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Black Sabbath Vs. Ozzy Round 1 Heaven & Hell Vs. Blizzard of Ozz

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  • A Sabbath Historian
    replied
    EASILY Heaven And Hell.

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  • Ted Sallis
    replied
    I can't decide between the two, thus I haven't voted.

    Ted

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  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Originally posted by Requiem View Post
    While I do respect and enjoy 'Heaven and Hell' a lot, I voted 'Blizzard of Ozz' quite easily.

    'Blizzard of Ozz' is one of my all time favourite albums and is packed full of hits. Ozzy sounds great, Randy is at his best and Bob Daisley's lyrics and songwriting (with Randy) is next level. I can't go past songs like 'Suicide Solution', 'Mr Crowley', 'I Don't Know' and 'Goodbye to Romance' to name just a few. When I compare them to the best on 'Heaven and Hell' there really is no competition for me.
    Same goes for me Requiem.

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  • Requiem
    replied
    While I do respect and enjoy 'Heaven and Hell' a lot, I voted 'Blizzard of Ozz' quite easily.

    'Blizzard of Ozz' is one of my all time favourite albums and is packed full of hits. Ozzy sounds great, Randy is at his best and Bob Daisley's lyrics and songwriting (with Randy) is next level. I can't go past songs like 'Suicide Solution', 'Mr Crowley', 'I Don't Know' and 'Goodbye to Romance' to name just a few. When I compare them to the best on 'Heaven and Hell' there really is no competition for me.

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  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    After being hooked on Bark At The Moon, it's the Ozzy album that was out when I was coming up as a youth and I was already hooked on Ozzy's voice, then when I garnered some money together and bought Blizzard, from the first listen I fell in love, the music and the voice, then came Diary and Speak Of The Devil, the rest is history and future, I've never gone back on Ozzy and Sabbath, and never will.
    Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 08-18-2018, 07:32 AM. Reason: Typo

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  • The Sabman Cometh
    replied
    Two critical albums, my choice is Blizzard.

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  • Freeze
    replied
    Blizzard Of Ozz

    Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

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  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Blizzard Of Ozz.

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  • KHH
    replied
    Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
    Yep, none of the fanboys... erm... I mean "Die hard Ozzy but not Sabbath" fans have shown up yet
    I'm a "Die hard Sabbath but not Ozzy, nor H&H" kind of guy. Think that Ozzys first solo beats Heaven And Hell but it's close.

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  • WarningRules
    replied
    Originally posted by 8bit Fighter View Post

    Btw, when is round 2 coming? As much as I love Mob Rules, I like Diary Of A Madman slightly better. It really shown what Randy could do in a second helping in Ozzy's solo career (he was just getting started with the first two Quiet Riot albums in the 70's.)
    Lulz

    Round two:

    http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31452

    Round three:

    http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31460

    Leave a comment:


  • 8bit Fighter
    replied
    I picked Heaven And Hell because simply it's the album I have been listening lately. Blizzard of Ozz isn't bad either, but point the gun at me, I guess at an instant right now is H&H.

    ---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

    Btw, when is round 2 coming? As much as I love Mob Rules, I like Diary Of A Madman slightly better. It really shown what Randy could do in a second helping in Ozzy's solo career (he was just getting started with the first two Quiet Riot albums in the 70's.)

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rules Mob
    replied
    Originally posted by BooSweeney View Post
    Plus, your argument goes both ways...taking Ozzy away and replacing him with someone else might make those records poorer (hard to know for sure, I don't have a time machine to kidnap Ozzy from 1980), but take Rhoads or Daisley away and there's a really good chance the same thing happens. Scratch that. Actually, it did happen...Rhoads was taken away and Daisley was sent away, and that shows in the rest of his albums. They are ok...but none of them ever were as good as those first two.
    The more I think about this, the more I think that it's an excellent point. I prefer Dio Sabbath myself, but in the early 80's I absolutely loved Ozzy's solo work. When I first read this I thought it downplayed Ozzy's significance to his own early solo work a bit more than it deserved. But in truth, after Blizzard and Diary, Ozzy released one more solid album (as I said, I like BATM, but not quite as much as the first two) and from say 85 to 09 I doubt you could fill a vinyl album with Ozzy solo work I like. Perhaps the loss of Rhoads AND Daisley did to Ozzy what leaving Sabbath did to Dio (after The Last in Line I don't care much for his work). And so perhaps Ozzy does get too much credit for the greatness of Blizzard and Diary.

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  • SwissSabbath
    replied
    that's a naughty thing comparing these two albums ;-)
    although heaven&hell is a masterpiece of iommi's riffing - the impact of "the blizzard of ozz" (how the band primarly wanted to be called - and would fited better - it's not a soloalbum of ozzy, it's the teamwork of all four including kerslake and daisley - how can ozzy disgrace randy's legacy by re-recording the parts of them) on my life was so powerful - i have to choose blizzard

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  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Boo, nice to get talk-back from you. I appreciate the exchanges we've had.

    Ha, you're pretty spot-on about Dave Mustaine. He's got such a substantive character (yes, even a healthy arrogance about him which I don't mind at all) and an above-average intellect with a good grasp of various issues and an ability to be expressive about his opinions on them. Besides, he's always been a fabulous, inspired (and inspiring) musician. It's just that when I considered your earlier comments about being 'fair' and as objective as possible in assessing musicians that you may not wholly like, as individuals, for various reasons, Dave instantly sprang to mind----his (allegedly) infamously shabby, high-handed treatment of some of his bandmates, his well-publicised paranoic streak, the born-again Christian turnaround in his life that has both confounded and alienated many of his fans, to varying extents.

    As for your other points, I realise our opinions overlap much and are essentially slightly more similar than they are dissimilar.

    Haha, Boo, lemme confess that when it comes to Ozzy's contributions and importance to the bands he's been in, Sabbath or his own, it isn't so much as my wanting to turn 'lead into gold' as feeling the urge to counter the prevailing penchant in these forums lately for glibly characterising what I definitely already view as 'gold' into cheap 'tin' or less. LOL

    Ozzy was the 'singer' --in Sabbath and the OZZY band-----and I don't think any singer in a metal band ever easily gets 'more' credit than he deserves. The singer 'sings' and his vocal style and the sound of his voice, how it enhances or mars the music, and the impact his vocals have on us, is hardly a trivial consideration, or necessarily a 'lesser' attribute in the band's 'sum of parts' whole, so to speak. And Ozzy is far from alone, in metal music, in being a singer that ONLY sings. So, it's both utterly baffling and rather maddening to constantly hear people carp about Ozzy's supposedly 'insignificant' , unremarkable input to Sabbath, or his solo band. I know that you are not exactly doing this. And I can also understand somebody not being a particularly fervent fan of Ozzy's singing, but it's folly to fail to see or admit how Ozzy's voice was important and helped enhance the music, a.k.a 'the real hard work' that Iommi, Butler and Ward were doing around him, and later, the magnificent music that Rhoads/Kerslake/Daisley made. Metal has always been a patently guitar-driven genre, and I, too, mainly love and follow the metal that I love, primarily for the unlimited guitar coolness on offer. And the devastating drums. The beauty of the bass or rhythm guitar. That said, the vocals can be--and often is---a crucial factor for me, in a lot of metal music that I listen to and love. You're right, Ozzy was 'unique' as was many others, in their own right. I just think that Ozzy's 'voice' and style lent a whole lot more to the powerful and enduring appeal of early-Sabbath and the Ozzy Osbourne band, than is normally either adequately recognised or acknowledged.

    Lastly, I don't know, nor overly care about, how much Ozzy's presence and performances on either Sabbath or the Ozzy band, actually helped "sell" those classic records (Blizzard and Diary, included) All I know is that Ozzy played no mean part in helping make all those records the uniquely impressive and unforgettable hours of priceless metal music, that they undoubtedly are---regardless of how many 'albums', cd/vinyl/etc, they eventually sold, all over the world. cheers, Boo!


    Originally posted by Warning Rules
    Great posts by the two of you, both of you have valid arguments, however, RLP, I'm really not seeing what you're argument is towards the whole "Ozzy contributed little to none other then his vocals".
    Warning, I've probably partially explained this already in my reply to Boo, above. Anyway, when I run into this whole "Ozzy contributed little to none other then his vocals", I can only respond to them by saying 'Yeah, right. So what's your beef with that? Lol
    I' argue that it shouldn't (and it doesn't) matter jack shit whether Ozzy ever wrote a single line of lyrics (though, in fact, he did) to the songs he sang, or sat down to help his band-mates in the overall song-writing sessions or whatever else some people seem to demand of him. Ozzy was the singer. He had a specialist's job to do. And he did it awesomely. He couldn't, indeed needn't, even if he could, have helped with the drums, bass or lead guitar to warrant any more respect or credibility from anybody, than he already merits as the singer. In Black Sabbath, for his singing alone, pure and simple, Ozzy has my admiration and gratitude, no less. If that isn't contribution enough for some, then heck, maybe we should have had Iommi do EVERYTHING in 'his' band, from the start. Or brought in some other guy after Black Sabbath and seen how things panned out without Ozzy, '70- onwards.

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  • BooSweeney
    replied
    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Good to know that you are somebody that can separate your personal prejudices regarding Ozzy's personality and actions, from your estimation of his musical/career credentials. Not everybody, not least many people on this board, apparently, can do that. Dave Coverdale springs to your mind, eh? What about another notorious example: Dave Mustaine?
    Love Dave Mustaine. I've always found him super intelligent and articulate, but he rubs a lot of people the wrong way. He's perceived to be arrogant and he doesn't do a lot to downplay it. I'm sort of the same way, so I understand it.

    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Anyway, I'd maintain that I do find exaggerated and awry, your previous comments that clearly implied Ozzy made no real difference at all to the quality and success of his early solo records. That is almost exactly akin to what I've been seeing some people in the forums constantly say lately about how in the '70s, Ozzy was basically dispensable, in the vein of "aw, anybody else could have taken his place and done what he did" with Sabbath. Similarly, I find it highly disingenuous to see you somehow insist that Ozzy was basically the same old, ordinary lead singer that lent precious little to his band, qualitatively. And I reject the notion that Ozzy had to somehow literally reinvent himself as a singer, learn 'new skills' take 'vocal training and lessons' as you seem to expect. Besides, if you reckon that he did pretty much the same stuff, vocally, that he had previously been there, done that with Black Sabbath, gosh, I'd say that is a marvellous thing. That can hardly be a knock on Ozzy's abilities or talents as frontman/singer. Ozzy was inimitably outstanding with Sabbath, so I'd have no problem with him keeping some of that vocal magic intact, on his solo outings. Of course, you're onto something when you say that Ozzy's backing musicians brought a visible departure from the past, with a very sharply different musical approach than what Ozzy had previously been involved with Iommi and Co. in Sabbath. And I'd maintain that the first few Ozzy albums outdid Dio-Sabbath's own first three. Later, even second-rate Ozzy records were at least more tolerable than the TM-era Sabbath had to offer. That's just always been my view on this matter. And no, you don't need a time machine to contemplate or find firm proof (and I have none, I admit) that without Ozzy, the others would have made a poorer, lesser band. It was just my personal contention of how I think that Ozzy's vocals meant a lot and made a difference to what his band-mates were trying to achieve, and ultimately accomplished, on record. Heck, without Ozzy, we wouldn't have a Blizzard of Ozz, much less the OZZY OSBOURNE band boasting the likes of Randy Rhoads and the rest.
    I'm not saying Ozzy didn't bring anything to table. I've always thought of him as a unique vocalist. His sound is important to those early records and it will be silly to deny it. At the same time however, I still have to view it for what it is. Iommi wrote a lot of the music, Geezer wrote most of the lyrics, Bill Ward provided solid drumming, and Ozzy had his sound. To me RLP, it seems as you're almost trying to turn lead into gold, or somehow convince me that Ozzy's sound is just THAT much more important to the music, with Sabbath or solo, than the sum of the parts suggest. For someone that doesn't care much for the post-1978 output of Sabbath, your argument is a fair one, but if Ozzy's singing isn't the most important thing to people, then it's logical that they are going to be more willing to accept (and possibly even prefer) other eras of Sabbath, or Dio-Sabbath over Ozzy's early solo stuff. I never found Ozzy's "wail" the selling point for me personally; I'm a guitar player. The guitar is why I love Sabbath and that's also why I love Blizzard and Diary. I don't hate Ozzy's vocals or particularly enjoy them either way. They work well for the music and that's all I care about.

    I'm also not saying Ozzy needed to reinvent himself. I was just trying to rationalize why you view his output as vital to both Sabbath and his early solo records, but especially the latter. Ozzy has a unique sound, yes, but so do a lot of other people.

    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Look, Boo, I can't and won't dispute the huge difference that a truly stellar crew of Rhoads/Daisley/Kerslake made initially to resurrect Ozzy's career and make the OZZY band such a terrific force, at the time. I can't think of many of Ozzy's peers (not Gillan, Plant, Coverdale, certainly not RJD, and there are more) that had been singularly blessed with such superb musicians, and guys that were actually able to pull off top-notch song-writing and musicianship for Ozzy. But there's no getting away from the fact that Ozzy's singing sure helped too, to make his solo band's early records so fantastic. Even Zakk and Jake (regardless of my not being a huge fan of either) contributed a lot with their guitars to Ozzy's records. Fact is, Ozzy always had decent-to-great backing bands in his solo career. I'm the first to admit that some of his latter solo records don't remotely rival the sheer quality of his early records. Sure, that has as much to do with some of the utterly mediocre song-writing and inconsistencies of the then-bands as it has to do with their musical approach, Ozzy's own decline, and other factors that must have played a part in the drop-off in form.
    Mostly agreed. Although I just can't give Ozzy that much credit for his first two solo records. He sang, and he sang well, and it helped to a degree, although we obviously don't agree on 'to what degree' it helped to sell those records, and probably never will.

    I must say though, this was a good discussion. I don't get this much where I normally do a lot of my talking about this subject.

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