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View Full Version : Why didnt the 2 Tonys do more of Born Again ?



Eternal Idol
12-26-2006, 08:41 PM
Very odd to me why Iommi and Martin didnt do more of the Born Again material during Martins reign , this guy had the power and range to do it , most songs on Headless Cross Martin does kick-ass screams that would make even Ian proud ! Kill in the Spirt World would fit into Born Again easily !Any thoughts !

David86
12-27-2006, 12:49 AM
Cos Tony Iommi didn't want to? I really can't think of any other reason.

Psychophobia
12-27-2006, 12:52 AM
"Do more of the Born Again material"? They never touched it to begin with! :p

I definately agree that TM could have handled the material, and it's a shame that they didn't give it a go, as there are a couple dirty diamonds on that record that would've been great to hear in later tours.

'Kill in the Spirit World', on BA though?? Ugh! Brutal! I'd sooner listen to a 10 minute extended version of 'The Dark' than that awful fist-pumper.

Eternal Idol
12-27-2006, 06:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia "Do more of the Born Again material"? They never touched it to begin with! :p

I definately agree that TM could have handled the material, and it's a shame that they didn't give it a go, as there are a couple dirty diamonds on that record that would've been great to hear in later tours.

'Kill in the Spirit World', on BA though?? Ugh! Brutal! I'd sooner listen to a 10 minute extended version of 'The Dark' than that awful fist-pumper.



True ! Sorry should have reworded that , still love KITSW though !

guitarsexgod
12-27-2006, 09:20 AM
agreed...they shud have done the songs from that album and even dio didnt touch them...i guess he cudnt do ian justice

Eternal Idol
12-27-2006, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted By: David86 Cos Tony Iommi didn't want to? I really can't think of any other reason.



Sounds like you have some inside info , fill us in ! Please ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/grin.gif

Renaissance
12-27-2006, 06:44 PM
They touched Zero the Hero on the Seventh Star tour, as far I know!

MetalMark
12-27-2006, 07:58 PM
Why they totally abandoned the Born Again material after that tour has always been a bone of contention with many fans. But to my knowledge, with the exceptions of dabbling with just playing a riff from the album here or there on various tour, none of the songs were ever again given a full on live treatment. A shame really with so many great songs. I'm glad that I got to see that tour,
not knowing then, 23 years ago, that those songs would never be
aired in a live setting again.

Eternal Idol
12-27-2006, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: guitarsexgod agreed...they shud have done the songs from that album and even dio didnt touch them...i guess he cudnt do ian justice



Amen !

Eternal Idol
12-27-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: MetalMark Why they totally abandoned the Born Again material after that tour has always been a bone of contention with many fans. But to my knowledge, with the exceptions of dabbling with just playing a riff from the album here or there on various tour, none of the songs were ever again given a full on live treatment. A shame really with so many great songs. I'm glad that I got to see that tour,
not knowing then, 23 years ago, that those songs would never be
aired in a live setting again.



Right for a album that everyone supossedly poo-poos theres great demand to hear it again live and Tony Martin could have done it . Damn shame !!

Petoria000
12-27-2006, 08:40 PM
Probably for the same reason Seventh Star material was never played again (with the exception of HLAW). Tony just wasn't very proud of those albums. He even said in 1987 how he didnt like Seventh Star very much.

I'm sure its also the same reason why Tony never pushed for American CD releases of these two albums.

Eternal Idol
12-27-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Petoria000 Probably for the same reason Seventh Star material was never played again (with the exception of HLAW). Tony just wasn't very proud of those albums. He even said in 1987 how he didnt like Seventh Star very much.

I'm sure its also the same reason why Tony never pushed for American CD releases of these two albums.


Strange ive read books saying hes very proud of those cds and bands that played them ? Who knows !

rar
12-27-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia "Do more of the Born Again material"? They never touched it to begin with! :p

I definately agree that TM could have handled the material, and it's a shame that they didn't give it a go, as there are a couple dirty diamonds on that record that would've been great to hear in later tours.

'Kill in the Spirit World', on BA though?? Ugh! Brutal! I'd sooner listen to a 10 minute extended version of 'The Dark' than that awful fist-pumper.



True ! Sorry should have reworded that , still love KITSW though !
Ah I think there was mention of Tony playing the Zero the Hero riff on the next tour, but that's all.


Quote: Unfortunately, Sabbath seems to have forgotten this era, which is a shame, as Born Again was an excellent album. The only post Born Again tour to have any material from Born Again was the Seventh Star tour, when they played a few bars from Zero the Hero.


ok so it was a few bars. Joe's timeline is the source.
<a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983" target="_blank">http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983 (http://www.black-sabbath.com/personnel/timeline.html#1983)</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

Psychophobia
12-28-2006, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: David86 Cos Tony Iommi didn't want to? I really can't think of any other reason.



Sounds like you have some inside info , fill us in ! Please ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/grin.gif
I think he sees the material as being dated. I can recall a few years ago, on the Tony Iommi forum, it was either an admin or a senior member at the time, who commented that he'd met Iommi during a signing session or backstage thing on either the '94 or '95 tour, and asked him why he didn't play any of the BA, 7th Star, or TYR stuff anymore. His reply was something along the lines of, "Well, that stuff's a bit daft these days, don't you think?"

Not sure if I got the exact quote, but I remember him using the word 'daft'.

Renaissance
12-28-2006, 11:29 AM
Those albums were great!!

Psychophobia
12-28-2006, 12:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!!
Well, I guess 'were' is the key word there. :p

I enjoy them, myself, but I think it's true that a lot of the 80s material hasn't aged as well as the early tunes.

MarcStitz
12-28-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!! You gotta remember Tony wasn't too proud of 1985-1995. He had only one thing in mind was to get Ozzy back in the band(hence the 1985 reunion and the 1992.) But Ozzy said no continue off with his famous Solo carrer. Also Tony said he wasn't proud of Tony Martin joining the band. Something along the line he didn't want Martin in the band.

Psycho Man
12-28-2006, 01:32 PM
bullshit and blasphemy, you don't make five killer albums with a guy bif you don't want him in your band. You also don't take a song like The Shining that was started in 1985 with Donato and work it with probably every singer since unless you are proud of it and knows it kicks ass.

Petoria000
12-28-2006, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
I think he sees the material as being dated. I can recall a few years ago, on the Tony Iommi forum, it was either an admin or a senior member at the time, who commented that he'd met Iommi during a signing session or backstage thing on either the '94 or '95 tour, and asked him why he didn't play any of the BA, 7th Star, or TYR stuff anymore. His reply was something along the lines of, "Well, that stuff's a bit daft these days, don't you think?"

Not sure if I got the exact quote, but I remember him using the word 'daft'.

He thought Tyr was daft? Thats interesting considering the song "Headless Cross" was a staple in the setlist (without Dio).

I wonder why he didnt play much Dehumanizer material after the 92 tour either. Same reason?

Eternal Idol
12-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!!
Well, I guess 'were' is the key word there. :p

I enjoy them, myself, but I think it's true that a lot of the 80s material hasn't aged as well as the early tunes.



wWell i guess your a hater of everything non-Ozzy then !

Eternal Idol
12-28-2006, 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: MarcStitz
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!! You gotta remember Tony wasn't too proud of 1985-1995. He had only one thing in mind was to get Ozzy back in the band(hence the 1985 reunion and the 1992.) But Ozzy said no continue off with his famous Solo carrer. Also Tony said he wasn't proud of Tony Martin joining the band. Something along the line he didn't want Martin in the band.



Marc whatever your smoking or drinking pleaseeee send me some i never heard or read of any of that shit you just spilled up there ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/crazy.gif

Psychophobia
12-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!!
Well, I guess 'were' is the key word there. :p

I enjoy them, myself, but I think it's true that a lot of the 80s material hasn't aged as well as the early tunes.



Well i guess your a hater of everything non-Ozzy then !
http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

That's a crock of shit, and you know it.

Eternal Idol
12-28-2006, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!!
Well, I guess 'were' is the key word there. :p

I enjoy them, myself, but I think it's true that a lot of the 80s material hasn't aged as well as the early tunes.



Well i guess your a hater of everything non-Ozzy then !
http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

That's a crock of shit, and you know it.


Ooops hit a nerve ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/laugh.gif

8bit Fighter
12-28-2006, 09:14 PM
Wanted to point out that Anno Mundi was played during the Europe portion of Cross Purposes Tour.

MarcStitz
12-28-2006, 09:33 PM
Its true, I remember Tony quoting that in one of the Sabbath books

Psychophobia
12-29-2006, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Ooops hit a nerve ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Not really. Stupidity has become such a universal element with the advent of the internet, it doesn't do much more than annoy me at this point.

If you'd hit a nerve, I'd have used an exclamation mark in my sentence as opposed to a period.

rar
12-29-2006, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: MarcStitz
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!! You gotta remember Tony wasn't too proud of 1985-1995. He had only one thing in mind was to get Ozzy back in the band(hence the 1985 reunion and the 1992.) But Ozzy said no continue off with his famous Solo carrer. Also Tony said he wasn't proud of Tony Martin joining the band. Something along the line he didn't want Martin in the band.



Marc whatever your smoking or drinking pleaseeee send me some i never heard or read of any of that shit you just spilled up there ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/crazy.gif

I have. For awhile, Tony and Geezer both knew the most money they could make with money. Whether or not they were proud of the music I'm not sure, but I do know they wanted Ozzy back.

It was either Joe's timeline or Wikipedia where I read this...

Eternal Idol
12-29-2006, 06:45 AM
Originally Posted By: Psychophobia
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Ooops hit a nerve ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Not really. Stupidity has become such a universal element with the advent of the internet, it doesn't do much more than annoy me at this point.

If you'd hit a nerve, I'd have used an exclamation mark in my sentence as opposed to a period.


Truce my friend ! 2 people with different thoughts ok !

Eternal Idol
12-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted By: rar
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: MarcStitz
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Those albums were great!! You gotta remember Tony wasn't too proud of 1985-1995. He had only one thing in mind was to get Ozzy back in the band(hence the 1985 reunion and the 1992.) But Ozzy said no continue off with his famous Solo carrer. Also Tony said he wasn't proud of Tony Martin joining the band. Something along the line he didn't want Martin in the band.



Marc whatever your smoking or drinking pleaseeee send me some i never heard or read of any of that shit you just spilled up there ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/crazy.gif

I have. For awhile, Tony and Geezer both knew the most money they could make with money. Whether or not they were proud of the music I'm not sure, but I do know they wanted Ozzy back.

It was either Joe's timeline or Wikipedia where I read this...




I believe that they wanted Ozzy back but for them to say everything they did before or after Ozzy left and returned was shit , i dont believe that , i read somewhere Geezr said that doing Cross Purposes was the most fun he had recording ever , so who knows , we can argue this shit till we all drop dead on the pc . Happy New Year everybody !

Eternal Idol
12-29-2006, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted By: 8bit Fighter Wanted to point out that Anno Mundi was played during the Europe portion of Cross Purposes Tour.


Correct ! Cozy would have kicked ass on those Born Again songs ! I would have loved to hear him pound Trashed ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/brickwall.gif

Raven Rider
12-30-2006, 04:47 AM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: 8bit Fighter Wanted to point out that Anno Mundi was played during the Europe portion of Cross Purposes Tour.


Correct ! Cozy would have kicked ass on those Born Again songs ! I would have loved to hear him pound Trashed ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/brickwall.gif

Hell, yeah!

Eternal Idol
12-30-2006, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Raven Rider
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol
Originally Posted By: 8bit Fighter Wanted to point out that Anno Mundi was played during the Europe portion of Cross Purposes Tour.


Correct ! Cozy would have kicked ass on those Born Again songs ! I would have loved to hear him pound Trashed ! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/brickwall.gif

Hell, yeah!

Right on brother Cozy would have done justice to Born Again !

8bit Fighter
12-30-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol Correct!

Yeah well, I don't want to brag, but I just couldn't pass up the fact that Anno Mundi was played. When I first read that Tyr was not played after it's released, I thought to myself that cannot be right. Sure enough, answer lied in the tour dates. As for Born Again, yeah, Cozy would of rocked. And how about Neil Murray doing Geezer's bass lines, he could handle it as well.

Eternal Idol
12-30-2006, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: 8bit Fighter
Originally Posted By: Eternal Idol Correct!

Yeah well, I don't want to brag, but I just couldn't pass up the fact that Anno Mundi was played. When I first read that Tyr was not played after it's released, I thought to myself that cannot be right. Sure enough, answer lied in the tour dates. As for Born Again, yeah, Cozy would of rocked. And how about Neil Murray doing Geezer's bass lines, he could handle it as well.



Neil would have done great , people poo-poo his bass playing but hes great , also strikes me odd why in 95 they didnt go back to CP and Tyr material due to the fact that- that line-up was back together agaian .

Renaissance
12-30-2006, 09:18 PM
we may never know! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif

Eternal Idol
12-31-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance we may never know! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif




Yup > http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/images/smilies/confused.gif

Renaissance
12-31-2006, 04:09 PM
Shame isn't it, I would like to hear Tony Martin sing Heart like a Wheel (he did that once)

Eternal Idol
12-31-2006, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Shame isn't it, I would like to hear Tony Martin sing Heart like a Wheel (he did that once)


No also in 1990.

Eternal Idol
01-01-2007, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted By: MetalMark Why they totally abandoned the Born Again material after that tour has always been a bone of contention with many fans. But to my knowledge, with the exceptions of dabbling with just playing a riff from the album here or there on various tour, none of the songs were ever again given a full on live treatment. A shame really with so many great songs. I'm glad that I got to see that tour,
not knowing then, 23 years ago, that those songs would never be
aired in a live setting again.



Me too very lucky to see them in 83 , i think that the 94 line-up could have pulled to off also !

Eternal Idol
01-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Shame isn't it, I would like to hear Tony Martin sing Heart like a Wheel (he did that once)



Sorry 88/90 .

Renaissance
01-23-2007, 09:00 PM
Actually, they played a few bars from that song on the TYR tour!

Eternal Idol
01-23-2007, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Renaissance Actually, they played a few bars from that song on the TYR tour!


I have a lot of shows from that tour it was a little more than a few bars .

Renaissance
01-23-2007, 09:09 PM
yeah...I know they did do a tad of Zero the Hero on the Seventh Star tour.

rar
01-24-2007, 11:15 PM
technically they only played a few bars

Renaissance
01-25-2007, 10:05 AM
the whole opening on Turn to Glenn

OzzyIsDio
07-07-2018, 09:06 AM
I think Tony Martin would do Born Again title track and Keep It warm a whole lot of justice.