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  • Bad Move: Geezer in politics

    I was hoping this would not happen, but it has. One the Heaven and Hell Live web page, I read the following news post (http://www.heavenandhelllive.com/ind...493/pid/400079) in which Geezer gets all political and makes some very pointed comments the upcoming election.

    Why oh why do celebrities insist on voicing their opinions on these things? It completely ruins the majesty of the music to mix it up with politics like this. What right does he have commenting on American politics, anyway? This is a sad, sad, day...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Rich View Post
    What right does he have commenting on American politics, anyway?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
    "i'm 12 and i love dark sabboth"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
      My point is that he's a foreigner commenting on local politics. At any rate, thank you so much for focusing on the intent behind my comments and formulating a intelligent counterpoint. I was afraid people might disagree with my assertion and instead single out a technicality so that they didn't have to actually think about a response.

      Sheesh...

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      • #4
        Seriously.

        Originally posted by Rich View Post
        My point is that he's a foreigner commenting on local politics. At any rate, thank you so much for focusing on the intent behind my comments and formulating a intelligent counterpoint. I was afraid people might disagree with my assertion and instead single out a technicality so that they didn't have to actually think about a response.

        Sheesh...
        Why do you care what he thinks? Is it just because you disagree with him? Is it just because he's not an American? He's a person who is allowed to have and express his opinion. Who cares if he's a celebrity? Why is it when a celebrity expresses their opinion, especially when it's contrary to one's own opinion they want to go nuts over it? Once again, I ask, WHO CARES?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Intothevoid View Post
          Why do you care what he thinks? Is it just because you disagree with him? Is it just because he's not an American? He's a person who is allowed to have and express his opinion. Who cares if he's a celebrity? Why is it when a celebrity expresses their opinion, especially when it's contrary to one's own opinion they want to go nuts over it? Once again, I ask, WHO CARES?
          I did not say I have a problem with Geezer because I disagree with him. What I said here (and in at least one other post on this forum) is that I dislike politics intertwined with other forms of entertainment in this way.

          Politics is a very polarizing, stressful arena (sometimes good, sometimes bad), and the very thought of it ruins the other worldly fantasy of good music for me.

          Further, I think celebrities have more responsibility to act responsibly since they're in the public light. Using a band web page to further his own political agenda is not responsible. He's trying to use his position as an entertainer to manipulate his audience. I think this is irresponsible no matter what end he's promoting (in fact, he attacks both American poles in his post, so even if you wanted to label me, you couldn't). It seems all right for celebrities to raise money for charity, but that's about it. Once they get into politics it seems, to me, like they're throwing around their weight and trying to manipulate an impressionable audience (which is either irresponsible or insulting -- take your pick).

          In a world where people fight bitterly and brutally over matters political, I like coming back to things that hold themselves above the biting sarcasm and fighting words of politics, like those in Geezer's post. Music is, generally, once of those places where I can enjoy it and not worry about who's hating who, or who's personal agenda is being served. It sucks when dirty games get played; no one likes what Sharon did, and that's a sticking point with many people that mar the otherwise spectacular solo career that Ozzy had, but I digress.

          Geezer's lyrics have taken us on adventures for decades. The music with which he's been involved is a fantasy of imagery and deeper meaning. I would hate to have the specter of miserable political positions hanging over his work now.
          Last edited by Rich; 09-21-2008, 08:32 PM.

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          • #6
            What kind of responsibility is that? I know that it is polarizing. Many would argue that all (including Celebrities) have a responsibility to fight and speak out for what they believe in. Quite frankly, I'd rather have that than someone who seems like they're above it all.

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            • #7
              Ah, just ignore it.

              I agree with you, though - I too find it distasteful when those I rely on for entertainment decide to try to sway me politically ... that's not entertaining to me. But it's best not to get riled up about it ... they have a right to voice their opinion, and frankly, if they want to run the risk of limiting their fanbase to those who agree with them pollitically, that's their right.

              That's the real shame of it ... they will turn people away from them by espousing political views, but I doubt political views will turn anyone into a metal fan. For example, Ted Nugent's outspoken views have sure turned a lot of people away from him who otherwise would have enjoyed his music, but I don't think his views are going to encourage Bill O'Rielly or George Bush to buy the complete works of Ted Nugent, if you know what I mean. All Nugent's done is turn people away from his recordings.

              All musicians do when they get political is diminish their fanbase (unless it's a musical form born of politics, such as folk or punk), so in that regard, yes, it is a shame for Geezer and the ENTIRE band that he chose to speak out on this.
              Last edited by racer; 09-21-2008, 10:35 PM.

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              • #8
                you guys don't like it when people... er, sorry, celebrities talk about politics? that's ludicrous. why would you care? Anyone can talk about politics and, in my mind, it makes no difference. If it changes the way you think about music because of it... then you need to not think so much.
                "i'm 12 and i love dark sabboth"

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                • #9
                  I don't have an issue with anyone expressing his/her views on politics, including celebrities. After all, everyone has a right to voice their opinions.

                  What I don't like is celebrities, using their celebrity as a forum to do such. When I discuss politics with friends, family, etc. it's a discussion. When celebrites use the stage, the pulpit, the media, etc. to express their views, it's not only an unfair advantage over the norm, but also inappropriate, IMO.
                  Good Beer is the perfect blend of Art & Science.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rich View Post
                    It completely ruins the majesty of the music to mix it up with politics like this.
                    Rich, you're letting it ruin the "majesty" of the music. I like some of Ted Nugents music but I don't listen to him speak, and I don't read articles about his viewpoints because I know I don't agree with him. Doesn't mean I can't get a charge out of listening to Free For All.

                    Originally posted by Rich View Post
                    Geezer's lyrics have taken us on adventures for decades. The music with which he's been involved is a fantasy of imagery and deeper meaning.

                    You mean lyrics like :

                    A politician's job they say is very high
                    For he has to choose who's got to go and die
                    They can put a man on the moon quite easy
                    while people here on Earth are dying of all diseases

                    Or:

                    Politicians hide themselves away
                    They only started the war
                    Why should they go out to fight
                    They leave that all to the poor



                    These lyrics aren't masking anyone's political viewpoint. Geezer has always pointed out hypocrisies lyrically and otherwise. In that statement on H&H.com, he's pointing out a blatant hypocrisy about a politician just as he did 40 years ago.

                    Originally posted by Rich View Post
                    I would hate to have the specter of miserable political positions hanging over his work now.
                    Again that specter isn't Geezer's doing. Thats a situation/problem you've created for yourself.
                    The best blueberry muffins I ever had landed 6 people in prison, three for life.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by devstorm View Post
                      Rich, you're letting it ruin the "majesty" of the music. I like some of Ted Nugents music but I don't listen to him speak, and I don't read articles about his viewpoints because I know I don't agree with him. Doesn't mean I can't get a charge out of listening to Free For All.




                      You mean lyrics like :

                      A politician's job they say is very high
                      For he has to choose who's got to go and die
                      They can put a man on the moon quite easy
                      while people here on Earth are dying of all diseases

                      Or:

                      Politicians hide themselves away
                      They only started the war
                      Why should they go out to fight
                      They leave that all to the poor



                      These lyrics aren't masking anyone's political viewpoint. Geezer has always pointed out hypocrisies lyrically and otherwise. In that statement on H&H.com, he's pointing out a blatant hypocrisy about a politician just as he did 40 years ago.



                      Again that specter isn't Geezer's doing. Thats a situation/problem you've created for yourself.
                      I disagree. The difference between these lyrics you cite and what Geezer put on the website is that the lyrics are generalities ... they don't say "Vietnam war," for instance, and they don't name any specific politician. They don't name any specific politically-charged disease that went untreated while we went to the moon. The difference is the specifics ... what he did on the website creates debate (which I will not get into) and dissention. There is a big difference. I wish he'd never gone there with his web post. It was ill-advised.

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                      • #12
                        I wouldn't read too much into it. Geezer (and Tony) can't vote here anyway. He's just offering an opinion. I can offer my opinion about the pending Canadian election but it doesn't mean anything.

                        Neil Young has lived here for many years but still can't vote, since he hasn't taken out U.S. citizenship (he's Canadian) but he's not shy about expressing political opinions.

                        But anyway, let's try not to take this too far since Joe is quite adamant about this not being a political forum.

                        Let Geezer have his opinions, don't get cranked up about it, and just enjoy his music.
                        He is not here. He has risen!

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                        • #13
                          I dont know why this is such a controversy. Take it for what it is. Come on airplane slauter of animals is more video game than any kind of REAL sport. Hunting is one thing. Flying around in a helicopter or plane shooting packs of animals is just discusting. I live in IN USA we kill Deer here all of the time....with cars, nice caddilacs, $50,000 trucks and lesser vehicles. Plus we blow thier brains out with guns and eat them. Nothing wrong with that.


                          Ill side with Geezer on this one. Hopefully from this post you all can think a bit more about what he really said. Not just blow up over a few points of the letter. Rednecks and country people care about wildlife too!!!

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                          • #14
                            Good job ... well there you go. We can't even go one page without somebody stirring up the debate.

                            It was one thing discussing whether celebrities should make political commentary, but it is quite another to begin debate about the commentary itself. That is exactly where this thread should never have gone and I would have hoped everybody understood the difference.

                            I highly recommend that this thread be closed now before it continues to go where no man should have gone before

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for your concern Racer. This is still a Sabbath discussion, not one about politics, so for now, I don't see a need to shut this thread. I mean, Geezer made a political statement about an election, we should be able to discuss it here, right?

                              Moving it to General Sabbath though. This is not really a Dio Era-specific topic.

                              Please continue to follow all forum rules, everyone.

                              Thanks,
                              Damian
                              Last edited by Damian; 09-23-2008, 05:10 PM.
                              Damian
                              Super Moderator
                              Black-Sabbath.com

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