanizer on the shelf for the brief time that Martin returned and began putting together music that became part of Cross Purposes.

Diego3336
08-24-2013, 11:17 PM
Men, I've always heard about these tapes and of course I have the curiosity to listen to, but I'm almost sure that Tony Martin's version is no way better than Dio's. What I like most in this album is the angriness of Dio's singing, and I just can't see Martin as "angry" enough to outperform on this.

And listening to Time Machine on Cross Purposes Live album only add insult to injury as Tony Martin simply butchered the song, he suffered a lot to sing that and it sucked. I can imagine him almost dying to sing "I". I know he was sick in that tour and he always sounded nice in studio, but Ronnie is Ronnie. The only regret I have about this album is that Bobby Rondinelli isn't behind the kit. As much as I like Vinny, Bobby has the perfect "angry" type of play for that album.

OzzyIsDio
08-25-2013, 06:50 AM
If they exist they're not out there. I also heard that they basically put Dehumanizer on the shelf for the brief time that Martin returned and began putting together music that became part of Cross Purposes.

Thank you for that piece of information SweetSymptom, I do recall now Doctor John telling me no such tapes exist, my memory slips sometimes, I just became curious as I'm getting more into the Martin era of Sabbath and wondered what those songs would sound like with Tony Martin behind the mic.


Men, I've always heard about these tapes and of course I have the curiosity to listen to, but I'm almost sure that Tony Martin's version is no way better than Dio's. What I like most in this album is the angriness of Dio's singing, and I just can't see Martin as "angry" enough to outperform on this.

And listening to Time Machine on Cross Purposes Live album only add insult to injury as Tony Martin simply butchered the song, he suffered a lot to sing that and it sucked. I can imagine him almost dying to sing "I". I know he was sick in that tour and he always sounded nice in studio, but Ronnie is Ronnie. The only regret I have about this album is that Bobby Rondinelli isn't behind the kit. As much as I like Vinny, Bobby has the perfect "angry" type of play for that album.

I think it would be great to hear him sing those songs, like when I heard Ray Gillen sing the Eternal Idol songs, I thought they were great and really took a liking to Ray's voice and feeling he gave those songs, I also in some way fell in love with the way he did the Dio songs and Ozzy songs, such passion in his voice.

Diego3336
08-25-2013, 09:21 PM
I think it would be great to hear him sing those songs, like when I heard Ray Gillen sing the Eternal Idol songs, I thought they were great and really took a liking to Ray's voice and feeling he gave those songs, I also in some way fell in love with the way he did the Dio songs and Ozzy songs, such passion in his voice.

I think Ray Gillen is one of the best singers of all time. Better than Ronnie, Gillan, Plant and any other of this league. That guy was a true star, the way he used to sing still amazes me every time I listen to. There's a video on Youtube of a concert in Montreal and he simply set the crowd on fire, even being an unknown replacement vocalist and with that less than stellar lineup. That part of The Shining, when he sing "Bells will take their toll, on your way..." is amazing too, he sings it like a top notch Broadway musical.

Too bad he died way too soon.

A Sabbath Historian
09-01-2013, 10:16 PM
While I will acknowledge that it would be interesting to hear Martin's interpretation of the 'Dehumanizer' album THANKFULLY Tony, Ronnie, and Geezer came to their senses and worked things out...albeit temporarily. :frown: The REAL 'Dehumanizer' is just fine AS IS! It's worth saying that I still think it's the most criminally overlooked Black Sabbath album in the catalog. Interesting comments everybody. :horns:

Now in Darkness
09-01-2013, 11:27 PM
Would love to hear the Martin tapes. There is even a chance that I could learn to like this album with Martin on vocals.

EDTRADER
09-02-2013, 07:59 AM
Martin wouldn't have been able to sing Dehumanizer as we know it now. As good or as fitting as Dio. But when he was working on it melodies and lyrics were changed to fit him. Example: on the Dehumanizer demos with Dio comes a instrumental bit. That Tony Martin turned to Raising Hell on his album later on. Dio's would have been Rainbow In Hell. (A bit of humor in this of course) but it would have been different. Not saying better or worse but just different.

OzzyIsDio
09-02-2013, 08:45 AM
I think Ray Gillen is one of the best singers of all time. Better than Ronnie, Gillan, Plant and any other of this league. That guy was a true star, the way he used to sing still amazes me every time I listen to. There's a video on Youtube of a concert in Montreal and he simply set the crowd on fire, even being an unknown replacement vocalist and with that less than stellar lineup. That part of The Shining, when he sing "Bells will take their toll, on your way..." is amazing too, he sings it like a top notch Broadway musical.

Too bad he died way too soon.

I wouldn't say better than Ronnie, but yes a shame he did die too soon.

I will be listening to the Gillen sessions of Eternal Idol, and the 2nd disc on the 7th Star deluxe edition CD, where he does the Sabbath classics and 7th Star songs, this week on my long drives to work, I was taken aback when I first heard him sing, he just did something to me that not too many singers do nowadays.

A lot of people on here say he had an 80's voice, and while that might be true, when he sang the Sabbath classics, he didn't sound 80's at all, he sounded like someone who was singing those songs with passion and feeling, so much so that when I first heard him, I was like wow, this guy is good.

Sad he is long gone now, I never liked the 80's stuff and that was the era I was growing up in, and to be honest I don't even like the stuff he did with Blue Murder or Badlands. But sing the Sabbath classics well he did, and the 7th Star songs and Eternal Idol songs he was great on.

Spiralarchitectx1
09-02-2013, 10:19 PM
Dehumanizer would suck without anyone but ronnie on it!,

Rather hear halford on it!, would be interesting.

Ted Sallis
09-07-2013, 11:23 AM
Diego3336 wrote: I think Ray Gillen is one of the best singers of all time. Better than Ronnie, Gillan, Plant and any other of this league.

Better than Plant? I can agree with that. But Ronnie and Ian Gillan? No way IMO.

Ted

OzzyIsDio
09-07-2013, 11:44 AM
Diego3336 wrote: I think Ray Gillen is one of the best singers of all time. Better than Ronnie, Gillan, Plant and any other of this league.

Better than Plant? I can agree with that. But Ronnie and Ian Gillan? No way IMO.

Ted

It's an odd Sabbath day for me today, I'm sitting here typing on my computer, drinking coffee from my Black Sabbath mug with the debut album cover on it, wearing my Black Sabbath, Rules Of Hell T-shirt, and listening to Black Sabbath-Eternal Idol, the Ray Gillen sessions, and I come across this post.

It's all a matter of opinion I guess, Ray Gillen to me sounds better and on his Sabbath material, I'd rather listen to him than Robert Plant and possibly even Ian Gillan, whom I think is fantastic on Born Again, but not Ronnie James Dio or Ozzy Osbourne.

sidmaximus
01-12-2014, 02:17 PM
I personally asked Tony Martin about this. He clearly stated that there's no hidden tapes, because the band rubbed it off when RJD came back to finish the job.

Arjen
10-16-2014, 01:59 PM
I personally asked Tony Martin about this. He clearly stated that there's no hidden tapes, because the band rubbed it off when RJD came back to finish the job.

Ofcourse they are out there but the best way to keep people off your back is simply denying it excists.
The only hope I had was that Cozy still was in the band when Tony Martin was recording....why? .... Cuz Tony's girlfriend sold all his tapes to Japanese bootleggers after he died. Some extremely cool cd releases came out of this. I own a few of them. Top class releases. Long I hoped Dehumanizer w. Tony would be one of them. I was wrong, I guess Cozy already was out when Tony was in.....