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  • BACK TO EDEN, sorry, but you are mistaken - 'Scarlet Pimpernel' from "Eternal Idol" is a piece of pure classical music, belonging to waltz in its entirety. Whereas 'Heaven and Hell' enters the classical realm (waltz, too) only in its finale, when Tony switches over to acoustic guitar. Tony is definitely fond of playing waltz - lend an ear to 'Hole in the 'Sky', and you'll recognize a similar thing in the song's basic measure (I call it “heretical waltz”). Tony is a brilliant, highly versatile composer, covering a lot of various genres, including classical music, jazz and stuff. That's why most of those who are mainly into traditional heavy metal hate such Black Sabbath albums as "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die" (though Ozzy hates "Sabotage" too - not only those two masterpieces).
    :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

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    • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
      The Listen moderator , your thoughts on the latest Sabbath gem - "How Good It Is"
      Echoes of Rock'n'Roll Angel, Supertzar and the intro to Methademic, also has some of that Western-esque atmosphere found in Zeitgeist. Runs the gamut of atmosphere in a way that only Iommi can produce!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SweetSymptom View Post
        Echoes of Rock'n'Roll Angel, Supertzar and the intro to Methademic, also has some of that Western-esque atmosphere found in Zeitgeist. Runs the gamut of atmosphere in a way that only Iommi can produce!
        Excellent thoughts my good brother , and SPOT ON even!!


        Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
        BACK TO EDEN, sorry, but you are mistaken - 'Scarlet Pimpernel' from "Eternal Idol" is a piece of pure classical music, belonging to waltz in its entirety. Whereas 'Heaven and Hell' enters the classical realm (waltz, too) only in its finale, when Tony switches over to acoustic guitar. Tony is definitely fond of playing waltz - lend an ear to 'Hole in the 'Sky', and you'll recognize a similar thing in the song's basic measure (I call it “heretical waltz”). Tony is a brilliant, highly versatile composer, covering a lot of various genres, including classical music, jazz and stuff. That's why most of those who are mainly into traditional heavy metal hate such Black Sabbath albums as "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die" (though Ozzy hates "Sabotage" too - not only those two masterpieces).
        No doubt my good brother , "classical" representation can be found throughout the Sabbath cannon , from the "debut" (Sleeping Village - Carl Heinrich Maria Orff ) through "13" (Methademic - Gustav Mahler) ,, I can list 109 true examples found throughout the 27 studio releases ,,, not including scales used exclusively as "tone setters" in multiple other tracks and bridges ...... and of course my top ten all time favorite track , "Scarlet Pimpernel" and the 'Canon in D' phenomenon ...... BUT ,,,

        IN NO WAY , do ANY of these even touch the "classical" representation given to us by "Heaven n Hell" ,,, Sabbath have dangled in 'composition' before , "Spiral Architect" - "The Writ" , only to create "classical" shades of "epic" composing ,, with "Scarlet" we get a near perfect example of a 'Capriccio' - with minor shades - meets 'Espressivo' ,,,, BUT , my goodness with "Heaven n Hell" , Sabbath write a 'classical masterpiece' , in form , structure , music theory and composition ,, absolutely there hierarchy of "classical" representation - it is Black Sabbath's "Bolero" , it even "best" this piece of music not just in scale but in pace - it delivers a true "Fortissimo" opening , touched upon - in shades - with the track "Snowblind" (a majestic masterpiece) , but satisfied and truly realized with "Heaven n Hell" - THE Sabbath "classical" 'number' , from opening to closing.

        That "Fortissimo" leads itself to an astonishingly placed "ostinato" , the likes found in the very best classical choral and composition pieces ,, Sabbath sustains this phenomenon 3 different times in this "perfect" piece of music - matched only in the classical realm (to this degree) by the British composer Elgar - Sabbath pull this off while encapsulating it within a never ending "crescendo" ie) Ravel's orchestral masterpiece "Bolero" .... absolutely insane song writing here.

        And where Ravel accomplished this scale with basically one "ostinato" (that's what makes it great though) - Sabbath do it with 3 different , and one twice , all while building a harmonic "cresendo" - it's flat out astonishing ,,, true classical music in what's called a "piece" , is represented by a "beginning" , "middle" and "end" - Sabbath not only give us this with the "intro" - "Fortissimo" , sustained "ostinato" , building "cresendo" , they top this piece with a perfect conclusion , the likes seen only in "Rock n Roll Angel" before or since , a statement tempo changing classical "coda" that gives goosebumps.

        Ya Sabbath's 'superman' representation of "classical" 'scale' and 'piece' resides on side one , track 4 , of there 1980 studio album - with a 6 minute , 57 second little "ditty" , called HEAVEN N HELL.


        Great thoughts brother Prgonaut , great read even , thank you for that.


        God Bless SabbaKnites!!

        Comment


        • Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law

          Comment


          • Many thanks for the kind words, brother. ‘Heaven and Hell’ is indeed one of the greatest compositions by the band (a real trump in the album’s sleeve ), and there are two more excellent compositions, ‘Die Young’ and ‘Children of the Sea’. On the other hand, there are also such tasteless AOR-like songs as ‘Wishing Well’ and ‘Walk Away’, plus there is ‘Lady Evil’, which is a pretty mediocre hard-rocker, both musically and lyrically. Either way, “Heaven & Hell” is the most inconsequent and contrasting album in Black Sabbath’s discography, so it is difficult for me to perceive it otherwise than as a collection of killers and fillers (you get the idea). Personally, I much more prefer “Mob Rules” and “The Devil You Know”, let alone “Dehumanizer”. After all, tastes differ...
            Last edited by Progonaut; 02-23-2017, 11:37 AM.
            :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
              Many thanks for the kind words, brother. ‘Heaven and Hell’ is indeed one of the greatest compositions by the band (a real trump in the album’s sleeve ), and there are two more excellent compositions, ‘Die Young’ and ‘Children of the Sea’. On the other hand, there are also such tasteless AOR-like songs as ‘Wishing Well’ and ‘Walk Away’, plus there is ‘Lady Evil’, which is a pretty mediocre hard-rocker, both musically and lyrically. Either way, “Heaven & Hell” is the most inconsequent and contrasting album in Black Sabbath’s discography, so it is difficult for me to perceive it otherwise than as a collection of killers and fillers (you get the idea). Personally, I much more prefer “Mob Rules” and “The Devil You Know”, let alone “Dehumanizer”. After all, tastes differ...
              H&H is half killer and half filler.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                Excellent thoughts my good brother , and SPOT ON even!!




                No doubt my good brother , "classical" representation can be found throughout the Sabbath cannon , from the "debut" (Sleeping Village - Carl Heinrich Maria Orff ) through "13" (Methademic - Gustav Mahler) ,, I can list 109 true examples found throughout the 27 studio releases ,,, not including scales used exclusively as "tone setters" in multiple other tracks and bridges ...... and of course my top ten all time favorite track , "Scarlet Pimpernel" and the 'Canon in D' phenomenon ...... BUT ,,,

                IN NO WAY , do ANY of these even touch the "classical" representation given to us by "Heaven n Hell" ,,, Sabbath have dangled in 'composition' before , "Spiral Architect" - "The Writ" , only to create "classical" shades of "epic" composing ,, with "Scarlet" we get a near perfect example of a 'Capriccio' - with minor shades - meets 'Espressivo' ,,,, BUT , my goodness with "Heaven n Hell" , Sabbath write a 'classical masterpiece' , in form , structure , music theory and composition ,, absolutely there hierarchy of "classical" representation - it is Black Sabbath's "Bolero" , it even "best" this piece of music not just in scale but in pace - it delivers a true "Fortissimo" opening , touched upon - in shades - with the track "Snowblind" (a majestic masterpiece) , but satisfied and truly realized with "Heaven n Hell" - THE Sabbath "classical" 'number' , from opening to closing.

                That "Fortissimo" leads itself to an astonishingly placed "ostinato" , the likes found in the very best classical choral and composition pieces ,, Sabbath sustains this phenomenon 3 different times in this "perfect" piece of music - matched only in the classical realm (to this degree) by the British composer Elgar - Sabbath pull this off while encapsulating it within a never ending "crescendo" ie) Ravel's orchestral masterpiece "Bolero" .... absolutely insane song writing here.

                And where Ravel accomplished this scale with basically one "ostinato" (that's what makes it great though) - Sabbath do it with 3 different , and one twice , all while building a harmonic "cresendo" - it's flat out astonishing ,,, true classical music in what's called a "piece" , is represented by a "beginning" , "middle" and "end" - Sabbath not only give us this with the "intro" - "Fortissimo" , sustained "ostinato" , building "cresendo" , they top this piece with a perfect conclusion , the likes seen only in "Rock n Roll Angel" before or since , a statement tempo changing classical "coda" that gives goosebumps.

                Ya Sabbath's 'superman' representation of "classical" 'scale' and 'piece' resides on side one , track 4 , of there 1980 studio album - with a 6 minute , 57 second little "ditty" , called HEAVEN N HELL.


                Great thoughts brother Prgonaut , great read even , thank you for that.


                God Bless SabbaKnites!!
                fascinating read. Do you think sabbath actually knew they were doing these classical pieces of work? I'm not deaf to iommi's classical pieces but I did not realise it was so strong in his playing throughout the different eras. I must get back to you on the born again album too.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oh lord yeah! View Post
                  fascinating read. Do you think sabbath actually knew they were doing these classical pieces of work? I'm not deaf to iommi's classical pieces but I did not realise it was so strong in his playing throughout the different eras. I must get back to you on the born again album too.
                  Doc left this for you a few pages back,
                  "@Oh Lord Yeah , what did your exploration into Born Again reveal to you on your day off ..... Down by the River , "was there magic in YOUR music" , as you ate raw liver!"

                  Originally posted by Thelemech View Post
                  \m/
                  How are you bud?

                  Comment


                  • Hey ronn - I am OK - coping. How are you??? Hope all is well with you and yours bud!
                    Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Thelemech View Post
                      Hey ronn - I am OK - coping. How are you??? Hope all is well with you and yours bud!
                      I hope so bud, your a good guy!
                      I'm real good, the boards have a lot of new good members
                      Looks like a bunch of other members left bso

                      Comment


                      • Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oh lord yeah! View Post
                          H&H is half killer and half filler.
                          Yeah, H&H is a mixture of killers and fillers. Was it Heaven or Hell that prescribed it to me, I don't know, but it is not a drug - "Born Again" is! I have instantly got a passion for that album.
                          Last edited by Progonaut; 02-25-2017, 10:37 AM.
                          :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

                          Comment


                          • "Maybe if we CRY together , Maybe if we CRY as ONE , the tears that fall can KILL the fire , and SAVE everyone ....." - one of the most sensational lines EVER!

                            .... Chapter 11 of "The Listen" part 2 , IOMMI , finished today at 6 p.m. ,, Chapter 12 of "The Listen" part 2 , TDYK (My goodness what an FN album!!!!!) , started today at 6:01 p.m. ,,,, such an amazing moment ,, think about it - 5 years , 8 months ago at 7:15 p.m. "The Listen" part 1 began with TDYK , 39 chapters and a 2nd part later , here we are again .... ATOM AND FN EVIL!!!!!!!


                            Originally posted by ronn View Post
                            I hope so bud, your a good guy!
                            I'm real good, the boards have a lot of new good members
                            Looks like a bunch of other members left bso
                            No doubt brother Ronn , BSO has been as good as ever , great to have all these new members .... and YES brother THEL is an excellent Guy!


                            To answer a few fast ?'s ,,,, yes "NightFall" and "The Straightener" are 2 distinguished , distinctive pieces , they are intended to be .... One held its name , the other was dropped , both are 2 of The Sab's best moments.

                            If Sab is to release a bonus track with the new DVD / CD , it would be part of studio album #27 , "13".

                            When IOMMI puts out the new Martin Deluxe projects , each track will be part of each separate album / chapter (HC , TYR , CP , FORBIDDEN) .... most likely , depending on the track # , otherwise the new material would make up Sabbath studio album 28.

                            When and if IOMMI gets back together with Glenn , Ken and MikeX , that would definitively be Sabbath Studio Release #28 or 29 (depending on the Martin material) , very exciting!!


                            Originally posted by oh lord yeah! View Post
                            fascinating read. Do you think sabbath actually knew they were doing these classical pieces of work? I'm not deaf to iommi's classical pieces but I did not realise it was so strong in his playing throughout the different eras. I must get back to you on the born again album too.
                            Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                            Yeah, H&H is a mixture of killers and fillers. Was it Heaven or Hell that prescribed it to me, I don't know, but it is not a drug - "Born Again" is! I have instantly got a passion for that album.
                            Thanks guys!! .... need to Def send you guys a copy of the "Heaven n Hell" I own , not a filler in sight! ... but do love the love for Born Again!!


                            Must add , Sabbath has what's called a "cumulative effect" ,, all 27 albums MAJORLY effect each others ratings .... anyone on BSO understand this ? ? , SWEET - anyone ? ? - simply put , without one , the others are not even remotely the same as they are with ALL (crazy right? , BUT A FACT)!

                            EXAMPLE , #24 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath , #9 Heaven n Hell and not rated yet Born Again (obviously rated above both) .... ONLY FALL WHERE THEY DO , BECAUSE OF THE OTHER 24 and EACH OTHERS effect on the other 24 ..... make sense? ,,,,

                            Furthermore , if ONLY #24 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath , #9 Heaven n Hell , and not rated yet Born Again - existed without the other 24 ,,,, in other words , Sabbath had only 3 studio albums instead of 27 ,,, "Born Again" would be an amazing #3 , "Heaven n Hell" would be a genre changing #2 , and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath would be an astounding #1 .... but , that's not the case.


                            OK , let me unbiased-ly rate each track on the GENRE CHANGING "HEAVEN N HELL" ..... Black Sabbath has 27 "side-ones" , 24 "side-twos" , 1 "side-three" and 1 "side-four" - if we took ALL 53 Sabbath Album Sides ,, Heaven n Hell side one would have very few equals .....

                            But , let's just take side ones , Paranoid side one almost rivals it , NSD side one almost rivals it , Fused side one almost rivals it , IOMMI side one equals it , Born Again side one equals it , Sabotage side one barely surpasses it .... HEAVEN N HELL SIDE ONE IS THAT FRIGGIN GOOD , take any of those first 4 tracks away , and near perfection would fail , Sabbath are that brilliant!

                            1) Neon Knights - the perfect opening to a new genre setting Era - a perfect TEN!

                            2) COTS - EPIC!! - a perfect TEN!

                            3) Lady Evil - Sensational track 3 , in fact a top 7 track 3 for the Sabbath cannon , has it ALL! - a TEN!

                            4) Heaven n Hell - seriously? - the definition of a TEN!

                            **** OK , that was an unbiased rating of side 1 ,, and the two "best" songs have yet to make an appearance .....

                            5) Wishing Well - Sabbath has NEVER been better , Geezer and Bill deliver what may be there best moment , DIO is outer worldly , the lyrics are impeccable , and Iommi is brilliant .... this track is straight from the 70's meet the new regime , the most 70's sounding Dio Era track ever recorded ,, after 9 albums Sabbath delivered the 11th (4th if counting just the first 9 albums) best track in there entire catalog - A PERFECT TEN!

                            6) Die Young - need I say more? ,, you will be hard pressed to find Sabbath at a higher talent level than right here..... TEN!

                            7) Walk Away - My goodness Bill FN Ward , Sabbath's most catchy DIO ERA track EVER , and by FAR! .... the mid section is to live for!! ,, Diversity , Diversity , Diversity .... a TEN!

                            8) .... "Wishing Well" was the best Dio Era track - til right now ,, til the best non-Dehumanizer Dio Era track of ALL time , the 7th best Sabbath track of ALL time , arrives in the form of .... not "OVER N OVER" - though a MASTERPIECE in its own right ,, but LONELY IS THE WORD!! - let's be honest , has Sabbath really ever been better ?? ,,,,, A perfect TEN!!

                            - There you have it , Heaven n Hell , as good as it gets ,, Black muther friggin Sabbath!!


                            God Bless , Doc
                            Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 02-25-2017, 07:02 PM. Reason: TDYK AMAZING!!!!!!#

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                            • Cough cough cough cough cough cough..... sweet leaf begins. Iommi smokes

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                              • Originally posted by OIM View Post
                                Cough cough cough cough cough cough..... sweet leaf begins. Iommi smokes


                                Brother OIM , very few moments equal that moment right there .... MOR has yet to make itself known ,,,,, be blessed my political brother , Love ya .... Doc

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