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  • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    6) BORN AGAIN (Studio Album #11) - Certified masterpiece , the album that made Sabbath the ultimate band of all time .... A machine of greatness , that would NEVER stop moving forward , and never did! ,,,,, Riff after Riff , track after track - Born Again gave Sabbath a unique moment in time , most bands can only dream of .... the endless riff to "Zero the Hero" , is the ultimate example of the Sabbath life expectancy - nothing can stop it!
    You've hit the nail on the head, Doc! Indeed... What was “Born Again” (compared to any of the band’s previous albums) if not Sabbathopower in *yet* another form, this time totally unbridled and savage, but still acting in accordance with the band’s nature? While there is nothing “classical” on the album – even a fleeting smell of chamber music – it’s an absolute masterpiece, Ian Gillan’s singing on "Born Again" being a pinnacle of his entire career, including (just logically:-) “Jesus Christ Superstar”, Deep Purple and his solo work! Although the lyrics are quite atypical of Black Sabbath, the album is good in this respect too.
    :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

    Comment


    • Hey Doc!! Headless Cross is the greatest non Ozzy or Dio Sabbath album IMHO!!! Almost a perfect record, the only negative I think is that Tony Martin was a little (OK a lot) overdoing the Satan aspect of Sabbath.


      Hope that you and yours are well - God Bless you good Doctor!!
      Last edited by Thelemech; 03-16-2017, 03:39 AM.
      Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
        Good stuff Ronn - thank you! ,,, but ya - no doubt - Roller has his points , always.
        I know the doc's sources are pretty reliable but I took a step back and thought about it, and having had some experience writing music, lyrics and working with others on the same, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing anyone would do (naming one half of the same movement), but I wouldn't rule anything out.

        Plus it's always possible Sabbath was trolling whoever asked them about it.

        Doc I got your message, thanks!

        Comment


        • For what it's worth, all known versions of Sleeping Village and Warning tend to flow into each other. Feel like the same piece to me, but that's just my $0.02.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SweetSymptom View Post
            For what it's worth, all known versions of Sleeping Village and Warning tend to flow into each other. Feel like the same piece to me, but that's just my $0.02.
            I should have clarified that I was referring to A Bit of Finger.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Thelemech View Post
              Headless Cross is the greatest non Ozzy or Dio Sabbath album IMHO!!! Almost a perfect record, the only negative I think is that Tony Martin was a little (OK a lot) overdoing the Satan aspect of Sabbath.
              Now IMHO: 1 to 4: "SBS', "S_age", "TE", "NSD" (strictly in chronological order), 5. "The Eternal Idol", 6. "Headless Cross", 7. "Dehumanizer"...
              :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

              Comment


              • 2 thoughts that ran through a Doc's head :

                1) ROCK N ROLL ANGEL , is not only one of the most sensational tracks ever established ,, it's all about , CHRIST JESUS EMMANUEL!

                2) ".... I wish I could remember what I've Done!" .... How Ronnie says "Done!" in BIBLE BLACK , is astoundingly amazing.


                3 QUESTIONS , for those who would kindly answer :

                1) Is Dio's voice more impressive during "Breaking into Heaven" , than it is during "Stargazer" ,, especially at his age ....

                2) FOLLOW THE TEARS or DEAR FATHER ,, the more impressive track would be ....

                3) Ozzy Era 10 studio releases (one a double album) OR if you prefer , Ozzy Era 9.10 (9 releases , 10 extra tracks) ..... Dio Era 5 studio releases OR if you prefer , Dio Era 4.3 ,,,, EVERY track from both eras , are pure quality of the highest order ,,,,, but in comparison , is the Dio Era more so , with less available material , or is the Ozzy Era just too strong ....


                Originally posted by Vynlsol View Post
                Zumbi needs to post more! Doing well out here, we had about a dusting worth of snow this morning, business is booming, and Sabbath records keep spinning!




                Hahaha , love it! ..... "business is booming" - You so deserve it , can I call you a millionaire my brother! ..... "Sabbath records keep spinning" - Somewhere in my last 8 "listen" post , can't remember what it was , I had asked all audiophiles to listen to something , lol - did you ....


                Originally posted by SweetSymptom View Post
                That would be most interesting to hear, as a 'companion piece' to the album, if you will.

                That ranking lines up roughly with my own. Admittedly it's been a while since I've heard The Innocence. But that Iommi slow blues, combined with Hughes' ever soulful singing on 'Slip Away', and the riff monster that is 'Let it Down Easy'. Such compositions, most bands would kill to have as album tracks, let alone bonus tracks. Iommi just melds his style effortlessly around whoever he works with. But with Hughes it's not surprising. Seventh Star, Eighth Star, DEP Sessions and Fused. What a run!
                Brother SWEET , let me emphasize , for the longest time "The Innocence" was my favorite of the 3 , and has only gotten BETTER .... the other 2 just happened to get better quicker .... give that track a spin right away! .... great post by the way!


                Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                You've hit the nail on the head, Doc! Indeed... What was “Born Again” (compared to any of the band’s previous albums) if not Sabbathopower in *yet* another form, this time totally unbridled and savage, but still acting in accordance with the band’s nature? While there is nothing “classical” on the album – even a fleeting smell of chamber music – it’s an absolute masterpiece, Ian Gillan’s singing on "Born Again" being a pinnacle of his entire career, including (just logically:-) “Jesus Christ Superstar”, Deep Purple and his solo work! Although the lyrics are quite atypical of Black Sabbath, the album is good in this respect too.
                Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                Now IMHO: 1 to 4: "SBS', "S_age", "TE", "NSD" (strictly in chronological order), 5. "The Eternal Idol", 6. "Headless Cross", 7. "Dehumanizer"...
                Excellent thoughts in both post! ,, and 3 of your top 7 are in a battle for the Sabbath Legacy top 5!!


                Originally posted by Thelemech View Post
                Hey Doc!! Headless Cross is the greatest non Ozzy or Dio Sabbath album IMHO!!! Almost a perfect record, the only negative I think is that Tony Martin was a little (OK a lot) overdoing the Satan aspect of Sabbath.


                Hope that you and yours are well - God Bless you good Doctor!!
                You also kind brother!! ,, and I truly appreciate your love for "Headless Cross" ,, as for the lyrics , they help make this album extremely special ,, just like the production on "Born Again" - it just adds to it!


                Originally posted by Rollerjoint View Post
                I know the doc's sources are pretty reliable but I took a step back and thought about it, and having had some experience writing music, lyrics and working with others on the same, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing anyone would do (naming one half of the same movement), but I wouldn't rule anything out.

                Plus it's always possible Sabbath was trolling whoever asked them about it.

                Doc I got your message, thanks!
                Originally posted by Rollerjoint View Post
                I should have clarified that I was referring to A Bit of Finger.
                A bit of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning ,, the "magic" of the early Sabbath ..... let me make everything clear for my readers here on "The Listen" , as we push toward a million reads - if Roller says it , bank on it!

                As Roller , I have written and studied music for my entire life ,,, a track without multiple movements can most certainly have multiple titles designed to map out different time points .... a one minute song that never changes , can easily have 3 titles (in classical music and some jazz , more common than you may think - and Iommi carried these subtitle ideas from these genre's) ... just because there is an opening title , even with zero change in "sound" - does not mean there is no middle and end to that same sound ,,, and in the case of "A bit of Finger / Sleeping Village" - the lyrics do introduce a NEW sound (tho the same movement remains).

                "A bit of Finger" is 21 seconds , "Sleeping Village" carrying "A bit of Finger" is 54 seconds .... "Warning" carrying what many call the back section of "Sleeping Village" (2 minutes and 55 seconds) expands the "Warning" from its posted 10 minutes and 28 second time slot , to its original "jam" orientation of 13 minutes and 23 seconds .... much like when Roller made that fantastic observation about "The Elegy" - would we say that subtitle expands the entire 5 minutes 25 seconds of "After Forever" or would it own a small time slot , at its origin point only.

                UNDERSTAND THIS , what Roller presents against what I'm stating , is much more common thought and solid ground : "A bit of Finger" is the opening 'Jews Harp' (or just nothing) , "Sleeping Village" is 3 minutes 46 seconds , and the first of '3 parts' of the "Warning" opens with Geezer's bass as the vibrato fades giving us a 10 minute 28 second total time slot .... would pass the Sabbath litmus test before what I'm stating as fact (and what I'm stating - IS).

                In other words , if your presented with door A "Doc" and door B "Roller" ... and a homeless man's lottery ticket is on the line .... let the man buy a house , and pick door B!


                God Bless

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                  Brother SWEET , let me emphasize , for the longest time "The Innocence" was my favorite of the 3 , and has only gotten BETTER .... the other 2 just happened to get better quicker .... give that track a spin right away! .... great post by the way!
                  Hey Doc, sometimes those sleeper tracks are hidden like that for a reason, and the few that seek them out understand how good they are! I'll give it a spin right away!

                  I'll think about those questions and post answers after some listening.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SweetSymptom View Post
                    For what it's worth, all known versions of Sleeping Village and Warning tend to flow into each other. Feel like the same piece to me, but that's just my $0.02.
                    I agree
                    it's one and the same

                    Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                    Now IMHO: 1 to 4: "SBS', "S_age", "TE", "NSD" (strictly in chronological order), 5. "The Eternal Idol", 6. "Headless Cross", 7. "Dehumanizer"...
                    The Eternal Idol title track was it ever played live?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ronn View Post
                      The Eternal Idol title track was it ever played live?
                      'The Eternal Idol' sans 'The"? Never.
                      :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                        3 QUESTIONS , for those who would kindly answer :

                        1) Is Dio's voice more impressive during "Breaking into Heaven" , than it is during "Stargazer" ,, especially at his age ....

                        2) FOLLOW THE TEARS or DEAR FATHER ,, the more impressive track would be ....

                        3) Ozzy Era 10 studio releases (one a double album) OR if you prefer , Ozzy Era 9.10 (9 releases , 10 extra tracks) ..... Dio Era 5 studio releases OR if you prefer , Dio Era 4.3 ,,,, EVERY track from both eras , are pure quality of the highest order ,,,,, but in
                        comparison , is the Dio Era more so , with less available material , or is the Ozzy Era just too strong ....

                        ...and 3 of your top 7 are in a battle for the Sabbath Legacy top 5!!

                        1) His voice is very impressive in both cases. But, considering his age, I vote for the song from "TDYK".

                        2) IMO, 'Follow the Tears' and 'Dear Father' (my favorite track from "13") are equally impressive. But otherwise "The Devil You Know" is in every respect better than "13" – musically and lyrically alike, plus there is 'Bible Black', the best Black Sabbath composition since 1989.

                        3) The eight albums the band released during the ‘70s are each much more important (I didn’t say “interesting”) than any of the subsequent ones, regardless of the ‘era’, and it doesn’t matter at all that - just for instance - I find “Mob Rules” (or “Born Again” or “The Eternal Idol” or even “Seventh Star”) to be better than “Paranoid”. What has been said means we would have never known how our Sabbath was great! Our favorite Brummies would have never become #1 metal band of all time, et cetera and so on! Everything (yeah, everything) that Metal is known and famed for, including all its subgenres without exception, is rooted in that very era of Black Sabbath’s legacy, whatever people would say!

                        4) Dear Doc, I think your fave (#1) Black Sabbath album is “Sabotage”. Mine too, although I like it just a little-little bit more than any of the other three masterpieces from what I view as the band’s creatively most successful years, 1973 to ’78. Note: I’m an adherent of prog first and foremost. The list of my favorite bands remains the same for some 30 years already: 1. Black Sabbath (all albums), 2. Genesis (1970 to ’78), 3. Pink Floyd (’67, ’68, ’70, ’71, ’73,’75, ’77, ’79, ’87 & ’94), 4. King Crimson (almost all albums), 5. Van Der Graaf Generator (same as KC), 6. Yes (1970 to ’87, 1994 to ’97 & 2001), 7. Jethro Tull (’72, ’73, ’78, ’80, ’87 to ’95), 8. Rush (1976 to ’85, ’93, ’07, ’12), 9. Kansas (1974 to ’79, ’88 to 2000), 10. ELP (1970 to ’73 & ’86). Yeah, Black Sabbath is #1. But who would dare to say I have a bad taste? :-)
                        :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                          A bit of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning ,, the "magic" of the early Sabbath ..... let me make everything clear for my readers here on "The Listen" , as we push toward a million reads - if Roller says it , bank on it!

                          As Roller , I have written and studied music for my entire life ,,, a track without multiple movements can most certainly have multiple titles designed to map out different time points .... a one minute song that never changes , can easily have 3 titles (in classical music and some jazz , more common than you may think - and Iommi carried these subtitle ideas from these genre's) ... just because there is an opening title , even with zero change in "sound" - does not mean there is no middle and end to that same sound ,,, and in the case of "A bit of Finger / Sleeping Village" - the lyrics do introduce a NEW sound (tho the same movement remains).

                          "A bit of Finger" is 21 seconds , "Sleeping Village" carrying "A bit of Finger" is 54 seconds .... "Warning" carrying what many call the back section of "Sleeping Village" (2 minutes and 55 seconds) expands the "Warning" from its posted 10 minutes and 28 second time slot , to its original "jam" orientation of 13 minutes and 23 seconds .... much like when Roller made that fantastic observation about "The Elegy" - would we say that subtitle expands the entire 5 minutes 25 seconds of "After Forever" or would it own a small time slot , at its origin point only.

                          UNDERSTAND THIS , what Roller presents against what I'm stating , is much more common thought and solid ground : "A bit of Finger" is the opening 'Jews Harp' (or just nothing) , "Sleeping Village" is 3 minutes 46 seconds , and the first of '3 parts' of the "Warning" opens with Geezer's bass as the vibrato fades giving us a 10 minute 28 second total time slot .... would pass the Sabbath litmus test before what I'm stating as fact (and what I'm stating - IS).

                          In other words , if your presented with door A "Doc" and door B "Roller" ... and a homeless man's lottery ticket is on the line .... let the man buy a house , and pick door B!


                          God Bless
                          Hey Doc, as I said in my message to you, I'm only interested in the truth, so if you have this information first hand then I have to defer to you. You say "what I'm stating as fact (and what I'm stating - IS)" which I take to mean that what you are stating is fact. If I'm misunderstanding you, let me know. If not, then it would seem that is how the tracks are named and would be foolish to argue with. I couldn't be happier to know that.

                          Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                          "A bit of Finger" is 21 seconds , "Sleeping Village" carrying "A bit of Finger" is 54 seconds .... "Warning" carrying what many call the back section of "Sleeping Village" (2 minutes and 55 seconds) expands the "Warning" from its posted 10 minutes and 28 second time slot , to its original "jam" orientation of 13 minutes and 23 seconds

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                            'The Eternal Idol' sans 'The"? Never.
                            That's a shame
                            One of sabbaths finest tracks

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ronn View Post
                              That's a shame. One of sabbaths finest tracks
                              Interesting site http://www.setlist.fm/stats/black-sabbath-33d6806d.html - Black Sabbath tour and song statistics.
                              :) My signature is not available due to the censorship on the part of my alter ego :(

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Progonaut View Post
                                Interesting site http://www.setlist.fm/stats/black-sabbath-33d6806d.html - Black Sabbath tour and song statistics.
                                Thank you! \m/

                                Is the information reliable?

                                Comment

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