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Black Sabbath Vs. Ozzy Round 2 Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

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  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Oh yes, TJ. I'm sorry for straying off-road here. I'll resist the temptation to go any further with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • TJSwoboda
    replied
    Let's steer this away from politics, guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rules Mob View Post
    I'm not sure I would agree with characterizing my point as controversy. As I said, mythology is welcome to his opinions, and equally welcome to voice them. But when someone says they don't consider anything other than the Ozzy era Black Sabbath, and proudly proclaims not to post to the Dio era boards, then I think that person's statement that Mob Rules is shit has to be placed in context. I read with interest the exchanges in another thread about the merits of various types of extreme metal. Personally, I don't subscribe to the view that music can fairly be charged with responsibility for any of it's listener's actions. And I'm not in favor of music being compelled to censor itself (by government or artist) so that it's acceptable to every imaginable type of listener. On the other hand, as I've said before, I find that type of music personally unlistenable. And if I were to weigh in on the subject of, say, Slayer's new album by simply saying it stinks (I've never heard it), I think it's only fair that I disclose that the chances of me saying it's great are nil.
    Ok, if wasn't a 'controversy' per se, your back-handed original remark to mythology, earlier, sure seemed like a needless provocation to me. I recall how we had a bad-tempered run-in over something almost identical, in the past---i.e my elaborate critique of, and negative ratings for TDYK made you jump in and go on to repeatedly insist how my well-known lowly regard for Dio-Sabbath (except Mob Rules) made it almost a given that I'd say what I did about TDYK. And you even seemed to arrogantly argue that it was, consequently, so very unnecessary of me to even venture to comment on TDYK. I naturally couldn't let that particular nonsense pass---and I did not.

    You seemed to be starting something similar here, about mythology's opinionated remark regarding Diary vs Mob Rules. Regardless of how blatantly 'partisan' mythology may be about the eras--(and frankly, I wasn't really fully aware of his stance on the Sabbath eras)----I don't see what you get out of exposing his 'extreme bias' here. It's irrelevant---and gosh, he isn't alone in exhibiting 'extreme bias', from time to time, in the myriad sundry thread topics we have circulating in the forums. Strange how, on the one hand, you talk of 'welcoming any opinion' he wishes to have, but in the same breath, snidely cast aspersions on his 'objectivity' (when album preferences are mostly 'subjective' matters, anyway). The 'political' analogy you unveiled in your response, to characterise mythology's comments seemed patently inapt and unfair, that's all.

    I'm glad to know that you oppose the pleas for the sort of retarded 'censorship' decrees on 'extreme metal' that many of the genre's moronic 'moralist' critics have sometimes demanded. I didn't know that you were no fan of Slayer----but I still wouldn't begrudge your saying that their latest album sucked big-time. I think I give you a lot more credit, though, than to ever expect you to say something like that if you hadn't even heard the album. But I wouldn't wanna jump in and say 'Well, what else would you expect from a Slayer-hater?'... if you get what I mean.

    Which brings me to my analogy. George is the host (not a panelist intended to obviously advocate a particular point of view) of a Sunday morning news program in the US. I think people should be aware of his background, and thus his biases, when they hear him discuss whether, for example, "Obama-care" would be a good thing.

    But I do agree with your point that the way MSNBC and the Clinton News Network distort facts with seeming impunity is so much more serious. That's who you meant, right?
    George is hardly the first 'host' (and not a mere guest 'panelist') on a U.S cable tv news & analysis show, to identifiably belong to a certain political persuasion. When it comes to 'hosting' on TV, coupled with the host's personal political affiliations and 'agendas', however well-known or not, I gotta guess that examples abound of that...and singling out George Stephanopoulos is pretty lame. And how many people, do you seriously reckon, that actually watch his show, or pay attention to his views and comments don't already know of his background and 'biases'? You obviously have no such qualms and misgivings about the bare-knuckled, bellicose 'biases' of rabid rabble-rousers of the likes of a Limbaugh or O'Reilly or Hannity.

    As for the likes of MSNBC and CNN promiscuously "distorting facts", well I reckon that, the two of them, combined, couldn't even fantasise about remotely scaling the statospheric heights of deceit and dangerously demented demagoguery, long attained by the 'good folks' at Fox. 'Fair and balanced' eh? Or was it actually 'We Report. You Decide'? No, no..We Decide. You Destroy, LOL

    And oh, 'Obama-Care'...Mate, you'd be pretty lucky to get even a diluted, semi-decent final version of that good thing...eventually. Unless, of course, you are cheerful about the status quo and the wretched, unconscionable, indefensible mess your health care system's mired in, today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ted Sallis
    replied
    IMO...
    Mob Rules is better than Heaven and Hell
    Blizzard of Ozz is better than Diary of a Madman
    and Mob Rules is better than Diary of a Madman.

    ...is there a Heaven and Hell vs. Blizzard of Ozz poll somewhere in here?

    Ted

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rules Mob
    replied
    Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
    But, even if mythology has those particular prejudices regarding the Sabbath eras, I don't see the controversy about the way he voted on this thread. He might genuinely feel Mob Rules is 'shitty' (and the Dio-era, too, perhaps, I don't know). Unlike politicians and cable news channels that can seemingly lie 24/7, cause public harm....and get away with it, we music fans are far more innocuous and innocent with our 'biases'.
    I'm not sure I would agree with characterizing my point as controversy. As I said, mythology is welcome to his opinions, and equally welcome to voice them. But when someone says they don't consider anything other than the Ozzy era Black Sabbath, and proudly proclaims not to post to the Dio era boards, then I think that person's statement that Mob Rules is shit has to be placed in context. I read with interest the exchanges in another thread about the merits of various types of extreme metal. Personally, I don't subscribe to the view that music can fairly be charged with responsibility for any of it's listener's actions. And I'm not in favor of music being compelled to censor itself (by government or artist) so that it's acceptable to every imaginable type of listener. On the other hand, as I've said before, I find that type of music personally unlistenable. And if I were to weigh in on the subject of, say, Slayer's new album by simply saying it stinks (I've never heard it), I think it's only fair that I disclose that the chances of me saying it's great are nil.

    Which brings me to my analogy. George is the host (not a panelist intended to obviously advocate a particular point of view) of a Sunday morning news program in the US. I think people should be aware of his background, and thus his biases, when they hear him discuss whether, for example, "Obama-care" would be a good thing.

    But I do agree with your point that the way MSNBC and the Clinton News Network distort facts with seeming impunity is so much more serious. That's who you meant, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • RLP4ever
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rules Mob View Post
    But, for example, when George Stephanopoulos offers his opinion on politics, I think people should know he was once a liberal policy advisor to a liberal president.
    Well, what would you expect somebody like GS to do then, today----with an incumbent quasi-liberal president and administration? He certainly can't be expected to whip up the rogue, right-wing lunatic hysteria of somebody like Dick 'Darth Vader' Cheney, don't you think?

    Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced
    Something like this should actually be Jay Leno's opener on the Tonight Show, sometime.

    But, even if mythology has those particular prejudices regarding the Sabbath eras, I don't see the controversy about the way he voted on this thread. He might genuinely feel Mob Rules is 'shitty' (and the Dio-era, too, perhaps, I don't know). Unlike politicians and cable news channels that can seemingly lie 24/7, cause public harm....and get away with it, we music fans are far more innocuous and innocent with our 'biases'.
    Last edited by RLP4ever; 11-21-2009, 04:02 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rules Mob
    replied
    Originally posted by mythology View Post
    Or censoring opinion.....
    Not at all my friend. You're welcome to have any opinion you'd like, and I certainly have no power, or inclination, to "censor" you. But, for example, when George Stephanopoulos offers his opinion on politics, I think people should know he was once a liberal policy advisor to a liberal president. Same thing here. You don't like Dio. You voted for Diary. I did too, incidentally, and I love Dio's work with Sabbath.

    Leave a comment:


  • mythology
    replied
    Or censoring opinion.....

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rules Mob
    replied
    Originally posted by mythology View Post
    And your point is ????
    Just exposing extreme bias where I see it.

    Leave a comment:


  • WheelsOfConfusion
    replied
    I voted 'Mob Rules' too. I like 'Diary of a Madman' but it's just not in the same league. I also think 'Mob Rules' is a better album than the excellent 'Heaven and Hell'. Although H&H has a couple of iconic post Ozzy Sabbath tracks, namely the title track, I feel MR is still overall the stronger album.

    Leave a comment:


  • mythology
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rules Mob View Post
    Aren't you the same guy who complained about referring to the albums released when Ozzy was the singer in Black Sabbath as the "Ozzy fronted ouput?" And proudly proclaimed that you don't post on the Dio boards? http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31895, post #31.

    Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced."


    And your point is ????

    Just expressing my opinion. Like the many Dio-biased fand.

    Leave a comment:


  • H&H
    replied
    Diary - very good
    Mob Rules - great

    winner - Mob Rules

    Leave a comment:


  • D-Generation X
    replied
    Had to go with Diary of a Mad Man. Randy's playing on this was just some of the best I have ever heard.
    Not taking away nothing from Mob Rules as Dio sounds mean and angry as hell. But for me it's Diary by a just a hair

    Leave a comment:


  • thesithempire
    replied
    I think they're the best albums from the respective bands. Diary is Ozzy's solo masterpiece. Mob Rules is Heaven and Hell's (which is what I'm calling this lineup).

    Nothing beats "Sign of the Southern Cross" and "Falling off the Edge of the World" for sheer epic power. If you close your eyes, you can hear dinosaurs roaming across the plains. "Over and Over's" a great, bluesy ballad. "Turn up the Night" I could do without. Not horrible, but it's needlessly noisy and drowns out a decent riff. Unfortunately, the band saw fit to put the grotesquely hideous "Slipping Away" on the album, which is just awful, worse than "Walk Away" from the prior album. It's this band's "The Crunge". As regards "The Mob Rules", the earlier, movie-version should've been used instead. Also "Country Girl", while a great song, could've used Butler on lyrics for something a bit less prosaic, but what a riff! Overall, the balance between Dio and the band was, IMO, perfectly achieved here, and I really think it's a shame a third album from this lineup didn't come at this time.

    Diary of a Madman begins and ends with two of Ozzy's best songs: "Over the Mountain" and "Diary of a Madman", which IMO is his solo crowning achievement, plaintive, chilling, and powerful, an absolutely brilliant song that never stops giving. "Tonight" and "You Can't Kill Rock 'n' Roll" are both excellent ballads. "SATO" and "Little Dolls" are fun, although I've long ceased finding that to be true of "Flying High Again", though it has some great playing by Randy. The album's also benefited by great production, and there really isn't a single dud on the album.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rules Mob
    replied
    Originally posted by mythology View Post
    Diary of a Madman easily. Mob Rules is shit.
    Aren't you the same guy who complained about referring to the albums released when Ozzy was the singer in Black Sabbath as the "Ozzy fronted ouput?" And proudly proclaimed that you don't post on the Dio boards? http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31895, post #31.

    Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced."

    Leave a comment:

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