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Gillen in 94 ????

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  • Gillen in 94 ????

    Heard some members talking about this awhile back . First off looked throu all my books and there was no mention of this anywhere ! Why would Iommi bring Ray back almost 8 years later ? He failed in Blue Murder , fucked up in Badlands ! Wasnt he sick and pretty much out of music by then ~? This would have been another of Tonys many mistakes ! Another slap in Martins face too !
    The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
    Heard some members talking about this awhile back . First off looked throu all my books and there was no mention of this anywhere ! Why would Iommi bring Ray back almost 8 years later ? He failed in Blue Murder , fucked up in Badlands ! Wasnt he sick and pretty much out of music by then ~? This would have been another of Tonys many mistakes ! Another slap in Martins face too !
    uhh... I don't think so. I've never heard this? who exactly is your source? and Ray didn't fuck up anywhere, one talented guy. Badlands kicks ass. In 94 Sabbath recorded and released Cross Purposes and toured, Bill replaced Bobby for a few gigs at the end of the tour. after that Geezer and Bill left, Neil Murray and Cozy Powell return and they do Forbidden.
    "I want to tell you, yeah
    How Good It Feels
    Sleeping here with you tonight
    And thatís for real"
    -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
      uhh... I don't think so. I've never heard this? who exactly is your source? and Ray didn't fuck up anywhere, one talented guy. Badlands kicks ass. In 94 Sabbath recorded and released Cross Purposes and toured, Bill replaced Bobby for a few gigs at the end of the tour. after that Geezer and Bill left, Neil Murray and Cozy Powell return and they do Forbidden.


      I believe Gardner was speaking about this . Yes he never made the cut with John Sykes in Blue Murder and yes while Badlands debut was great i even own that cd things fell apart fast for that band after that , and where or what did Gillen do after Badlands ?????
      The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
        Heard some members talking about this awhile back . First off looked throu all my books and there was no mention of this anywhere ! Why would Iommi bring Ray back almost 8 years later ? He failed in Blue Murder , fucked up in Badlands ! Wasnt he sick and pretty much out of music by then ~? This would have been another of Tonys many mistakes ! Another slap in Martins face too !
        I seriously doubt this, unless Tony has some ghost whisperer skills I'm not aware off since Ray passed away already in December of 93....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Charger View Post
          I seriously doubt this, unless Tony has some ghost whisperer skills I'm not aware off since Ray passed away already in December of 93....


          Maybe i got my dates wrong but i rememeber pre Cross Purposes perhaps right after Dio left ?
          The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

          Comment


          • #6
            OK found this on wiki:

            After the UK tour was complete, Gillen was officially fired from the band. Lee insisted to the press that the band would continue with singer John West. The band wrote and recorded some new songs, however, Atlantic Records had had enough and dropped the band from their label entirely. Gillen then appeared with George Lynch’s solo band on the album Sacred Groove. Following that, he formed Sun Red Sun with guitarist Al Romano, former Alice in Chains bassist Mike Starr, and drummer Bobby Rondinelli. But, just as the new group was off and running, Gillen was diagnosed with HIV. On December 3, 1993, he died at his New Jersey home due to AIDS-related complications
            **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badlands_(band)

            during Voodoo Highway the band was having issues with their label and disagreements within the band. Ray wanted to record some new stuff he'd written but Lee stated they were "average" and wouldn't record them. Ray said Jake was "a lazy musician", Kerrang interviewed Jake and talked about the problems Badlands were having and later Gillen talked with them in issue 401. And there you have it. Ray did Lynch's album then Sun Red Sun, and then died.
            Last edited by Psycho Man; 01-02-2010, 02:05 PM.
            "I want to tell you, yeah
            How Good It Feels
            Sleeping here with you tonight
            And thatís for real"
            -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

            Comment


            • #7
              Guitarist Al Romano of Sun Red Sun which featured Gillen said in a interview I came across the Iommi did approach Gillen in mid-1993 to rejoin him in Sabbath.

              Kinda like in the Black Sabbath Masters of Reality 3 dvd set in 2008 Bobby Rondinelli said Cozy Powell also to rejoin in 1994. That Cozy was even in rehearsals as Bobby auditioned. According to Bobby, He was told by Iommi to stay out of Cozy's way so he wudnt get the idea he was gonna get replaced. Dont take my word for it, watch the dvd.
              Pain and Poison Roses

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EDTRADER View Post
                Guitarist Al Romano of Sun Red Sun which featured Gillen said in a interview I came across the Iommi did approach Gillen in mid-1993 to rejoin him in Sabbath.

                Kinda like in the Black Sabbath Masters of Reality 3 dvd set in 2008 Bobby Rondinelli said Cozy Powell also to rejoin in 1994. That Cozy was even in rehearsals as Bobby auditioned. According to Bobby, He was told by Iommi to stay out of Cozy's way so he wudnt get the idea he was gonna get replaced. Dont take my word for it, watch the dvd.


                Nothing against Bobby but why would Iommi have both drummers there ? Cozy was and always will be far superior to Bobby ! I always thought that Cozy was involved in Cross Purposes in some aspect , wierd how Iommi lost faith in Cozy so fast , maybe cause Cozy always told it like it was which probably didnt sit well with Iommi !
                The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

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                • #9
                  that sounds like Fenholts story. "I was in Sabbath..."
                  "I want to tell you, yeah
                  How Good It Feels
                  Sleeping here with you tonight
                  And thatís for real"
                  -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

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                  • #10
                    Sure it wasn't talk of Gillan and not Gillen?

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                    • #11
                      if it was Ian then conversation would be very short

                      "Hey ian what are you doing, wanna write with me in Sabbath"
                      "Sorry dude I'm doing shit with Deep Purple"
                      "I want to tell you, yeah
                      How Good It Feels
                      Sleeping here with you tonight
                      And thatís for real"
                      -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A friend of mine was corresponding by letters with Al Romano of Sun Red Sun during the 90s, and it's true Romano told him that, when Tony Iommi contacted Bobby Rondinelli for the spot in Sabbath in early 1993, he also asked Ray Gillen if he wouldn't join back, but Ray was already too sick to accept the job.
                        I think there's a good deal of chance this is true. Back in 1986, Tony had been instantly impressed by Ray's incredible voice, Tony might have been disappointed he never got to release anything with this unbelievable singer. And you have to see that Sabbath at the time were still trying to re-conquer their US audience after the encouraging first step they made with "Dehumanizer". Tony may just have thought that Tony Martin might not be the right singer for it, while Ray, being American and having toured the US during the past five years with Badlands, already had at least a small fan base.

                        Now, regarding the fact that Cozy Powell should have been there for "Cross Purposes", I think there has to be some confusion with the "Forbidden" tour. As far as I know, Bobby Rondinelli has been contacted in early 1993, as soon as it became obvious that Vinny wouldn't do the album. While I was working on writing my book, I've had access to several letters from Tony Martin : In March 1993, he wrote that Vinny should be doing the album with them, but he wasn't sure. In April 1993, he wrote that Vinny wasn't coming back and Bobby had been hired. This doesn't leave a lot of room for Cozy to be there during Bobby's audition. Plus, starting for late february 1993, Cozy was touring with Brian May, and the tour would last until december 1993.

                        I think the story were Bobby was there while Cozy was in the band but Tony Iommi didn't want Cozy to notice him too much fits better in the "Forbidden" time line, when Cozy and Tony were getting on each other's nerves and Tony was waiting for Cozy to leave instead of firing him.

                        Edtrader, I haven't seen the Master of Reality DVD, but you must have misunderstatood, or Bobby made a mistake telling his story (we all do at one point or another )

                        ---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

                        Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
                        that sounds like Fenholts story. "I was in Sabbath..."
                        Well, in Ray's case, he really was !!!
                        Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
                        "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gardener View Post
                          A friend of mine was corresponding by letters with Al Romano of Sun Red Sun during the 90s, and it's true Romano told him that, when Tony Iommi contacted Bobby Rondinelli for the spot in Sabbath in early 1993, he also asked Ray Gillen if he wouldn't join back, but Ray was already too sick to accept the job.
                          I think there's a good deal of chance this is true. Back in 1986, Tony had been instantly impressed by Ray's incredible voice, Tony might have been disappointed he never got to release anything with this unbelievable singer. And you have to see that Sabbath at the time were still trying to re-conquer their US audience after the encouraging first step they made with "Dehumanizer". Tony may just have thought that Tony Martin might not be the right singer for it, while Ray, being American and having toured the US during the past five years with Badlands, already had at least a small fan base.

                          Now, regarding the fact that Cozy Powell should have been there for "Cross Purposes", I think there has to be some confusion with the "Forbidden" tour. As far as I know, Bobby Rondinelli has been contacted in early 1993, as soon as it became obvious that Vinny wouldn't do the album. While I was working on writing my book, I've had access to several letters from Tony Martin : In March 1993, he wrote that Vinny should be doing the album with them, but he wasn't sure. In April 1993, he wrote that Vinny wasn't coming back and Bobby had been hired. This doesn't leave a lot of room for Cozy to be there during Bobby's audition. Plus, starting for late february 1993, Cozy was touring with Brian May, and the tour would last until december 1993.

                          I think the story were Bobby was there while Cozy was in the band but Tony Iommi didn't want Cozy to notice him too much fits better in the "Forbidden" time line, when Cozy and Tony were getting on each other's nerves and Tony was waiting for Cozy to leave instead of firing him.

                          Edtrader, I haven't seen the Master of Reality DVD, but you must have misunderstatood, or Bobby made a mistake telling his story (we all do at one point or another )

                          ---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------



                          Well, in Ray's case, he really was !!!


                          Thanks for clearing that up , knew i wasnt crazy ! So there was a chance of Vinnie on Cross Purposes eh !
                          The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

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                          • #14
                            Wow, I never heard of Tony approaching Ray to come BACK to Sabbath, This is an interesting thread!
                            We donít see things as they are; we see them as we are.

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                            • #15
                              and Mr Encyclopedia clears it up. If only Ray had been a little more patient with Eternal Idol
                              "I want to tell you, yeah
                              How Good It Feels
                              Sleeping here with you tonight
                              And thatís for real"
                              -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                              Comment

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