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  • #16
    Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
    and Mr Encyclopedia clears it up. If only Ray had been a little more patient with Eternal Idol


    Than what ? Its been documented that the man just loved to party and work ethic and or writing skills were subpar at best !
    The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
      Than what ? Its been documented that the man just loved to party and work ethic and or writing skills were subpar at best !
      what are you talking about? He was the one in Badlands pushing for the band to actually do work. Anything I've heard him on rocks my ears.
      "I want to tell you, yeah
      How Good It Feels
      Sleeping here with you tonight
      And thatís for real"
      -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
        what are you talking about? He was the one in Badlands pushing for the band to actually do work. Anything I've heard him on rocks my ears.


        Which would be what 3 ? Badlands cds and some group project that went nowhere , hes not that good ! He quit in 87 , what makes anyone think a effort in 93 ??? would have been any better .
        The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

        Comment


        • #19
          hard to get much better than Eternal Idol, he quit after the album was basically finished he was just tired was the revolving bass and drummer doors. besides Jake and Ray couldn't work things out, thats why Badlands went awry, Dusk was released after Ray passed. Ray had enough talent for Iommi, had he not been sick who know what would've happened.
          "I want to tell you, yeah
          How Good It Feels
          Sleeping here with you tonight
          And thatís for real"
          -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
            He quit in 87 , what makes anyone think a effort in 93 ??? would have been any better .
            What are you talking about ? When Ray quit in 1987, he had finished recording all the vocal parts for months, the drummer had left, the bass player was nowhere to be seen, nobody was getting paid anymore and there was no date announced for the release of the album, which only happened months after he left ! You can't really compare the 1987 situation with 1993. Plus, the fact that Ray thought the band was going nowhere didn't have much to do with his performance on the album that was phenomenal, and you can't really blame the lack of success of Badlands on the talents of Ray or Jake E Lee. Some bands, even if they have gifted players and deliver good music, are just not meant to be. Badlands was one of those. I'm certain that, given the healthier situation of Sabbath following the "Dehumanizer" tour, an album with Ray would have been a bigger success in the US than "Cross Purposes", only because his name was better known than Tony Martin's at the time, at least in the New York and Los Angeles areas.
            Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
            "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Gardener View Post
              What are you talking about ? When Ray quit in 1987, he had finished recording all the vocal parts for months, the drummer had left, the bass player was nowhere to be seen, nobody was getting paid anymore and there was no date announced for the release of the album, which only happened months after he left ! You can't really compare the 1987 situation with 1993. Plus, the fact that Ray thought the band was going nowhere didn't have much to do with his performance on the album that was phenomenal, and you can't really blame the lack of success of Badlands on the talents of Ray or Jake E Lee. Some bands, even if they have gifted players and deliver good music, are just not meant to be. Badlands was one of those. I'm certain that, given the healthier situation of Sabbath following the "Dehumanizer" tour, an album with Ray would have been a bigger success in the US than "Cross Purposes", only because his name was better known than Tony Martin's at the time, at least in the New York and Los Angeles areas.


              Dont want to argue with anyone thats just what i read about him and fact is a fact he quit ! Geezer quit a few times also if i remember . Seems people like quitters .
              The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

              Comment


              • #22
                I don't see your point. Everyone quit at one time or another. Tony quit for Jethro Tull, Ozzy quit after his parents died, Geezer quit in I think 77 for a few weeks
                "I want to tell you, yeah
                How Good It Feels
                Sleeping here with you tonight
                And thatís for real"
                -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
                  I don't see your point. Everyone quit at one time or another. Tony quit for Jethro Tull, Ozzy quit after his parents died, Geezer quit in I think 77 for a few weeks


                  Seems that just because Ray was a "member " for a bit we have to break out the pom poms and praise him , i just feel he lacked what it took to be a productive member of the band , so i feel that he was not a real great singer but a ok stand in for a then fucked up Glenn Hughes , trying not to get of topic here so i leave it as that im not a big fan of Mr. Gillen ! Im glad he didnt return to the band . Sorry to offend anyone here just my opinion !
                  The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    What does being a productive member have to do with being a great singer? The throat and brain are very different. And evidently Tony was so impressed that after Ray took over for Glenn they began working on Eternal Idol. They worked on the album from October of 86 until March of 87 at which point they had a stellar album. IMO he's a very productive member, he laid down a foundation for Tony Martin's career.
                    "I want to tell you, yeah
                    How Good It Feels
                    Sleeping here with you tonight
                    And thatís for real"
                    -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
                      What does being a productive member have to do with being a great singer? The throat and brain are very different. And evidently Tony was so impressed that after Ray took over for Glenn they began working on Eternal Idol. They worked on the album from October of 86 until March of 87 at which point they had a stellar album. IMO he's a very productive member, he laid down a foundation for Tony Martin's career.


                      If im not mistaken Mr. Martin was considered in 86 also !

                      ---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------

                      Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
                      What does being a productive member have to do with being a great singer? The throat and brain are very different. And evidently Tony was so impressed that after Ray took over for Glenn they began working on Eternal Idol. They worked on the album from October of 86 until March of 87 at which point they had a stellar album. IMO he's a very productive member, he laid down a foundation for Tony Martin's career.


                      And i said i dont think hes was a great singer ,

                      ---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------

                      Originally posted by Psycho Man View Post
                      What does being a productive member have to do with being a great singer? The throat and brain are very different. And evidently Tony was so impressed that after Ray took over for Glenn they began working on Eternal Idol. They worked on the album from October of 86 until March of 87 at which point they had a stellar album. IMO he's a very productive member, he laid down a foundation for Tony Martin's career.


                      They had working demos !
                      The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
                        They had working demos !
                        The album was essentially finished
                        "I want to tell you, yeah
                        How Good It Feels
                        Sleeping here with you tonight
                        And thatís for real"
                        -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
                          They had working demos !
                          strange then that it sounded better than the "finished" product.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Gardener, I went back to the DVD and watched to make sure Bobby was talkng about Cross Purposes 1994, and he was. I didnt misunderstand what he said. Now weither Bobby is correct on his statement or not is on him.
                            Last edited by EDTRADER; 01-04-2010, 12:18 AM.
                            Pain and Poison Roses

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by devilmaycare View Post
                              strange then that it sounded better than the "finished" product.


                              To each his own !
                              The worst Sabbath era , is when theres NO Sabbath era !

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gregory House View Post
                                They had working demos !
                                Considering the fact that after Ray left, the only things left before releasing the album have been for Tony Martin to re-record the vocals and then for Chris Tsangerides to mix it (Bev Bevan only played cymbals on "The Scarlet Pimpernel"), these were not working demos, but the actual album. Had Ray not left before the album was released, what he recorded then would have been the final product.
                                Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
                                "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

                                Comment

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