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Black Sabbath Vs. Ozzy Round 1 Heaven & Hell Vs. Blizzard of Ozz

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  • Sabbathfan78
    replied
    Heaven & Hell for me. It wasn't even a hard decision. I do like Blizzard of Ozz though maybe if i actually believed Ozzy wrote anything in his solo stuff it may have been harder

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  • The Butt
    replied
    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Neither would I. And I never really thought or said as much, about Iommi. At least, not after I knew any better. Lol

    And hey, you can think of only 'a few'?? I can think of probably a whole forum thread page full of 'better' 'metal guitarists' than Iommi.
    Indeed. I was merely softening the blow for the "IOMMI = GOD" crowd here, haha.

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  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris B
    Which version, though? Ozzy's screwing of Daisly/Kerslake has pretty much ruined it for me. I can't even find a legit CD version of the real BoO.
    C'mon Chris, you can't be crazy enough to actually wonder "which version" I'm referring to here when I'm talking about album(s)--(including Diary) that I've always adored!

    But just so you know, I have both the original issues on CD and the excellent '95 remasters of Blizzard and Diary.

    Btw, the "screwing of Daisley/Kerslake" has absolutely nothing at all--i.e zilch---to do with the awesome rock-metal music that Blizzard and Diary deliver. I can't see how the 'screwing over' of D & K, can 'ruin' either of the authentic, amazing albums for you, unless of course, poor you only have those atrocious 2002 reissues to go by. Alas, it IS sad if you don't have, and can't seem to get the original versions of the albums. If you really want them, I reckon you can find a way to STILL get 'em.

    Originally posted by Warning Rules
    Woah woah woah, Ozzy did metal after Sabbath? Not too sure about that one bud
    Oh well, I've never had any such doubt how actually Ozzy did far classier 'metal' than what Sabbath did without him, in '80 and '81, for starters.

    Originally posted by The Butt
    As influential and skilled as Iommi is, I would not say he is the best metal guitarist.

    I can think of a few I would say are objectively better tbh.
    Neither would I. And I never really thought or said as much, about Iommi. At least, not after I knew any better. Lol

    And hey, you can think of only 'a few'?? I can think of probably a whole forum thread page full of 'better' 'metal guitarists' than Iommi.

    Originally posted by RedZero
    Of course he's the best player out there by faaaaar. Take VanHalen, Adrian Smith, Yngwie, KK, Jake Lee, Roads, or whoever and cut a bunch of fingers off and see who can still play . . . only ONE.
    Without getting into silly hypotheses about 'chopped fingers' and then see "who can still play", I'd just say that Eddie Van Halen, '77-85, was a phenomenal, unrivalled, trail-blazing player in a one-man league, all his own. Ed could play and absolutely slay, like no one else did, not even Iommi. Though, Iommi had already had his glory years behind him before Eddie had stormed the scene. And Van Halen (the band), according to fan and press accounts, did 'upstage' Black Sabbath, at a certain place and certain time, back in the day.

    Btw, sad to see you chop an 'h' off Randy Rhoads (RIP). The guy had his fingers intact, alright, and played brilliantly. Don't wanna see his good name mangled in spelling, heh. LOL
    Last edited by RLP4ever; 07-05-2009, 06:14 AM.

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  • The Butt
    replied
    Originally posted by RedZero View Post
    Of course he's the best player out there by faaaaar. Take VanHalen, Adrian Smith, Yngwie, KK, Jake Lee, Roads, or whoever and cut a bunch of fingers off and see who can still play . . . only ONE.
    As influential and skilled as Iommi is, I would not say he is the best metal guitarist.

    I can think of a few I would say are objectively better tbh.

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  • RedZero
    replied
    Originally posted by The Butt View Post
    Difference of opinions brosef thats how

    Also it legitimately is that much better tbh :V


    This is what irks me. Iommi may be the better guitarist overall, but come on. He's not god, he's not infallible, as 99.9% of this board makes him out to be.

    Iommi HAS (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) created bad riffs/songs. And tbh, Blizzard simply has a higher quantity of better songs than Heaven and Hell does, IMO.

    Simple as that.
    Of course he's the best player out there by faaaaar. Take VanHalen, Adrian Smith, Yngwie, KK, Jake Lee, Roads, or whoever and cut a bunch of fingers off and see who can still play . . . only ONE.

    Leave a comment:


  • Intothevoid
    replied
    Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

    For me, I went with Heaven and Hell. It may not have had the impact that Blizzard had, but it did more for me at a difficult point in my life. But that aside, even the weak tracks are good in my book. While I also think this is true with Blizzard, Heaven and Hell is a cut above to me. On a Sabbath site, there are a lot of people who feel that way. But, that's my opinion. I would even go as far as to say that were I a musician, I would be more proud to have a song like "Heaven and Hell" under my belt than "Crazy Train". But also, Ozzy screwing Daisley and Kerslake taints an otherwise classic album. I know everyone has their beefs but that is just so low class.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris B
    replied
    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Hey, I don't 'lose' in any way at all, actually. I love Blizzard of Ozz AND feel it's way superior to Heaven and Hell, regardless of what others think or which way they vote, on some poll like this. That's a pretty win-win situation for me, I reckon.

    Which version, though? Ozzy's screwing of Daisly/Kerslake has pretty much ruined it for me. I can't even find a legit CD version of the real BoO.

    Leave a comment:


  • WarningRules
    replied
    Originally posted by kentuckyfan View Post
    OZZY sorry but Blizard is the album here that ment more and did more for metal.

    Woah woah woah, Ozzy did metal after Sabbath? Not too sure about that one bud

    Leave a comment:


  • kentuckyfan
    replied
    OZZY sorry but Blizard is the album here that ment more and did more for metal. This got Ozzy out of the hotel and back into music. As I have said before Ozzy got many bands their start in music both with Ozzfest and as opening for him as a solo artist. Heaven and Hell is a great and important album for the rebirth of Sabbath as a band but it has not had the impact of Ozzy and his career.

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  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Originally posted by cwilder86
    Nah. This contest isn't rigged. You're just being a sore loser.
    Hey, I don't 'lose' in any way at all, actually. I love Blizzard of Ozz AND feel it's way superior to Heaven and Hell, regardless of what others think or which way they vote, on some poll like this. That's a pretty win-win situation for me, I reckon.

    Originally posted by WarningRules
    This is what frustrates me. I don't see how people can just say that Blizzard of Oz is incredibly so much better then H&H like that.
    I see it because I feel exactly that way about Blizzard vs H&H. Also, it's the same way you and others probably feel it's completely the other way around, or anything in between, regarding Blizzard vs H&H. No big deal, honestly. Don't be frustrated, mate..Just face it!

    On BoO, compared to most of the previous Sabbath albums, Ozzy's voice is haggard. It's just terrible. It just seems like he started to moan a lot more then sing. Of course, these were his glory days, right? Either way, Dio is, I'm not being subjective here, a more capable vocalist. There's nothing to dispute here. He can do things that Ozzy can't, or couldn't. Plus, he has a better voice (which obviously is subjective, but I don't get what people are listening to when they say that Ozz has a better voice. You may believe that the way he sings/whatever is better, but comparing voices, not close. At all)
    It goes without saying really that I don't find anything 'haggard' or 'terrible' about Ozzy's voice on Blizzard. He 'sings' splendidly, and if, to your ears, he seems to just 'moan' a lot on the record, I'm betting that he must have done that pretty darn well, too.

    Also, I'm no advocate or automatic aficionado of supposedly "more capable" vocalists. This is the whole mumbo-jumbo I hear about Dio and Martin having sooooo much more 'range', 'skills', 'natural talent' and that whole enchilada of vocal virtues, that Ozzy lacked. Whether you're being 'subjective' or not is beside the point. The real point is what the two guys, Ozzy and Dio, achieve vocally, on their respective songs and albums, and the impact their vocal performances have on us fans. Sure, Dio probably can do things, vocally, that Ozzy couldn't, or chose not to, or didn't need to, in Sabbath. They are two very different singers; so I can only expect that much. Oh well, I can argue the reverse, just the same about Ozzy having unique gifts and skills that Dio (and several others) patently lacked. No great argument to be won or lost here, you know. And yeah, I believe 'the way Ozzy sings' has regularly sounded 'better' to my ears. Does that make Ozzy 'better' than Dio? Hell yeah, to my ears and tastes, it sure does.

    Second, we all know that Rhoads was an amazing guitarist, but he can't match up to the riff making of Iommi. He may have had skill up the wall, but I'm sure that he never made a riff with Ozz that was better then any riff that Iommi made with Dio.

    Well, that's my rant for now. I just needed to vent. Whatever.

    I admire Rhoads's unforgettably cool guitar-playing on Blizzard and Diary. He lent a whole lot of oomph to the classic sound and overall greatness of those two records. Yet, I've never canonised Randy,, the way he has been, by countless people, since his tragic, premature death. Heck, some people in these forums, in the past, have said he was far better than EVH....And I had to strongly dissent with that opinion, by stating my own reasons why I thought it just wasn't the case. Now, you say Randy could never match Iommi's mastery of the 'riffs'. Well, Randy wasn't so promiscuously reliant on riffs that you could make parallel comparisons between the riffing abilities, of an established master like Tony Iommi, and an emerging, unmistakeably brilliant player like RR. Lastly, I'd say that I always felt that Randy gave me tons more far cooler moments on his guitar in Ozzy's band, than Iommi showed me on his axe, with Dio, in Sabbath.

    I don't think I 'ranted' or 'vented', but yeah, it's over.
    Last edited by RLP4ever; 07-04-2009, 01:04 AM.

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  • WarningRules
    replied
    Originally posted by cwilder86 View Post
    Nah. This contest isn't rigged. You're just being a sore loser.
    Haha, that's one way to look at it.

    Leave a comment:


  • cwilder86
    replied
    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    WR, that's a pretty ludicrous thing to say, and you know it too. How many "die-hard Ozzy" but "not Sabbath" fans have you met here recently?? Besides, what's anything even wrong with somebody liking an OZZY (solo) album a lot more than he does a 'Black Sabbath' album of the same period?? If anybody has been acting like true "fanboys" here, it's the anything but Ozzy, everything with Iommi crowd of fans here, lately.


    I'd say Blizzard wins by first-round KO, with one killer uppercut to the glass jaw of Heaven and Hell. But then, this is a rigged contest with corrupt judges at the bench.
    Nah. This contest isn't rigged. You're just being a sore loser.

    Leave a comment:


  • WarningRules
    replied
    Originally posted by The Butt View Post

    Also it legitimately is that much better tbh :V
    I SAW THAT!


    Originally posted by The Butt View Post
    This is what irks me. Iommi may be the better guitarist overall, but come on. He's not god
    Yeah. We know. But my point was that he made better riffs then Rhoads.

    Leave a comment:


  • geekwrestler
    replied
    Heaven and Hell. The little dwarf with the mighty axe [or rather voice] wins! :D

    Edit: Maybe it would have been a good idea to pitt the players because thats what it [the thread] turns to in the end!
    Last edited by geekwrestler; 07-03-2009, 10:55 PM.

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  • The Butt
    replied
    Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
    This is what frustrates me. I don't see how people can just say that Blizzard of Oz is incredibly so much better then H&H like that.
    Difference of opinions brosef thats how

    Also it legitimately is that much better tbh :V

    Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
    On BoO, compared to most of the previous Sabbath albums, Ozzy's voice is haggard. It's just terrible. It just seems like he started to moan a lot more then sing. Of course, these were his glory days, right? Either way, Dio is, I'm not being subjective here, a more capable vocalist. There's nothing to dispute here. He can do things that Ozzy can't, or couldn't. Plus, he has a better voice (which obviously is subjective, but I don't get what people are listening to when they say that Ozz has a better voice. You may believe that the way he sings/whatever is better, but comparing voices, not close. At all)
    I actually think that Ozzy's vocals were pretty good on Blizzard/Diary.

    Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
    Second, we all know that Rhoads was an amazing guitarist, but he can't match up to the riff making of Iommi. He may have had skill up the wall, but I'm sure that he never made a riff with Ozz that was better then any riff that Iommi made with Dio.
    This is what irks me. Iommi may be the better guitarist overall, but come on. He's not god, he's not infallible, as 99.9% of this board makes him out to be.

    Iommi HAS (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) created bad riffs/songs. And tbh, Blizzard simply has a higher quantity of better songs than Heaven and Hell does, IMO.

    Simple as that.

    Leave a comment:

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