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  • Better debut album - zep or sab?

    Well, whatta ya think, who had the better debut album, Zep or Sabbath.. and don't think Iommi wasn't thinking of Communication Breakdown when they needed a 2 and half min song for Paranoid! Some pretty evil stuff in that first Zep record, Dazed And Confused is quite Satanic sounding, both great albums, was there ever a better singer than Mr. Plant? His voice is scary good. I'd have to flip a coin and go over time to decide this one, love 'em both!
    Last edited by Wicked Cricket; 01-26-2011, 07:08 AM.
    "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
    R. Blackmore

  • #2
    Sabbath all the way - I've never really cared too much for Zeppelin aside from a handful of songs. I just think that there were number of more unique and better acts in the 70īs. That is bit irrelevant of course, but I just find Zep to be a little overrated, even if one can't deny their influence. But maybe the problme isn't that Zep is overrated, but the other bands are underrated And a far as Plant goes, he isn't too high on my list, especially his live renditions were quite shaky. And it really bugs me how much they have plagiarized over the years, even if it's not that unusual to "borrow" some short chord progressions and etc. But the likes of intro to the Immigrant Song isn't exactly borrowing from Lucifers Friend (the track Ride the Sky, to be specific).

    And yes, Dazed and Confused is a good cover : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsvs-pAGDc
    Last edited by -E5150 StarWanderer-; 01-26-2011, 07:25 AM.
    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

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    • #3
      Wow, Jake Holmes! Never heard of him or this, amazing... Zep sure "stole" alot from old blues and other acts for sure... what are th esong writing credits on the Zep album? I'd be shocked if it didn't say J. Holmes, otherwise he'd have grounds for a huge plagerism suite.
      "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
      R. Blackmore

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      • #4
        well that's a good question. i'm a huge fan of both, 2 favorite bands, as you can tell by my sign in name. both albums are great. yes the first zep album has a few covers on it, but they made them their own. and i didn't know about the sabbath cover until recently, you can always learn something new. i'd have to call it a tie, and i think the 1st zep album is actually underrated-could be their best.

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        • #5
          Well, Mr Holmes filed a law suite as recently as last June, 41 yrs later, here's the story... apparently rumor is he sold the rights to Page, but I guess the court will have to decide. For the record, the Yardbirds were playing back before Zep, it was called "I'm Confused" back then, slightly diff. lyrics, but complete with Page's violin bow tachniques.

          http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/29/led-ze...jake-holmes/8/
          Last edited by Wicked Cricket; 01-26-2011, 09:17 AM.
          "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
          R. Blackmore

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          • #6
            Oh no, this is a real cliff-hanger, Wicked.

            I'm too lazy to explain in any length, the reasons regarding my choice here. Suffice to say that, as with the bands themselves, I reckon I slightly prefer the eponymous Zeppelin debut to the eponymous Sabbath one. Song for song, and in its entirety, the Led Zeppelin album wows me a bit more than Black Sabbath does.
            "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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            • #7
              Good question Wicked. This is easy for me, Sabbath all the way. I feel exactly like E5150, I am not a big Zeppelin fan except a handful of songs. I love John Paul Jones and John Bonham but am not a fan of Plant and Page.

              I think almost the entire first album was old blues standards actually. Didn't they basically "borrow" the whole album?


              • ""Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."

              • "Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song

              • "Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.

              • "Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."

              • "How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."

              So out of 9 songs on the first Zeppelin album 2 were already credited as covers and 5 were "borrowed" that would leave 2 original compositions, Good Times Bad Times & Your Time is Gonna Come. That is pretty amazing!!

              Sabbath all the way. It was more original and innovative. The truth is (and it pisses of Plant) is that Sabbath's legacy has been way more impactful on music over the last 40 years than Zeppelin's even though Zep has crushed them in sales.
              Religion won't save me
              The damage is done
              The future has ended
              Before it's begun
              - Damaged Soul - Black Sabbath

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              • #8
                Wow, it seems like it took Zep about 2 and half albums ot start forging their own music style.. that really surprises me, after all these years I didn't think there was anything about either of these 2 bands I didn't know. I'm now realizing that Sabbath was the more "original" sounding of the 2, where before I thought it was pretty even...
                "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                R. Blackmore

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                • #9
                  This is a no-brainer for me, Black Sabbath wins completely. Sabbath has just always been more interesting to me. Zep are good and everything but they are a little bit too much hearts-and-flowers-and-hello-girls for my taste. The first album was rather primal (which is a good thing) but for me there is just always a twinge of sickly-sweetness about Zeppelin. There is a lot to admire about them but my taste is more for Sabbath.

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                  • #10
                    Led Zeppelin 1 is one of only two albums by Zeppelin I like, but damn if it is not a mighty fine one. I might say Sabbath's still though, but only because of them being a better band.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RLP4ever View Post
                      Oh no, this is a real cliff-hanger, Wicked.

                      I'm too lazy to explain in any length, the reasons regarding my choice here. Suffice to say that, as with the bands themselves, I reckon I slightly prefer the eponymous Zeppelin debut to the eponymous Sabbath one. Song for song, and in its entirety, the Led Zeppelin album wows me a bit more than Black Sabbath does.
                      Pretty much how I feel. However I will say that the song Black Sabbath is the best song on either album IMO.
                      "Dumb Ass" Red Foreman That 70's Show

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                      • #12
                        Love Led Zep, really great band, but Black Sabbath all the way! That debut album from the Sabs truly is in IMO a Masterpiece! Dazed and Confused is one of my favourite songs of all time, great to get stoned to!

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                        • #13
                          My three favorite albums of all time are the first three Sabbath albums, so of course Black Sabbath gets my vote. I'm not QUITE sure about the original UK pressing because it has Evil Woman, but the original US version doesn't even have ONE second of filler on it (Paranoid has the drum solo in Rat Salad and Master of Reality has Embryo and Orchid). I even love every second of the long guitar solo in Warning. Now that most modern editions have both Evil Woman and Wicked World, I could go either way. Is Evil Woman filler? I still enjoy it, even it is by far the weakest on the album.

                          Having said all that, Zep 1 is a great album as well, and was a great milestone for heavy music. Probably the only album before it that could be argued as heavier is Blue Cheer's Vincebus Eruptum. But I'd have to listen to both side by side.
                          Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

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                          • #14
                            Black Sabbath, Heavy, fresh, and highly original. Zeppelin is great however.
                            http://wickedinquisition.bandcamp.com/

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                            • #15
                              I basically completely agree with E5150's post near the top of this thread. For example, there's only 2 songs I like on LZ's 4th album, The Battle of Evermore and Stairway to Heaven. Between BS and LZ's debut albums, BS takes the prize IMO.

                              Icy Sun wrote: Black Sabbath gets my vote...the original US version doesn't even have ONE second of filler on it (Paranoid has the drum solo in Rat Salad and Master of Reality has Embryo and Orchid).

                              I don't consider Orchid nor the drum solo in Rat Salad to be filler at all, and Embryo is only 30 seconds long. The extended guitar solo in Warning is great but IMO not superior to the aforementioned drum solo nor the instrumentals on MOR.

                              Ted

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