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gunman42782
10-13-2005, 03:56 AM
I finally got around to buying the Eternal Idol cd and now have all the Tony Martin Sabbath albums. It sounds a little blah compared to the other albums. It does not seem to be as intense. But not bad for his first time at bat. I just need to buy Born Again and 7th Star to own all the Sabbath cds.

El Lobo
10-13-2005, 04:03 AM
It's just that the singing style is not his, but is a copy of Ray's singin style. A damn good job anyway hitting all those high notes.

TJSwoboda
10-17-2005, 05:47 AM
You don't have Born Again yet? You saved one of the best for last... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--T.J.

Petoria000
10-17-2005, 02:02 PM
Yes Born Again is one of the best post-Ozzy albums.

LaughingMan
10-18-2005, 07:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You don't have Born Again yet? You saved one of the best for last... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--T.J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Highly debatable! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LaughingMan
10-18-2005, 07:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Born Again is one of the best post-Ozzy albums.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be boring if we were all the same wouldn't it? I think with the possible exception of Forbidden gunman's just about left the worst two til last!

Most of the lyrics on Born Again are embarrassingly bad. Some of the music is great, but the production is poor as well. Funny that Gillan was absolutely great live at the time. Would love to hear Born Again re-recorded.

The Eternal Idol is possibly my fave Sabbath album since Sabotage so there you go! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ThW
10-19-2005, 03:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Born Again is one of the best post-Ozzy albums.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be boring if we were all the same wouldn't it? I think with the possible exception of Forbidden gunman's just about left the worst two til last!

Most of the lyrics on Born Again are embarrassingly bad. Some of the music is great, but the production is poor as well. Funny that Gillan was absolutely great live at the time. Would love to hear Born Again re-recorded.

The Eternal Idol is possibly my fave Sabbath album since Sabotage so there you go! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


At least we all agree on one thing here - the best years were 1970-1978

LaughingMan
10-19-2005, 10:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Born Again is one of the best post-Ozzy albums.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be boring if we were all the same wouldn't it? I think with the possible exception of Forbidden gunman's just about left the worst two til last!

Most of the lyrics on Born Again are embarrassingly bad. Some of the music is great, but the production is poor as well. Funny that Gillan was absolutely great live at the time. Would love to hear Born Again re-recorded.

The Eternal Idol is possibly my fave Sabbath album since Sabotage so there you go! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


At least we all agree on one thing here - the best years were 1970-1978

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. The best years were 1970-1975 ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ThW
10-19-2005, 10:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Born Again is one of the best post-Ozzy albums.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be boring if we were all the same wouldn't it? I think with the possible exception of Forbidden gunman's just about left the worst two til last!

Most of the lyrics on Born Again are embarrassingly bad. Some of the music is great, but the production is poor as well. Funny that Gillan was absolutely great live at the time. Would love to hear Born Again re-recorded.

The Eternal Idol is possibly my fave Sabbath album since Sabotage so there you go! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


At least we all agree on one thing here - the best years were 1970-1978

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. The best years were 1970-1975 ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was going to write from the start, but decided to go with the full period.

Icarus
10-20-2005, 05:28 PM
Ha, Never Say Die and Born Again are the best Sabbath albums, and Headless Cross is the worst. Pure and simple.

El Lobo
10-21-2005, 05:51 AM
Ha, headless cross is the BEST sabbath album. Born Again and Seventh star are the worst. Pure and simple.

Rover
10-21-2005, 08:26 AM
Just wait till I post something like this also! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Icarus
10-21-2005, 11:47 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I knew you'd say that Lobo

Petoria000
10-21-2005, 01:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Born Again and Seventh star are the worst. Pure and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pssssssssssht

Yeah right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

ledsabbath
10-22-2005, 06:00 PM
god, i really need to get into post-ozzy stuff, shame on me

Deathrider
10-30-2005, 05:10 AM
I own them all too. I bought them on amazon at a very cheap price (less than 5 dollars each one). It's really a shame for this great music and this amazing voice Tony has!! Each album is different, Iommi succeded in not repeating himself, and TM works to me his amazing, one of the best singers I've ever heard!

Ray Rules
10-31-2005, 10:50 AM
Lobo, are you man, dog? Born Again rOx ( at least, in Brazil, we are crazy by that album ).. and Seventh Star, well, Glenn is in a bad shape, and Ray nail singing that shit out.

For me, the worst album is Forbidden.. BUT I didn't listen to it very well

Joe Siegler
10-31-2005, 11:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
For me, the worst album is Forbidden.. BUT I didn't listen to it very well

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.black-sabbath.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=25545

aijommi
11-01-2005, 01:54 PM
Joe, where does the old threads go?

Ray Rules
11-01-2005, 05:31 PM
My shot is: Oblivion..

Raven Rider
11-02-2005, 06:15 AM
I got The Eternal Idol and Cross Purposes not long ago,
and i only need Tyr and Forbidden until i have them all.
I have heard all songs on those albums, i borrowed them, and now i want them both.
I wanted to buy them from my friend, but he say 'no'.
He is a real Black Sabbath fan, me to, i will never sell my Sabbath albums.

Joe Siegler
11-02-2005, 10:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I got The Eternal Idol and Cross Purposes not long ago,
and i only need Tyr and Forbidden until i have them all.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005Y7PS/73407921

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001IVN2/73407921

zeppody
11-02-2005, 12:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I finally got around to buying the Eternal Idol cd and now have all the Tony Martin Sabbath albums. It sounds a little blah compared to the other albums. It does not seem to be as intense. But not bad for his first time at bat. I just need to buy Born Again and 7th Star to own all the Sabbath cds.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thats the only TM album i have.

I was tempted by Cross Purposes and it's live version because of Geezer Butler being in the band again.

Deathrider
11-02-2005, 01:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]

http://www.black-sabbath.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=25545

[/ QUOTE ]

I read your post about Forbidden before I joined the board and I gave another chance to this album that I found bad. Another listen to it made me change my mind, there are good riffs and good vocals, I don't think the album is bad anymore but still I prefer all the other albums of the Martin era to this one.

Joe Siegler
11-02-2005, 02:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the album is bad anymore but still I prefer all the other albums of the Martin era to this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never claimed it was the BEST album. Just better than it's reputation is.

Deathrider
11-02-2005, 02:32 PM
And in my opinion you are right! Now I think there is no "bad" album by Black Sabbath.
I've got all the albums from the Martin era and these are the albums I listen to the most. Can't get sick of TM's voice!

bruce190
11-02-2005, 06:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ha, Never Say Die and Born Again are the best Sabbath albums, and Headless Cross is the worst. Pure and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Headless Cross the worst!? Are you nuts!!? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif Headless Cross is one of the best Black Sabbath albums around and Born Again is an embarrassment. Sure, Born Again has its ups, but way too many downs. Never Say Die is a good album though, I agree. I really enjoy the Ozzy-era albums.

aijommi
11-08-2005, 02:30 PM
I don't see anything special in Headless Cross, all the songs sound the same, with that horrible '80 drum sound...

EvilCheese
11-08-2005, 04:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything special in Headless Cross, all the songs sound the same, with that horrible '80 drum sound...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Headless Cross is beyond dated, not to mention the lyrics are... horrible /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

There's some good stuff on HC, but it's tainted by the production and lyrics, in my opinion.

Petoria000
11-08-2005, 04:52 PM
That 80s drum sound grew on me. I think the intro to Headless Cross would sound so bland without it.

EvilCheese
11-08-2005, 04:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That 80s drum sound grew on me. I think the intro to Headless Cross would sound so bland without it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the drumming is just bland in general - sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Joe Siegler
11-08-2005, 05:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything special in Headless Cross, all the songs sound the same, with that horrible '80 drum sound...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Headless Cross is beyond dated, not to mention the lyrics are... horrible /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

There's some good stuff on HC, but it's tainted by the production and lyrics, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's all this anti Headless Cross sentiment coming from? I think it's a great album for it's time. Is it their best?

No. But you guys are making it out to be their worst.

Nightwing is one of the all time Sab classics, IMO. The title track is awesome, and When Death Calls is killer, too.

In fact, in protest, I'm putting on Headless Cross right now, as I wasn't listening to anything when I started reading thsi thread! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

EvilCheese
11-08-2005, 06:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Where's all this anti Headless Cross sentiment coming from? I think it's a great album for it's time. Is it their best?

No. But you guys are making it out to be their worst.

Nightwing is one of the all time Sab classics, IMO. The title track is awesome, and When Death Calls is killer, too.

In fact, in protest, I'm putting on Headless Cross right now, as I wasn't listening to anything when I started reading thsi thread! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's their worst, but it's definitely lost favor with me over the years, but again, that's not to say it's bad.

My problem with it is: one the production is incredibly dated. Now, I understand this album was released in the 80's (the end of it, anyways) but the production still leaves quite a bit to be desired. While the title track and "When Death Calls" are great (the latter especially) - they're seriously marred by juvenile lyrics. If the goal was to scare second graders, then Tony Martin succeeded, but otherwise the lyrics are, in my opinion, some of the worst in Sabbath's career.

Granted, lyrics aren't the only mark of quality for a song - "Nightwing" is instrumentally brilliant. Tony (Iommi) especially shines on this album. And I even like the keyboard flourishes here and there from Geoff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and I do think the album has one of Tony Martin's best vocal performances with the band.

I was just listening to Forbidden /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Prezuiwf
11-08-2005, 06:05 PM
Obviously it sounds dated, but that is in no way a bad thing. I love Headless Cross not only for the music but because it had an atmosphere not seen on any other Sabbath release. And I am in the minority that actually thinks the lyrics are OK!

EvilCheese
11-08-2005, 06:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously it sounds dated, but that is in no way a bad thing. I love Headless Cross not only for the music but because it had an atmosphere not seen on any other Sabbath release. And I am in the minority that actually thinks the lyrics are OK!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, maybe dated wasn't the best word for it, although it does have 80's written all over it (I assume a large part of the atmosphere you refer to is the various keyboard flourishes?).

Sorry, but I think Tony Martin really dropped the ball on the lyrics. I think he said in an interview he was trying to use "power words", or something like that, but in the end it really just sounds corny.

Prezuiwf
11-08-2005, 06:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I think Tony Martin really dropped the ball on the lyrics. I think he said in an interview he was trying to use "power words", or something like that, but in the end it really just sounds corny.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I've actually written multiple papers on Sabbath's lyrics and Martin has said he overemphasized the Satan thing with "power words" because he was used to writing love songs. I agree that they are certainly not Sabbath's greatest lyrics, but I've heard a lot cornier than this. They are dark and even though they can be a little overdone, I usually don't even listen to them much when I'm listening to this album.

I'd say a good chunk of the lyrics on Forbidden (save for some extremely well-written songs) are worse than the ones on Headless Cross.

Icarus
11-08-2005, 07:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That 80s drum sound grew on me. I think the intro to Headless Cross would sound so bland without it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because that "drum intro" just gets my motor running, so much fire... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

LaughingMan
11-09-2005, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything special in Headless Cross, all the songs sound the same, with that horrible '80 drum sound...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Headless Cross is beyond dated, not to mention the lyrics are... horrible /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

There's some good stuff on HC, but it's tainted by the production and lyrics, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd rather have the lyrics to Back Street Kids? Rock n Roll Doctor? Dirty Women? Never Say Die? Trashed? Zero The Hero? Country Girl? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

aijommi
11-09-2005, 10:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything special in Headless Cross, all the songs sound the same, with that horrible '80 drum sound...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Headless Cross is beyond dated, not to mention the lyrics are... horrible /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

There's some good stuff on HC, but it's tainted by the production and lyrics, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd rather have the lyrics to Back Street Kids? Rock n Roll Doctor? Dirty Women? Never Say Die? Trashed? Zero The Hero? Country Girl? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The lyrivs on BS Kids are awesome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I reaaly don't listen to lyrics that much, so it doesn't affect my opinion about HC.

EvilCheese
11-09-2005, 11:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]

You'd rather have the lyrics to Back Street Kids? Rock n Roll Doctor? Dirty Women? Never Say Die? Trashed? Zero The Hero? Country Girl? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not really fair. You seem to make the assumption I sad those lyrics in question were either good or better then Headless Cross's - and I didn't say that.

With that in mind, at least those lyrics don't talk about fire, devils, spirits, death, witches, etc. every five seconds. All of those, save "Dirty Women" (what do you have against it?) are equally ridiculous lyrics, but you had to pull songs from several albums. Headless Cross has a disproportionate concentration.

Prezuiwf
11-09-2005, 05:29 PM
You don't like the lyrics of "Trashed?" That's classic Gillan!!

Adam
11-10-2005, 01:28 AM
Why so many people dislike those lyrics?

LaughingMan
11-10-2005, 05:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You'd rather have the lyrics to Back Street Kids? Rock n Roll Doctor? Dirty Women? Never Say Die? Trashed? Zero The Hero? Country Girl? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not really fair. You seem to make the assumption I sad those lyrics in question were either good or better then Headless Cross's - and I didn't say that.

With that in mind, at least those lyrics don't talk about fire, devils, spirits, death, witches, etc. every five seconds. All of those, save "Dirty Women" (what do you have against it?) are equally ridiculous lyrics, but you had to pull songs from several albums. Headless Cross has a disproportionate concentration.

[/ QUOTE ]

A matter of opinion not fact. My opinion is that there's nothing wrong with the lyrics on Headless Cross and virtually the whole Technical Ecstasy album has crap lyrics. Juat what do you think songs like Black Sabbath are about? I've no problem with fantasy lyrics. I'm mostly listening to Tony Iommi anyway. I do have a problem with almost all the lyrics on Technical Ecstasy coming as it did after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. Basically they let Ozzy get a look in! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LaughingMan
11-10-2005, 05:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You don't like the lyrics of "Trashed?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't. A damn site sillier and more childish than Headless Cross if you ask me. I'm with Bill Ward on the Born Again lyrics.

David86
11-10-2005, 01:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't like the lyrics of "Trashed?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't. A damn site sillier and more childish than Headless Cross if you ask me. I'm with Bill Ward on the Born Again lyrics.

[/ QUOTE ]

What did he say about them?

LaughingMan
11-11-2005, 04:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't like the lyrics of "Trashed?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't. A damn site sillier and more childish than Headless Cross if you ask me. I'm with Bill Ward on the Born Again lyrics.

[/ QUOTE ]

What did he say about them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he said that when he left the band after Born Again it was partly because he was so strung out with drugs etc. his parents dying and the rest of it - and partly because he couldn't go along with doing songs about disturbing priests and driving your car very fast and crashing it!

Joe Siegler
11-11-2005, 11:21 AM
That's not why he left after Born Again at all.

Was the fact that he was still having problems with sobreity, and he couldn't deal with Ozzy not being there.

Prezuiwf
11-11-2005, 01:38 PM
I'd say it was mostly a matter of Ozzy not being there, to tell the truth. He REALLY felt guilty doing Sabbath without Ozzy.

LaughingMan
11-15-2005, 11:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
That's not why he left after Born Again at all.

(It) was the fact that he was still having problems with sobreity, and he couldn't deal with Ozzy not being there.

[/ QUOTE ]

And "I also at the time felt really uncomfortable with doing songs about disturbing priests and driving your car very fast and crashing it!"

I have that radio interview on tape. It was sent out to members of the Pete Sarfas run Black Sabbath Appreciation Society about the time Ward One was released and I still have it and just reconfirmed it by playing it again.

Petoria000
11-15-2005, 04:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's not why he left after Born Again at all.

(It) was the fact that he was still having problems with sobreity, and he couldn't deal with Ozzy not being there.

[/ QUOTE ]

And "I also at the time felt really uncomfortable with doing songs about disturbing priests and driving your car very fast and crashing it!"

I have that radio interview on tape. It was sent out to members of the Pete Sarfas run Black Sabbath Appreciation Society about the time Ward One was released and I still have it and just reconfirmed it by playing it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm sure that didnt help the situation but I dont think it was one of his primary reasons for leaving.

LaughingMan
11-16-2005, 04:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's not why he left after Born Again at all.

(It) was the fact that he was still having problems with sobreity, and he couldn't deal with Ozzy not being there.

[/ QUOTE ]

And "I also at the time felt really uncomfortable with doing songs about disturbing priests and driving your car very fast and crashing it!"

I have that radio interview on tape. It was sent out to members of the Pete Sarfas run Black Sabbath Appreciation Society about the time Ward One was released and I still have it and just reconfirmed it by playing it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm sure that didnt help the situation but I dont think it was one of his primary reasons for leaving.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I'm telling you is what is on the tape! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brickwall.gif

Joe Siegler
11-17-2005, 10:56 PM
I don't dispute what's on the tape. But what you typed didn't give a clear indication that is why. Unless he came out and said "I left because of..." then it's your own interpretation of what you're hearing. Unless there's something on there you're not typing in.

LaughingMan
11-18-2005, 08:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't dispute what's on the tape. But what you typed didn't give a clear indication that is why. Unless he came out and said "I left because of..." then it's your own interpretation of what you're hearing. Unless there's something on there you're not typing in.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a 45 minute tape! He talks a lot about a lot of things, and about Born Again he talks for quite a while about his folks dying, problems with trying to keep sober, his guilt over Ozzy not being there, his guilt over his own part in Ozzy not being there, even suicidal thoughts etc. and then after a while says something like (I'm at work so can't remember the words exactly right now) "although I got on real well with the guys I just didn't feel comfortable in that situation, and I have to say, much that I like Ian, that I felt real uncomfortable with some of the things we were doing lyrically...like driving your car very fast and crashing it and disturbing priests and stuff.....I just felt very uncomfortable with that whole lyrical content".
He didn't say it was a main reason for leaving, but made it quite clear he didn't like the lyrics. It certainly wasn't just my interpretation.

Joe Siegler
11-19-2005, 02:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
He didn't say it was a main reason for leaving, but made it quite clear he didn't like the lyrics. It certainly wasn't just my interpretation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I don't dispute that. My only dispute is in saying that was the primary reason he left. It wasn't.

David86
11-19-2005, 09:59 AM
Okay, this is how it's going:

LaughingMan: I'm with Bill Ward on the Born Again lyrics.

Me: What did he say about them?

LaughinMan: Well he said that when he left the band after Born Again it was <u>partly</u> because he was so strung out with drugs etc. his parents dying <u>and the rest of it</u> - and </u>partly because he couldn't go along with doing songs about disturbing priests and driving your car very fast and crashing it!

He said "partly", not "main reason" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I took the "and the rest of it" for Bill refusing to say goodbye to romance and not wanting to play without Ozzy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

gunman42782
11-24-2005, 06:40 AM
Well, I now have them all but 7th Star. I am not too fond of the Born Again CD. Gillian screams way too much for my tastes. The music is good, but the lyrics leave much to be desired. And the cover is just awfull!

Psycho Man
11-24-2005, 10:14 AM
Gunman listen to the Born Again Demos, I didn't like the album much but the demos sound better

Franklin
12-07-2005, 12:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You'd rather have the lyrics to Back Street Kids? Rock n Roll Doctor? Dirty Women? Never Say Die? Trashed? Zero The Hero? Country Girl? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not really fair. You seem to make the assumption I sad those lyrics in question were either good or better then Headless Cross's - and I didn't say that.

With that in mind, at least those lyrics don't talk about fire, devils, spirits, death, witches, etc. every five seconds. All of those, save "Dirty Women" (what do you have against it?) are equally ridiculous lyrics, but you had to pull songs from several albums. Headless Cross has a disproportionate concentration.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's hysterical. I think I'm going to burn a CD with the songs mentioned and label it "a disproportionate concentration of ridiculous lyrics."