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Black Sabbath Vs. Ozzy Round 4 Seventh Star Vs. The Ultimate Sin

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  • #16
    geekwrestler, it is ok to think that Britney Spears third album is better than Master Of Reality as well. A bit weird but of course everyone has the right to their own opinion.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by geekwrestler View Post
      So, just because you like the Ultimate Sin, everyone is blind? [Technically the board is not blind as it just doesn't have eyes. Simplistically it is software on an internetwork of computers connected to each other through the World Wide Web to facilitate discussions.]

      Even if you dislike Seventh Star or hell all of post-Ozzy Sabbath, I think it is waaaaaay out of the line to call everyone blind because their taste doesn't match yours. I mean what are they going to do ? Make you dislike Ozzy?

      FYI, as much as I am an Iommi worshipper [see sig below for proof] I quite enjoy the first two Ozz albums. He never clicked for me after that.

      EDIT: Oh and 8 by 6 margin goes to show that there are quite a few Ultimate Sin fans.

      Hey geek, c'mon, don't take it too seriously or personally, mate. I'm sure KHH was saying 'the board is blind' line in a sort of tongue-in-cheek, satirical way, that's all. For the record, I have strongly slammed Seventh Star, on this board, in the past. I don't even regard it as a Sabbath album, but more importantly, I just find it altogether really sucky. That's just me.

      But yea, it's obvious, these are just poll threads, and apparently many people are just voting and not commenting. This 8-6 scoreline is probably also the closest so far, among all the polls we've had, in this series. Btw, geek, how much do you really like Iommi solo??
      Last edited by RLP4ever; 07-13-2009, 09:12 AM.
      "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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      • #18
        Even Ozzy doesn't like Ultimate Sin.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AngryHeart View Post
          Even Ozzy doesn't like Ultimate Sin.
          I didn't know that, but frankly, AngryHeart, do you think it makes any difference at all, whether Ozzy himself loves or loathes that record. I reckon all the fans really care about is what they feel about it themselves. Apparently, plenty of fans do like The Ultimate Sin. There have been 2-3 people on this board that I remember saying that TUS is actually their #1 or second-fave OZZY record.
          "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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          • #20
            Originally posted by The Rules Mob View Post
            This is like the Kansas City Royals playing the Washington Nationals. Calling either the "winner" feels disingenuous.
            That's how I feel about this round too. Had Seventh Star gone against any other solo album from BoO through Down to Earth it would of lost, and in some cases, lost by a lot. I feel Ultimate Sin though is the worst Ozzy solo album (besides the equally bad Black Rain). That makes this a close contest, but one that I don't really care about.

            Seventh Star is a decent album, although it hasn't aged well and hardly sounds like a typical Sabbath record (not that it's Iommi's fault because it wasn't supposed to be, but it still needs to be mentioned.) If you can get around that, it's quite enjoyable. I still listen to it on occasion. Compared to other Sabbath records though, it's definitely in the bottom quarter.

            I was fortunate to pick up Ultimate Sin early in 2005 at a Best Buy. It was on clearance and I had known it was out of print, so I lucked out. I only listened to it a couple times though. The only song halfway decent is "Shot In the Dark', and other than that there's not a good hook or catchy riff to be found. It makes Bark at the Moon look brilliant in comparison, and I've already stated my displeasure with that album.

            So, Seventh Star by a nose for me. 3-1 total in favor of the Sabbath records, but 3 of the 4 contests were quite close. It could easily be 3-1 Ozzy or 4-0 Sabbath depending on my mood.

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            • #21
              The Ultimate Sin

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              • #22
                Let's see, this coin has 2 tails so I can't even flip it to decide. Maybe throw some darts?

                Well, it's 7th by a nose.
                Is it just me, or does somebody else believe it?
                I'm not alone, and I'm not afraid.
                There's just one thing to say, after all.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
                  Hey geek, c'mon, don't take it too seriously or personally, mate. I'm sure KHH was saying 'the board is blind' line in a sort of tongue-in-cheek, satirical way, that's all. For the record, I have strongly slammed Seventh Star, on this board, in the past. I don't even regard it as a Sabbath album, but more importantly, I just find it altogether really sucky. That's just me.

                  But yea, it's obvious, these are just poll threads, and apparently many people are just voting and not commenting. This 8-6 scoreline is probably also the closest so far, among all the polls we've had, in this series. Btw, geek, how much do you really like Iommi solo??
                  Nah mate. You have given your reason as to why you like Ozzy's Ultimate Sin and his discography as a whole. KHH on the other hand is making an insult just because people do not agree with him. It just cut too close to home for me and in hindsight a foolish decision to feed a troll seeing from his reply.

                  Iommi to me is what Ozzy is to you mate! I [despite my relative inexperience] have tried to find another guitarist like him.. Blackmore, Van Halen, Hendrix, Rhoads but none come close IMO. His sound, playing style is just different.. one moment he is out to kill [Die Young], other times he's a madness inducing toxin [Megalomania], while at times just hits you on the head with a hammer [Letters from Earth]. He can make the guitar scream like nobody can [Lonely is the Word]. Frankly more substance over flash. Hell I even love the Iommi album. That's how big he is for me. :D

                  Btw, I must thank you for your Diary comments on the other thread. I went back to the album [hadn't given it much of a chance] and love it. Still doesn't have anything on Mob Rules though [Ozzy's singing is sucky like NSD! IMO] but what an album! Thanks!

                  KHH wrote:
                  geekwrestler, it is ok to think that Britney Spears third album is better than Master Of Reality as well. A bit weird but of course everyone has the right to their own opinion.
                  Apparently there are millions that would say as such who've never heard of Black Sabbath. Master though, remains special for it was with me on a very difficult time of life. But comments like these just reaffirm to me that you have the sensibility of a troll.. just to make flames.

                  EDIT: Just saw the poll results.. 14-7. Wow, from a close contest to a brilliant thumping! :D

                  Note: Added 2 more sentences to the Iommi worship para. Just remembered them.
                  Last edited by geekwrestler; 07-15-2009, 01:02 AM.
                  Tony Iommi Fact #021
                  Before telling Tony Iommi his guitar was slightly out of tune, Ronnie James Dio was seven feet tall.

                  Stolen from: Tony Iommi Facts website.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Haha, geek...so cool to hear that you gave Diary another go, and ended up loving it. I was just doing my job; touting the greatness of a truly great Ozzy album. So, don't thank me, mate I'm just glad that my prior comments spurred you to reconsider what I've always considered a true, timeless, classic record. Btw, I actually don't love ALL of Ozzy's discography. I have slammed some of his latter, lame solo albums, as well. But yeah, I stand by my love and preference for the OZZY albums that I do love, to anything post-Ozzy Black Sabbath.

                    Interesting to hear your opinions on Iommi relative to some of his guitar great peers. As for me, I love Eddie Van Halen a lot more.
                    "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
                      Haha, geek...so cool to hear that you gave Diary another go, and ended up loving it. I was just doing my job; touting the greatness of a truly great Ozzy album. So, don't thank me, mate I'm just glad that my prior comments spurred you to reconsider what I've always considered a true, timeless, classic record. Btw, I actually don't love ALL of Ozzy's discography. I have slammed some of his latter, lame solo albums, as well. But yeah, I stand by my love and preference for the OZZY albums that I do love, to anything post-Ozzy Black Sabbath.

                      Interesting to hear your opinions on Iommi relative to some of his guitar great peers. As for me, I love Eddie Van Halen a lot more.
                      I always like Ozzy best with Sabbath. He used to have that edge to his voice that ran along with the riff.. secondary to the riff.. kinda like egging on the listener. He just lost it by the time TE rolled out. Randy is the only reason I love his first 2 solo albums. [Although I was burned by the 2002 remaster fiasco as I hadn't researched the thing carefully. New = Better then. I know better now.. :| ]

                      A better guitar player I always feel is determined not only how well he can play but also the music he creates AND also more importantly the rythm section which compliments him. Geezer Butler and Bill Ward are the perfect counterfoil for Iommi [the later players are spotty IMO but Tony was more brilliant than ever]. As for liking him more.. well he is kinda like the opposite than many of the well known names.. substance over style like I said. I dl'ed a YouTube clip of him playing on Don Kirschner's rock concert and even on that live performance he doesn't go wild like most guitarists would. Infact the only movement is stepping front and back. Can't quite describe it. FYI, I felt that Diary vs. HnH was a better contest than BoO so I sat down yesterday to compare. HnH first. I never made it to Diary as I went on to replay HnH 3 times. [The 1st Japanese press is awesome than the remastered RoH set].

                      Okay that's enough Iommi love. This is veering way off topic. :|

                      EDIT: [Offtopic] You know I have heard of Van Halen outshining BS on the NSD! tour. Does anybody find it strange that Van Halen would also undergo the same "Rotating vocalist" thing like Sabbath? Voodoo? :D
                      Last edited by geekwrestler; 07-15-2009, 03:54 AM.
                      Tony Iommi Fact #021
                      Before telling Tony Iommi his guitar was slightly out of tune, Ronnie James Dio was seven feet tall.

                      Stolen from: Tony Iommi Facts website.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Calling people "troll" without further arguments is a bit... hmm... trollish I'd say.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KHH View Post
                          Calling people "troll" without further arguments is a bit... hmm... trollish I'd say.
                          Thankyou for the compliment. I have no more to say. Have a nice day!
                          Tony Iommi Fact #021
                          Before telling Tony Iommi his guitar was slightly out of tune, Ronnie James Dio was seven feet tall.

                          Stolen from: Tony Iommi Facts website.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I like both albums, althought neither are any where near as great as some of their othere releases.
                            But Ultimate Sin edges it for me, mainly because of some good memories from seeing Ozzy on that tour, I saw him in Feb '86 in Manchester, great gig, also saw him in Aug '86 at Donington, not bad but a little dissapointing compared to the Feb gig, sadly never saw Sabbath around this time.
                            Ozzy released a Donington Souvenir single of Ultimate Sin/Lightning Strikes prior to the concert and yet suprisingly he never played any of 'em.
                            Do you believe a word what the good book says?
                            Or is it just a holy fairytale and God is Dead?

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                            • #29
                              geek, you're right on the money, mate, and obviously on the same page as me, regarding 'Ozzy was best in Sabbath'. I, too, have always reserved my greatest love and regard for Ozzy, for his Sabbath years. TE and NSD, though, are the two Ozzy-era albums that I've always been ambivalent about much less for any of Ozzy's failings than the rest of the band's decidedly off-beat, overly experimental, and mostly very lacklustre music. Sure, Ozzy wasn't quite the compelling vocal force he was on the six prior classics, but I thought he was pretty darn alright, without being awesome, on TE and NSD, to be honest.

                              Sorry to hear that you were among those suckered into buying the atrocious '02 remasters. At least, you got around to hearing the originals. That's consolation, and reward, enough!

                              Also, as much as I'd readily acknowledge and have hugely admired Tony Iommi's godly guitar greatness, through a lot of his career, I have just always related to and been awed by EVH's phenomenal playing ('76-85), that much more. So, when I hear you say Tony's exceptional virtue of being more "substance over style", I gotta say that apart from some others, EVH definitely had tons of both, i.e style AND substance, the swagger AND the breath-taking playing chops. Eddie's surreally terrific TONE, for instance, had me floored, from the start. Some critics and fans carped about Ed being an overly cold, 'steely' player bereft of emotion and feel. But no, that's an argument that I won't get into here. I recognise your comments about Tony being a mostly non-showy, more restrained, modest sort of player, especially LIVE onstage. But geek, you know what? I've heard some of Tony's biggest fans sometimes seriously complain about this, i.e his lack of greater style, showmanship and stage presence but a strange sedateness, instead, that supposedly rendered many Sabbath performances downright dull and unsatisfactory, in some respects.

                              **hey, I know all too well about the curse of the changing frontman/singer that had befallen my beloved Van Halen. Don't even start me talkin' about what I truly feel about that. That's why I have occasionally stated in the forums how, when debating the various Sabbath eras on this board, allusions to, or direct comparisons with Van Halen are often inevitable and quite apt. Except that, Tony Iommi and Black Sabbath have lived through way more 'revolving doors', 'rotating vocalists' and changing line-ups than Van Halen ever did.

                              Btw, now that we're onto the TM-era albums, I reckon I might as well stop voting should cwilder continue further with the Sabbath vs Ozzy solo polls. LOL
                              Last edited by RLP4ever; 07-15-2009, 05:01 AM.
                              "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
                                geek, you're right on the money, mate, and obviously on the same page as me, regarding 'Ozzy was best in Sabbath'. I, too, have always reserved my greatest love and regard for Ozzy, for his Sabbath years. TE and NSD, though, are the two Ozzy-era albums that I've always been ambivalent about much less for any of Ozzy's failings than the rest of the band's decidedly off-beat, overly experimental, and mostly very lacklustre music. Sure, Ozzy wasn't quite the compelling vocal force he was on the six prior classics, but I thought he was pretty darn alright, without being awesome, on TE and NSD, to be honest.

                                Sorry to hear that you were among those suckered into buying the atrocious '02 remasters. At least, you got around to hearing the originals. That's consolation, and reward, enough!

                                Also, as much as I'd readily acknowledge and have hugely admired Tony Iommi's godly guitar greatness, through a lot of his career, I have just always related to and been awed by EVH's phenomenal playing ('76-85), that much more. So, when I hear you say Tony's exceptional virtue of being more "substance over style", I gotta say that apart from some others, EVH definitely had tons of both, i.e style AND substance, the swagger AND the breath-taking playing chops. Eddie's surreally terrific TONE, for instance, had me floored, from the start. Some critics and fans carped about Ed being an overly cold, 'steely' player bereft of emotion and feel. But no, that's an argument that I won't get into here. I recognise your comments about Tony being a mostly non-showy, more restrained, modest sort of player, especially LIVE onstage. But geek, you know what? I've heard some of Tony's biggest fans sometimes seriously complain about this, i.e his lack of greater style, showmanship and stage presence but a strange sedateness, instead, that supposedly rendered many Sabbath performances downright dull and unsatisfactory, in some respects.

                                **hey, I know all too well about the curse of the changing frontman/singer that had befallen my beloved Van Halen. Don't even start me talkin' about what I truly feel about that. That's why I have occasionally stated in the forums how, when debating the various Sabbath eras on this board, allusions to, or direct comparisons with Van Halen are often inevitable and quite apt. Except that, Tony Iommi and Black Sabbath have lived through way more 'revolving doors', 'rotating vocalists' and changing line-ups than Van Halen ever did.

                                Btw, now that we're onto the TM-era albums, I reckon I might as well stop voting should cwilder continue further with the Sabbath vs Ozzy solo polls. LOL
                                Well I don't think you'll be surprised to learn that I like NSD! [TE isn't very consistent but has some very good songs like Gypsy. Ozzy is gold on that song too.] NSD! is a special case really.. it kind of feels like the lords of Gloom and Doom let their hair down for one outing! Ozzy's disinterested vocals along with the arse-kicking riff on Johnny Blade [reminds me of the Spiderman song] is seriously awesome.

                                And while HnH is my favourite Sabbath record [tied with Sabotage] I'll be the first one to admit that no better vocalist for Sabbath than Ozzy pre TE. My main reason for liking Dio is because of his fantasy lyrics [no more less than his incredible voice]. I am a huge LOTR fan and Dio on the first two outings makes the songs magical!

                                To each his own I guess. For you it is EVH and for me it is TI! [Doesn't Eddie Van Halen play [or contribute a riff?] on Cross Purposes? The song Evil Eye, if I remember correctly.] I kind of find Tony Iommi's lack of movement in live performances more as majestic! Kinda like a king that while enjoy's making everyone mad, is never intoxicated by his own art! [I'd probably faint if I ever get to meet him!

                                Maybe you should try a re-listen of the TM-era albums. While certainly not on the level of the earlier masterpieces they are pretty good. Seventh Star is like NSD!, and so is some of the Eternal Idol but Headless Cross & Tyr contain excellent music for me. [Despite the production on HC.] Also there's one Dio album in the mix head to head against No More Tears. Dehumanizer kicks arse! :D So don't say no more votes just yet!

                                We should have a Geezer Butler vs. Bill Ward bout too. Sadly not many people have heard stuff from one of the best rythm section's in Rock'n'Roll.
                                Tony Iommi Fact #021
                                Before telling Tony Iommi his guitar was slightly out of tune, Ronnie James Dio was seven feet tall.

                                Stolen from: Tony Iommi Facts website.

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