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  • Dave Holland drum parts

    Is it true that Iommi replaced Hollands drumparts because of his child molestation conviction?

  • #2
    Originally posted by miracle View Post
    Is it true that Iommi replaced Hollands drumparts because of his child molestation conviction?
    Absolutely, and it was the correct thing to do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, and the album is better for it musically.

      Holland is one of the most boring drummers I can think of, even though he played on British Steel. How he was in Judas Priest for so long I don't get, given that his predecessor (Les Binks) and successor (Scott Travis) are much better.

      There's a place for steady four-on-the-floor drumming (Phil Rudd is a master of it), but Holland rarely did anything that couldn't be done by a drum machine...and indeed on the Turbo tour he was "augmented" by an "auxiliary" drummer under the stage using an electronic kit.

      I don't know why Tony and Glenn used him originally, except that Glenn knew him from Trapeze days.

      I don't blame Tony Iommi or Glenn Hughes for not wanting a convicted sex offender appearing on their album.
      He is not here. He has risen!

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      • #4
        Apparently to some sources on the internet he has claimed he(Holland) was innocent and that it was apparently a moneygrab inflected by the parents of the child

        True or not im not a big fan fan of the Deep session version and prefer the original mostly because you could actually hear the keyboards and for some reason the keyboards are hardly there in the new mix (maybe the sounded to eighties or nineties)

        What holland did with priest wasnt that impressive it was mainly solid (or boring) but the stuff with trapeze was actually quite good (but maybe more because i prefer trapeze instead of judas priest)

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        • #5
          When your famous or semi-famous like dave holland it's always stated that it's just a money money grab. Never rape. Famous people rape and molest too. They just have the money to hush it up usually. Not really sure dave does though.

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          • #6
            Plus, the "money grab" thing might have been easier to believe if it had been the first time Holland had been involved in such stories, which wasn't the case.
            Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
            "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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            • #7
              And, regardless the circumstances (money-grab or not), Holland was convicted. That's not the attention an artist wants for their new release ... "featuring on drums, convicted child molester ..."

              Some people complained that the new drums were somehow out of sync, but I don't hear it. I think that was more from Holland fans who didn't understand the severity of his conviction.

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              • #8
                Sorry to have to ask, but is there any documented quote from Tony as to the conviction (or even the accusation) being the reason why? Just curious, since there seems to be a lot of kvetching here about Holland's playing - Maybe Tony thought in hindsight that it was sub-standard? Otherwise, I don't think it's safe to assume what Tony was thinking - Could have been the accusation, or hindsight of the playing, or just wanting new drums 'just because' (hey, Tony's got the money! ). The quote from the replacement said "Tony's manager, Ralph, called me to say they needed to re-record the drums" which makes me think that maybe they wanted to do a final mix but the original drum track might have been damaged while shelved all those years (it happens).

                And for the record, Holland didn't play any drums on Defenders, Turbo or Ram It Down - All done via drum machine. Same for all the studio bonus tracks on the Priest reissues. So if you think those drum tracks seem square and robotic, there's a good reason for it!

                All the best,
                PAULIE
                Last edited by Paulie 88; 07-16-2009, 06:48 PM.
                http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

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                • #9
                  It wasn't an accusation - Holland was convicted. I don't recall any public comments by Iommi, but you obviously don't want a convicted child molester on your new CD release. That's not the kind of PR Iommi would want.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Paulie 88 View Post

                    for the record, Holland didn't play any drums on Defenders, Turbo or Ram It Down - All done via drum machine. Same for all the studio bonus tracks on the Priest reissues. So if you think those drum tracks seem square and robotic, there's a good reason for it!

                    All the best,
                    PAULIE
                    WTF?!! That's the first time I've heard that! Where did you get that info?
                    "So if you want to know where I've been hiding all these years, follow the tears.. follow the tears.."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by racer View Post
                      It wasn't an accusation - Holland was convicted. I don't recall any public comments by Iommi, but you obviously don't want a convicted child molester on your new CD release. That's not the kind of PR Iommi would want.
                      Oh I have no question about that, which is why I mentioned that even the accusation would be reason enough. And rightly so! I'm not particularly familiar w Holland's case, so I'm not sure when the conviction actually happened, in regards to being before or after the re-recording, but I remember the accusation went back a ways.

                      Heck, Michael Jackson was never convicted of anything, and the cash settlement was by his insurance company and not Jackson himself (who flatly denied any wrongdoing in the text of the settlement), yet the whole planet thinks he was a diddler (the presence of a settlement seems to indicate admission, but that's the court of public opinion - Civil lawsuits are deadly). Who knows, maybe he was. Plenty of people would distance themselves from Jackson, despite his hugeness as a performer and celebrity, lest they get bad PR - And that's just from an accusation. That's all I was suggesting.

                      Gotta wonder about Holland, seems tough to have gotten a conviction without there being really damning testimony - Such a horrible thing. No one needs that kind of taint on their otherwise worthy album, that's for sure. Bottom line, I'm glad Iommi replaced the drum tracks, I was just curious if the matter was ever publicly addressed.

                      All the best,
                      PAULIE

                      PS

                      Originally posted by sandman616 View Post
                      WTF?!! That's the first time I've heard that! Where did you get that info?
                      Tipton talked about the Defenders drum tracks on the Metal Works videotape - Turbo is just plainly obvious and Ram It Down has the same sounds - Additionally, I use some of the same samples.
                      Last edited by Paulie 88; 07-16-2009, 07:03 PM.
                      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

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                      • #12
                        Why did he pick Holland to play drums on the Eight star demos ? Was he good friends with him or was it through Glenn hughes who he played with in Trapeze ?

                        I also wonder what Glenn has said about the conviction ..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dave Holland (Wolverhampton, Staffordshire) is an English rock drummer, best remembered from his stint with Judas Priest between 1979 and 1989. He is currently in prison for attempted rape of a wheelchair-bound, 17-year-old boy. A jury found Holland guilty of one charge of attempted rape and five counts of indecent assault of a teenage boy who was taking drum lessons at Holland's house. Holland however, maintains that he is innocent and that the relationship with his pupil was not sexual.

                          The above is from Wikipedia ... not the best "source," but it's what I understood before heading there and it was the quickest thing I could grab to post.

                          As far as why Holland played on the original demos, probably because he knew both men, was available at the time, and had worked with Hughes in the past.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paulie 88 View Post
                            Tipton talked about the Defenders drum tracks on the Metal Works videotape - Turbo is just plainly obvious and Ram It Down has the same sounds - Additionally, I use some of the same samples.
                            Was anything on Turbo actually done by living, breathing humanity? That has got to be one of the most sterile, synthesised albums I have ever heard that dares to carry the label "heavy metal," along with anything Def Leppard did post-High 'N Dry. I saw that tour in Detroit. It was the first time I'd ever seen Priest and by the end I was almost in tears - literally.

                            • One of the GOOFIEST stage shows I've ever seen.
                            • The band trying to look "glam." No offence to Rob, since he is one of my favourite singers ever and what he does in his personal life is his own business, but the look he had then should have removed any doubt about his being gay.
                            • They used the guitar synths on the OLD SONGS. I about puked when "Victim Of Changes" opened with this synthy, farty "eerrrrmmmpffffff" sound.

                            Dokken was the support band. They pissed all over Priest. At least George Lynch played a REAL guitar through REAL Marshall stacks.

                            I have often wondered just why Priest kept Holland on. He's got to be the crappiest drummer they've ever had.

                            The drum machine on Gary Moore's Wild Frontier album sounds a lot more convincing than some of Holland's actual "drumming."
                            He is not here. He has risen!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by racer View Post
                              Wiki: "Dave Holland (Wolverhampton, Staffordshire)..."

                              As far as why Holland played on the original demos, ...
                              Also remember, when Iommi needed to replace Bill, he called on fellow Birmingham musician Bev Bevan (the Move were a big influence on Sabbath). I don't know where Wolverhampton is, but Priest was another Birmingham band - Holland was known for having been in probably the second-biggest metal band ever, and was available. Makes sense to me.

                              All the best,
                              PAULIE
                              http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

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