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Mob_Rules
11-20-2004, 07:21 PM
Just got a copy sent to me after winning it on eBay. I think it is unfortunate that this VHS tape and CD set is not available anymore. Some great stuff here. Iommi sounds great on here and the set list is killer with "The Wizard" and a full "Symptom Of The Universe."

DarthKur
11-20-2004, 07:48 PM
Yes, it certainly is an excellent combo. Damn shame it's been OOP for so long. I fortunately got mine years ago.
I'm also very disappointed with the recent DVD release of this show. Half of the friggen set has been deleted. What a complete waste. I will never purchase that. I've seen a Japanese version on Ebay which features the complete show. That's what I'll be investing in. I need to have this on DVD because video tapes sadly wear out. Mine is in fine shape now but who knows when it will decide to shit the bed on me.

Prezuiwf
11-20-2004, 08:24 PM
What a coincidence, I was just listening to this album today. I hadn't listened to it in a couple of months, and I forgot how Tony Martin's voice was affected by his illness. It's awful that this is the only official Martin live album we have in the Sabbath catalog because he is supposedly worlds better than on this album.

Joe Siegler
11-20-2004, 09:55 PM
I also got my copy of Cross Purposes Live the week it was originally released in 1995.

He was worlds better. Some of the boots from the Tyr and Forbidden tours show what he can do.

Yeah, there's Eternal Idol and Headless Cross as well, but for me, the Tyr/Forbidden tours were best for him live.

WDIV
11-20-2004, 11:34 PM
I came across my copy of the cd for $2 in a used cd store a couple of years back. I was ecstatic to say the least!

Kgb
11-21-2004, 12:20 AM
The full concert was fantastic...with tony martin singing very well playing old classic symptom of the universe,sabbath bloody sabbath and the wizard in his own flair the full concert video is fantastic..

Lawmaker
11-21-2004, 02:44 PM
I hope there's a official dvd-release of it

WDIV
11-21-2004, 03:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I hope there's a official dvd-release of it

[/ QUOTE ]


Hopefully there's an proper dvd-release of the FULL show & not the edited-down version.

Mob_Rules
11-21-2004, 10:13 PM
I'm with you guys on that.

michka
11-22-2004, 02:56 PM
i still enjoy listening to/watching this CD/video.but why aren't neon knights,mob rules and anno mundi on the cd?

Joe Siegler
11-22-2004, 06:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i still enjoy listening to/watching this CD/video.but why aren't neon knights,mob rules and anno mundi on the cd?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a space issue - I don't think they'll physically fit on there.

Eduardo A.
12-02-2004, 07:33 AM
Any news on a proper, official and complete DVD edition of CP Live?

Joe Siegler
12-03-2004, 07:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Any news on a proper, official and complete DVD edition of CP Live?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, none.

666
12-04-2004, 04:28 AM
I got it on pirate DVD - good live, but mob Rules and Mob is bad variant

Leonid
12-07-2004, 01:40 PM
Classic Rock Productions has re-issued this on DVD with the name Black Sabbath - Masters From The Vaults. Unfortunately they omitted about 40% of the show. The reason they did it is unknown. I tried to contact them, they never answer why they didn't put the whole show. They are known for compiling DVDs and throw away bunch of material. So it's not only the case with Black Sabbath. Saxon, Deep Purple, Status Quo etc etc - you name it. All of these re-issues have been castrated. And as a matter of fact Black Sabbath - Masters From The Vaults is now deleted from their catalog and will not be re-issued.

I just purchased a PAL version of this double pack (VHS/CD) on Ebay (sealed). That's right, the VHS cassettes go bad. And I'm going to get rid of this pack very soon. But first I plan on recording this VHS on DVD starting with Anno Mundi all the way to the end. I will try to replace the VHS soundtrack with the CD soundtrack.

--Leonid

OzzyIsDio
01-26-2018, 03:57 PM
Listened to this today, Symptom Of The Universe played in full.

I also have the DVD to this show.

I could’ve gotten the original CD/VHS Double pack on eBay but it was going for a couple hundred bucks.

Charger
01-26-2018, 06:05 PM
I could’ve gotten the original CD/VHS Double pack on eBay but it was going for a couple hundred bucks.

Really? Wow...I've got one...bought it at a second hand store back in the late 90s for something like 5$! One of my most valued possessions I do have to say...even more so now I suppose...

OzzyIsDio
01-26-2018, 06:09 PM
Really? Wow...I've got one...bought it at a second hand store back in the late 90s for something like 5$! One of my most valued possessions I do have to say...even more so now I suppose...
Yes Charger it was brand new, I paid a few bucks for mine, the VHS has more songs than the DVD I think.

Charger
01-27-2018, 05:16 AM
Yes Charger it was brand new, I paid a few bucks for mine, the VHS has more songs than the DVD I think.

Yes it does. It's the whole show minus Children Of The Sea which was left out due to some techincal issues if I recall.

Sabbabbath
01-27-2018, 06:54 AM
To my knowledge, ALL DVD releases of Cross Purposes Live up to now, no matter how 'official' they looked, were bootlegs more or less. They are all sourced from the VHS, and several of them are exactly as complete as the VHS. The best one, AFAIK, is fan-made and not commercially available, but pretty widely circulated among bootleg collectors. There is definitely no point these days to pay much money for the VHS cassette, except for nostalgic reasons.

Charger
01-27-2018, 08:29 AM
There is definitely no point these days to pay much money for the VHS cassette, except for nostalgic reasons.

Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.

OzzyIsDio
01-27-2018, 08:39 AM
Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.
I could’ve gotten one easy back in the day, I remember seeing it for sale at Vintage Vinyl when it came out, but I wasn’t the completist I am now, and I didn’t like Tony Martin back in the day.

I was tempted to buy the one I saw on eBay, but a few hundred I couldn’t spare, but I was able to get the CD and DVD separately.

I do enjoy listening to it.

Sabbabbath
01-27-2018, 10:00 AM
Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.

True. I didn't really consider that because I PERSONALLY find it pointless. :-) Anyway, my main point was that there do exist DVD versions that are as complete as the VHS release, are qualitywise at least as good as the incomplete DVD copies, and don't even cost anything. :-)

Charger
01-27-2018, 10:14 AM
True. I didn't really consider that because I PERSONALLY find it pointless. :-) Anyway, my main point was that there do exist DVD versions that are as complete as the VHS release, are qualitywise at least as good as the incomplete DVD copies, and don't even cost anything. :-)

Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.


I could’ve gotten one easy back in the day, I remember seeing it for sale at Vintage Vinyl when it came out, but I wasn’t the completist I am now, and I didn’t like Tony Martin back in the day.

That is unfortunate.

OzzyIsDio
01-27-2018, 10:44 AM
Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.



That is unfortunate.
It is unfortunate Charger, I still remember walking into Vintage Vinyl and seeing it right there in the Black Sabbath section, wish I would’ve bought it, I could shoot myself at times when I don’t buy things when they’re available, just like the 70’s Sabbath vinyl box set, at least I was able to get the Ten Year War Box Set recently.

Sabbabbath
01-27-2018, 11:01 AM
Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.

As I already said, the best available copy I have seen was not made for money, but freely shared among fans. To my knowledge, and according to Joe S., none of the DVD copies were supported by the band - they are ALL either pirate material (like the incomplete ones I have seen) or fan-made and freely traded (as the complete ones I have seen). I do understand your point about pirate copies of official releases, and I mostly agree with it. But Cross Purposes Live has been out of print for MANY years. Even if you buy one of the VHS copies now, it's not the band or even their record company who gets the money. And that's their own fault: they KNOW it's out of print, like all the other Martin era stuff. They could have re-released those albums any time. I fail to see how buying a used copy of TYR or Forbidden or the Cross Purposes Live VHS from some private person or even a company would benefit the band. Do I overlook anything?

Plus, the Cross Purposes Live VHS is a special case in that it is an obsolete format. You said it yourself: No one would play one anymore anyways. Exactly. Then how to watch it? The only way would be to copy the VHS to DVD - something you need the skills and equipment for. And if you do that, and if that's OK, how does that benefit the band better than getting a free, fan-made VHS-sourced DVD?

As soon as the band puts out a DVD re-issue, which I expect to be much better anyway because it will hopefully be sourced from the master video tapes rather than from the VHS tape, all the VHS>DVD copies should be put in the rubbish bin of course.

To be sure: My point here was not to promote anything, just to answer a question that was asked above, namely whether the DVD releases are more incomplete than the VHS. The answer is: some, but not all.

OzzyIsDio
01-27-2018, 12:14 PM
There’s one on eBay right now, new going for $150, new cd and vhs.

Price came down a bit.

BACK TO EDEN
01-27-2018, 09:08 PM
A couple of things .... a DVD release by the band , does not exist ..... when one does it will be digital vs analog ,,, analog always has something special , no different with this baby here!

VHS could last a lifetime (nothing is textbook , everything is practice) , I've watched mine a thousand times , as good as new .... I have 3 sets ,,,, 2 unopen , they run about 75 to 300 dollars a set (used or new) , the CD VHS doublepack should NOT loose value when a new set comes about .... collectors love this set! (underground following)

OID , if you found a legit new set for 150 , in good shape , that's not bad ..... offer him 100 and see what he says ,, go no higher than 150 (lower serial numbers catch a higher price) ,,,, I will cover half my brother.


God Bless


Edit .... Fantastic concert!!

SweetSymptom
01-28-2018, 04:25 AM
The DVD releases that came out around the end of 2010/early 2011 (if I recall) are as complete as the VHS. If I remember correctly, they were supposedly authorised by (or licensed from) the company that had owned or filmed the footage. So, still at least partly unofficial. I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain it didn't look VHS sourced.

It looks like it was sourced from the master used for the VHS, with little to no restoration or improvement, but it doesn't look like the VHS rips I've seen.

By the way, wasn't 'Immaculate Deception' also played on the night?

Sabbabbath
01-28-2018, 06:17 AM
The DVD releases that came out around the end of 2010/early 2011 (if I recall) are as complete as the VHS. If I remember correctly, they were supposedly authorised by (or licensed from) the company that had owned or filmed the footage. So, still at least partly unofficial. I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain it didn't look VHS sourced.

It looks like it was sourced from the master used for the VHS, with little to no restoration or improvement, but it doesn't look like the VHS rips I've seen.

By the way, wasn't 'Immaculate Deception' also played on the night?


Immaculate Deception wasn't played at that show. Sabbathlive.com mistakenly listed the song after Neon Knights and before The Wizard, but what was played was actually Psychophobia.

If you refer to the Eagle Rock Japan DVD relase, Joe mentioned it here:
https://www.black-sabbath.com/2011/03/cross_purposes_live_dvd/
He wrote that Tony's manager confirmed that the release was "definitely not authorized or sponsored by Tony Iommi / Black Sabbath".

Here's a picture of the cover:
http://s019.radikal.ru/i628/1406/e8/415233033f79.jpg

To my knowledge the original VHS/CD was released by Picture Music International - are they associated with Eagle Rock anyway?

Fellow member Leonid told me he had checked that DVD, and in his opinion it was clearly an upconverted (thus double-encoded) NTSC 720x480 copy of his own NTSC 352x480 VHS-transfer. I know that Leonid carries out really good transfers which sometimes look better than the original due to the use of the right filters etc, which might explain why it looked better than a VHS-transfer for you.

The best version AFAIK is this VHS-transfer:
http://i64.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0614/c2/d1676c6d035c1c9ef311a07d150ca8c2.png

It also has the advantage of not being converted PAL>NTSC (the original release was PAL) which would be an unnecessary loss of quality.

Again, I am not promoting the purchase of bootlegs or pirated material (the best DVD version of this release is available for free anyway). Just discussing the official vs. pirate issue. Since the band hasn't authorized the Eagle release (nor any other DVD release so far), I doubt it is legitimate - but I might be wrong since I don't really know how that licensing stuff works legally?

ronn
01-28-2018, 06:52 AM
The DVD releases that came out around the end of 2010/early 2011 (if I recall) are as complete as the VHS. If I remember correctly, they were supposedly authorised by (or licensed from) the company that had owned or filmed the footage. So, still at least partly unofficial. I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain it didn't look VHS sourced.

It looks like it was sourced from the master used for the VHS, with little to no restoration or improvement, but it doesn't look like the VHS rips I've seen.

By the way, wasn't 'Immaculate Deception' also played on the night?

Love that song! \m/


A couple of things .... a DVD release by the band , does not exist ..... when one does it will be digital vs analog ,,, analog always has something special , no different with this baby here!

VHS could last a lifetime (nothing is textbook , everything is practice) , I've watched mine a thousand times , as good as new .... I have 3 sets ,,,, 2 unopen , they run about 75 to 300 dollars a set (used or new) , the CD VHS doublepack should NOT loose value when a new set comes about .... collectors love this set! (underground following)

OID , if you found a legit new set for 150 , in good shape , that's not bad ..... offer him 100 and see what he says ,, go no higher than 150 (lower serial numbers catch a higher price) ,,,, I will cover half my brother.


God Bless


Edit .... Fantastic concert!!

Good information Doc \m/


Immaculate Deception wasn't played at that show. Sabbathlive.com mistakenly listed the song after Neon Knights and before The Wizard, but what was played was actually Psychophobia.

If you refer to the Eagle Rock Japan DVD relase, Joe mentioned it here:
https://www.black-sabbath.com/2011/03/cross_purposes_live_dvd/
He wrote that Tony's manager confirmed that the release was "definitely not authorized or sponsored by Tony Iommi / Black Sabbath".

Here's a picture of the cover:
http://s019.radikal.ru/i628/1406/e8/415233033f79.jpg

To my knowledge the original VHS/CD was released by Picture Music International - are they associated with Eagle Rock anyway?

Fellow member Leonid told me he had checked that DVD, and in his opinion it was clearly an upconverted (thus double-encoded) NTSC 720x480 copy of his own NTSC 352x480 VHS-transfer. I know that Leonid carries out really good transfers which sometimes look better than the original due to the use of the right filters etc, which might explain why it looked better than a VHS-transfer for you.

The best version AFAIK is this VHS-transfer:
http://i64.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0614/c2/d1676c6d035c1c9ef311a07d150ca8c2.png

It also has the advantage of not being converted PAL>NTSC (the original release was PAL) which would be an unnecessary loss of quality.

Again, I am not promoting the purchase of bootlegs or pirated material (the best DVD version of this release is available for free anyway). I am just discussing the official vs. pirate issue. Since the band hasn't authorized the release, I doubt it is legitimate - but I might be wrong since I don't really know how that licensing stuff works legally?

Good post \m/

OzzyIsDio
01-28-2018, 04:17 PM
A couple of things .... a DVD release by the band , does not exist ..... when one does it will be digital vs analog ,,, analog always has something special , no different with this baby here!

VHS could last a lifetime (nothing is textbook , everything is practice) , I've watched mine a thousand times , as good as new .... I have 3 sets ,,,, 2 unopen , they run about 75 to 300 dollars a set (used or new) , the CD VHS doublepack should NOT loose value when a new set comes about .... collectors love this set! (underground following)

OID , if you found a legit new set for 150 , in good shape , that's not bad ..... offer him 100 and see what he says ,, go no higher than 150 (lower serial numbers catch a higher price) ,,,, I will cover half my brother.


God Bless


Edit .... Fantastic concert!!

Thank you Doc, you’re always the gentleman, but I must refuse your offer, I do not deserve it.


As I already said, the best available copy I have seen was not made for money, but freely shared among fans. To my knowledge, and according to Joe S., none of the DVD copies were supported by the band - they are ALL either pirate material (like the incomplete ones I have seen) or fan-made and freely traded (as the complete ones I have seen). I do understand your point about pirate copies of official releases, and I mostly agree with it. But Cross Purposes Live has been out of print for MANY years. Even if you buy one of the VHS copies now, it's not the band or even their record company who gets the money. And that's their own fault: they KNOW it's out of print, like all the other Martin era stuff. They could have re-released those albums any time. I fail to see how buying a used copy of TYR or Forbidden or the Cross Purposes Live VHS from some private person or even a company would benefit the band. Do I overlook anything?

Plus, the Cross Purposes Live VHS is a special case in that it is an obsolete format. You said it yourself: No one would play one anymore anyways. Exactly. Then how to watch it? The only way would be to copy the VHS to DVD - something you need the skills and equipment for. And if you do that, and if that's OK, how does that benefit the band better than getting a free, fan-made VHS-sourced DVD?

As soon as the band puts out a DVD re-issue, which I expect to be much better anyway because it will hopefully be sourced from the master video tapes rather than from the VHS tape, all the VHS>DVD copies should be put in the rubbish bin of course.

To be sure: My point here was not to promote anything, just to answer a question that was asked above, namely whether the DVD releases are more incomplete than the VHS. The answer is: some, but not all.
Thank you Linda, you have been a true lady on these forums, always respectful and helpful.

I hope you find it in your heart to forgive me.

Wicked Cricket
01-28-2018, 04:33 PM
My copy is VHS also.

OzzyIsDio
01-28-2018, 04:35 PM
My copy is VHS also.
I still have my VCR, I have plenty of Sabbath stuff in VHS still, I just hope when it breaks down I can still find someone to fix it.

Wicked Cricket
01-28-2018, 04:56 PM
I still have my VCR, I have plenty of Sabbath stuff in VHS still, I just hope when it breaks down I can still find someone to fix it.

hahaha yea I still have mine too!

Charger
01-28-2018, 05:56 PM
hahaha yea I still have mine too!

I've got two! Sadly though neither works all that well anymore....I wouldn't dream of putting anything rare in them though...just in case they might eat the tape..which happens a lot with old vcr's...

BACK TO EDEN
01-28-2018, 07:48 PM
Thank you Doc, you’re always the gentleman, but I must refuse your offer, I do not deserve it.


Thank you Linda, you have been a true lady on these forums, always respectful and helpful.

I hope you find it in your heart to forgive me.

Of course you do , if anyone does it's you my brother ,, if you decide to jump on it , I got your back!

ronn
01-29-2018, 09:27 PM
I still have my VCR, I have plenty of Sabbath stuff in VHS still, I just hope when it breaks down I can still find someone to fix it.

OID you will always be able to get your VCR fixed,
parts are always available,
and plenty of places fix them bud

SweetSymptom
01-29-2018, 10:34 PM
Immaculate Deception wasn't played at that show. Sabbathlive.com mistakenly listed the song after Neon Knights and before The Wizard, but what was played was actually Psychophobia.

If you refer to the Eagle Rock Japan DVD relase, Joe mentioned it here:
https://www.black-sabbath.com/2011/03/cross_purposes_live_dvd/
He wrote that Tony's manager confirmed that the release was "definitely not authorized or sponsored by Tony Iommi / Black Sabbath".

Here's a picture of the cover:
http://s019.radikal.ru/i628/1406/e8/415233033f79.jpg

To my knowledge the original VHS/CD was released by Picture Music International - are they associated with Eagle Rock anyway?

Fellow member Leonid told me he had checked that DVD, and in his opinion it was clearly an upconverted (thus double-encoded) NTSC 720x480 copy of his own NTSC 352x480 VHS-transfer. I know that Leonid carries out really good transfers which sometimes look better than the original due to the use of the right filters etc, which might explain why it looked better than a VHS-transfer for you.

The best version AFAIK is this VHS-transfer:
http://i64.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0614/c2/d1676c6d035c1c9ef311a07d150ca8c2.png

It also has the advantage of not being converted PAL>NTSC (the original release was PAL) which would be an unnecessary loss of quality.

Again, I am not promoting the purchase of bootlegs or pirated material (the best DVD version of this release is available for free anyway). Just discussing the official vs. pirate issue. Since the band hasn't authorized the Eagle release (nor any other DVD release so far), I doubt it is legitimate - but I might be wrong since I don't really know how that licensing stuff works legally?

Good to finally know that 'Immaculate Deception' wasn't played. Only in the sense that I didn't like knowing that the VHS was missing more than it was (with the omission of 'Children of the Sea'.

I was aware it wasn't authorised by Iommi or his management, but what I'd been told at the time (on this board, if I recall) was that the filming company had licensed it out. Which may have been a roundabout way of skirting its potential complete bootleg status. I don't know of Eagle Rock's association with Picture Music International, but I can't see Eagle Rock having anything to do with illegitimate releases. Could be wrong though.
The second cover you've linked to, is that for the fanmade transfer? I only ask because that's the cover of the Icarus Music (among others) edition, which is likely the same transfer as the Ward Records Japanese release. Going back over it, it did look VHS sourced, and featured many artifacts. Perhaps a result of the upconversion.

Maybe it is worthwhile contacting Eagle Rock? I'm not interested in the official/pirate issue either, just perhaps trying to uncover more information.

Incidentally, Picture Music International was a division of EMI (which handled distribution for IRS titles at the time). PMI was later succeeded by Abbey Road International.

OzzyIsDio
01-30-2018, 07:38 AM
OID you will always be able to get your VCR fixed,
parts are always available,
and plenty of places fix them bud
Thanks Ronn, sorry I missed your post till you just mentioned it on the listen!!!!

Sabbabbath
01-31-2018, 02:04 PM
Good to finally know that 'Immaculate Deception' wasn't played. Only in the sense that I didn't like knowing that the VHS was missing more than it was (with the omission of 'Children of the Sea'.

I was aware it wasn't authorised by Iommi or his management, but what I'd been told at the time (on this board, if I recall) was that the filming company had licensed it out. Which may have been a roundabout way of skirting its potential complete bootleg status. I don't know of Eagle Rock's association with Picture Music International, but I can't see Eagle Rock having anything to do with illegitimate releases. Could be wrong though.
The second cover you've linked to, is that for the fanmade transfer? I only ask because that's the cover of the Icarus Music (among others) edition, which is likely the same transfer as the Ward Records Japanese release. Going back over it, it did look VHS sourced, and featured many artifacts. Perhaps a result of the upconversion.

Maybe it is worthwhile contacting Eagle Rock? I'm not interested in the official/pirate issue either, just perhaps trying to uncover more information.

Incidentally, Picture Music International was a division of EMI (which handled distribution for IRS titles at the time). PMI was later succeeded by Abbey Road International.


Thanks for your very valuable comments. I sent you a PM.

Good question you asked about the cover. Looks like what I consider to be the best available version is indeed a fan-made transfer, so the cover that came with it was probably taken from a different release. Thanks for pointing me to my mistake, I will take a note. And correct my post above.

Baconbutty
05-13-2018, 02:11 AM
I'm surprised people are saying these are as valuable as they are. I had a clear out a couple of years ago and tried to sell my vhs copy on ebay with a reserve of 20. There were about a dozen or so people watching it but it eventually ended with no bids. So I still have it but I don't have any way of playing it anymore unfortunately.

OzzyIsDio
05-13-2018, 09:25 AM
I'm surprised people are saying these are as valuable as they are. I had a clear out a couple of years ago and tried to sell my vhs copy on ebay with a reserve of 20. There were about a dozen or so people watching it but it eventually ended with no bids. So I still have it but I don't have any way of playing it anymore unfortunately.

Hi Baconbutty, left you a PM.

OzzyIsDio
06-29-2018, 02:52 PM
I have really grown to like this album and consider it one of Sabbath’s best official live albums.