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  • I ask this as a serious question, and most of you know my feelings about Dio and 80's Sabbath (and that i actually used to love Mob Rules and liked H&H once upon).

    My biggest problem are Dio's vocals. Yet again, not trying to put down a technically great singer, but like so many other "Metal" vocalists it's too theatre. Not to my taste, i like Rock.

    The other one is that Geezer and Bill got less groovy, and Appice had a less groovy style from the start. And (to my taste) a more boring, commercial songwriting.
    There's also the thing with the cheezy 80's production on H&H and MB, and Dehumanizers a bit too apparent attempt to sound contemporary.

    I know Tony and Geez have turned back to the sound and groove they do best (compairing with what they've done solo and 13/The End), so my question is; if it hadn't been for Dio's vocals, do you guys (honestly) think i'd enjoy the Dio Years-tracks and TDYK more musically, though i no longer even like the music of those older albums?

    Edit: to put it another way; would the karaoke version of Dio Years and TDYK sound more like the karaoke version of 13/The End/WhoCares than the karaoke version of H&H and MB compaired to the karaoke version of 70's Sab, which would sound nothing alike..?
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 05-12-2017, 08:34 AM.
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
    Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
      if it hadn't been for Dio's vocals, do you guys (honestly) think i'd enjoy the Dio Years-tracks and TDYK more musically, though i no longer even like the music of those older albums?
      No.

      The analysis you provided touched on not only the vocals, but the flow of the music and the production qualities of the albums. Whereas you may have enjoyed some of the music in the past, you no longer enjoy it and gave specific reasons why. Unless all of those reasons were addressed, I think you'd still be left cold.

      Maybe another way of approaching it would be if a cover band put their creative imprimatur on songs from that era (including TDYK) would you enjoy those more? Perhaps The Mob Rules meets The Ohio Players?


      gadji beri bimba glandridi laula lonni cadori - Ball

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      • gadji beri bimba glandridi laula lonni cadori - Ball

        Comment


        • Thanx. You understood my question, and was the right guy to answer. (But others, please join in)
          I feel like mixing the pure out Metal of 80's Sabbath with the funk you showed an example of there, then you're back to parts of the greatness of 70's Sabbath again.

          But i was kinda hoping that the music of TDYK would be closer to the Sabbath i love. So could i enjoy the karaoke version, and be able to join parts of the discussion of TDYK vs. 13 and all that crap
          95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
          Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Vynlsol View Post
            No.

            The analysis you provided touched on not only the vocals, but the flow of the music and the production qualities of the albums. Whereas you may have enjoyed some of the music in the past, you no longer enjoy it and gave specific reasons why. Unless all of those reasons were addressed, I think you'd still be left cold.

            Maybe another way of approaching it would be if a cover band put their creative imprimatur on songs from that era (including TDYK) would you enjoy those more? Perhaps The Mob Rules meets The Ohio Players?


            Man I love Dio , incredible he is ..... Vyn , did you reorganize your Sabbath collection as I suggested in post #5745 ....


            Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
            Thanx. You understood my question, and was the right guy to answer. (But others, please join in)
            I feel like mixing the pure out Metal of 80's Sabbath with the funk you showed an example of there, then you're back to parts of the greatness of 70's Sabbath again.

            But i was kinda hoping that the music of TDYK would be closer to the Sabbath i love. So could i enjoy the karaoke version, and be able to join parts of the discussion of TDYK vs. 13 and all that crap
            Billy , thank you for all the great PM's and posts ..... My goodness the 5 Dio era albums rival everything 70's Sab has ever done and vs versa .... but I know you don't want to hear that ,, I must say the production on "Heaven n Hell" is a Sabbath pinnacle , incredible sonics .... also "Heaven n Hell" is an album that in many ways is as 70's sounding as what came before , because the music is ..... if your not blown to the floor 'musically' with such 70's similarity standouts like "Wishing Well" - Ward at his all time best , Geezer has NEVER been better and Iommi is astounding - all in a 70's song writing fashion ,, and the mid section of "Walk Away" is as groove oriented as groove oriented gets ,, forget about "Lonely is the Word" , that's more 70's start to finish than half of the great 8 combined ....

            Mob Rules , pure impeccable 80's sound and production ,, but again outside of "Back to Eden" , "Sick n Tired" and much of "13" .... tracks like "Country Girl" and "Slipping Away" SCREAM 70's Sabbath as much as anything since "Sabotage" and the above mentioned tracks ..... "Sins of the Father" off arguably Sabbath's greatest effort "Dehumanizer" , much like "EOTB" from "13" could be right off the first 6 albums ..... and "Dehumanizer" in general has an eerie similarity to ALL 70's Sab - and as far as drums go , "Dehumanizer" puts Vinny in a league with the very best of all time , in an old-fashioned way .....

            .... so if those 3 albums didn't convince you to enjoy how much more Sabbath has to offer "in a 70's fashion" besides the 10 Oz Era and Born Again .... then "The Dio Years" and "TDYK" don't stand a chance .... BUT , as for arguably the greatest vocalist of our generation - besides "Wishing Well" , "The Dio Years" and especially "TDYK" , may actually present a vocal style that will invite an intice your ear drums brother , because he is at his most 70's sounding , tho the music is not .... I invite you to explore "TDYK" - it may actually be the most underrated album I have ever heard .... the first 5 tracks and "Breaking into Heaven" may tickle your fancy enough to turn your Sabbath world upside down - and if not , at least listen to the 3 main riffs from "Follow the Tears" and move on.


            Great question! .... hope my answer does more than help , I hope it adds a little Sabbath spice to your 70's palate.


            God Bless

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Thelemech View Post
              #19 - The Dio Years - Well the contents of this compilation and it's three new tracks are of the highest quality. This set helps kick start a new phase for the Dio led Sabbs that would culminate in the grand The Devil You Know.
              Worth it for the new songs alone.
              \m/
              thanks Thel!
              The Devil cried is one of my favorite Sabbath songs

              Originally posted by TYR66 View Post
              agreed . for me :
              1 - Shadow of the Wind . What a riff ! What a solo ! what a break ! what a bridge ! a Dio's peak sure .
              2 - Ear in the Wall . If I'm not wrong , Vinnie shows some groove here . Seems to be a hidden track from Dehumanizer.
              3 - The Devil Cried . Doomy Bass lines of Geezer. Pachydermic pounding .
              awesome description!
              shadow of the wind is not talked about enough
              ear in the wall is Joe Sieglers favorite black sabbath song, I remember doc saying that


              Doc said
              .... so if those 3 albums didn't convince you to enjoy how much more Sabbath has to offer "in a 70's fashion" besides the 10 Oz Era and Born Again .... then "The Dio Years" and "TDYK" don't stand a chance .... BUT , as for arguably the greatest vocalist of our generation - besides "Wishing Well" , "The Dio Years" and especially "TDYK" , may actually present a vocal style that will invite an intice your ear drums brother , because he is at his most 70's sounding , tho the music is not .... I invite you to explore "TDYK" - it may actually be the most underrated album I have ever heard .... the first 5 tracks and "Breaking into Heaven" may tickle your fancy enough to turn your Sabbath world upside down - and if not , at least listen to the 3 main riffs from "Follow the Tears" and move on.

              I've never thought of it like that Doc, very true about dio on tdyk \m/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                Man I love Dio , incredible he is ..... Vyn , did you reorganize your Sabbath collection as I suggested in post #5745 ....
                Nope. Of course I can only work with what I've got, and per your chronology:

                5 - Gathered in their Masses
                4 - 13 / Best Buy / The End
                3 - WhoCares single / deluxe
                2 - Neon Nights , 30 years of Heaven n Hell
                1 - TDYK / God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

                I have all of 4 (although I don't have The End on vinyl), and the first half of 1.

                You aren't just a fan, you are a certified fanatic!
                gadji beri bimba glandridi laula lonni cadori - Ball

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                • Originally posted by Vynlsol View Post

                  You aren't just a fan, you are a certified fanatic!

                  Comment


                  • I wish Ronnie had released more albums with Sabbath, markII lineup had chemistry.
                    "They tell you black is really white the moon is just the sun at night and when you walk in golden halls you get to keep the gold that falls, it's heaven and hell"
                    ~ Ronnie James Dio

                    Comment


                    • ^^^^^ Accidentally hit your profile page , sorry my good man .... and YES , the Dio Era was / is astounding!!


                      People , TDYK is un-friggin-real , my goodness I am so disappointed in my own personal stupidity , to not have realized the magnitude of this release ..... don't get me wrong , I have always went bonkers about it ,,,, but , damn , I had no clue - it is magnificent , possibly breaking the top 12 .... and that is unheard of ....

                      ..... wow!


                      “Breaking into Heaven” is a song that Ronnie shines above all on, and it seems a little bittersweet, considering it’s the very last track he sang on when it comes to full studio albums .... this quote was sent to me today ,, and truer words could not be spoken ,, BREAKING INTO HEAVEN is bar none the most impressive vocal performance by Dio - EVER! .... The track is a top 4 Dio Era release , and of such high quality it blows the mind .... it may very well be the most epic track at the most perfect time that Sabbath has ever released.


                      Originally posted by Vynlsol View Post
                      Nope. Of course I can only work with what I've got, and per your chronology:

                      5 - Gathered in their Masses
                      4 - 13 / Best Buy / The End
                      3 - WhoCares single / deluxe
                      2 - Neon Nights , 30 years of Heaven n Hell
                      1 - TDYK / God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

                      I have all of 4 (although I don't have The End on vinyl), and the first half of 1.
                      Pick up whichever of the above albums your missing , on me , my good brother ....


                      Originally posted by Vynlsol View Post
                      You aren't just a fan, you are a certified fanatic!
                      Are you sure ? ..............


                      Originally posted by ronn View Post
                      ear in the wall is Joe Sieglers favorite black sabbath song, I remember doc saying that
                      "Shadow of the Wind" , your absolutely correct , is not talked about nearly enough ....

                      And , yes , if I remember correctly ... 5 of Joe's faves are -

                      "Heaven in Black" , TYR

                      "What's the Use" , CP - and remember the Martin Era is Joe's favorite

                      "Ear in the Wall" , The Dio Years

                      "Eating the Cannibals" , TDYK

                      "Methademic" , 13


                      Someone said there's a lost horizon
                      We must find a way to the throne
                      Take his gold and the bed he lies on
                      The mercy from house made of stone

                      Before the fall we were only dancers
                      Angels gliding over the floor
                      Time stood still
                      And we were sure of the answers
                      We waited but some wanted more

                      High above the world we had it all
                      So no one seemed to care when evil came to call and
                      Soon we knew temptation and we sinned
                      Then he closed the door, we can't come back again

                      Before today it has a dark tomorrow
                      Chained and cursed to wander with men
                      But we've been told that it's time and we must go
                      Don't hope less, we maybe we can

                      Now we're back again, we want it all
                      And no one seems to know that evil's come to call and
                      We will read temptation and you sin
                      Then we'll slam the door
                      You can't come back again

                      Breaking into heaven
                      Changing the rules
                      Breaking into heaven
                      Just a world for the fools
                      Oh breaking into heaven
                      Get ready for war
                      Breaking into heaven
                      We only want more and more and more and more

                      Far beneath the world we miss the sun
                      Why did we believe and change on everyone so
                      Now we're here to take away your life
                      So you can go forever where the next day's still tonight

                      Breaking into heaven
                      Changing the rules
                      Breaking into heaven
                      Just a world full of fools
                      Oh breaking into heaven
                      Get ready for war
                      Breaking into heaven
                      We only want more and more and more and more

                      We're ready for war
                      We're just outside your door
                      (Breaking into heaven)
                      We've just found the keys and we're
                      Breaking into heaven


                      Some interesting General Comment from people I do not know , but were left for me today , from when n where - I don't know , but interesting to read thoughts about such an astounding piece of music:

                      This is the War between God and Lucifer, it is word by word what the Bible says, you need to know it in order to understand it.

                      I don't think this song is about Lucifer and God- but about the devils rebelling against Lucifer because they are pissed they were tempted to turn away from God and all got kicked out of heaven. They want to return to Heaven, but on their own terms. They want it all- heaven, hell, and the earth between.

                      It is?? I think that the Bible tells about the angels rebellion, and Lucifer and his demons being cast out of heaven (High above the world we had it all, so no one seemed to care when evil came to call and soon we knew temptation and we sinned, then he closed the door, we can't come back again), but this is the "sequel" - the demons are coming back to invade heaven P

                      "Now we're back again we want it all, and no one seems to know that evil's come to call and we will bring temptation and you'll sin, then we'll slam the door, you can't come back again" (btw, I like how the first bridge says "then he closed the door", and then the second "then we'll SLAM the door, more evil )

                      Furthermore, the chorus is kinda obvious under this point of view... and in one of the press releases of the album the song was described like that... so this is not about the demons being cast out of heaven, but it's about the demons coming back to kick the angels' asses!! (no offense intended).

                      Well, that's not entirely true. There's a section of Isaiah that references lucifer, but the next time it uses the name lucifer it's as a name of christ.

                      So in conclusion, this has very little to do with biblical prophecy, and alot more to do with black sabbath liking the whole 'Fallen/rebellious angel' thing.

                      Well, the part where Dio says "Changing the rules" makes me think it might have to do with the religious people who put words in God's mouth. Things that aren't even in the Bible, but are said to be against his rules. Technically they're "changing the rules."
                      Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 05-13-2017, 06:37 PM. Reason: GOD BLESS ....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ElvesWearBoots View Post
                        I wish Ronnie had released more albums with Sabbath, markII lineup had chemistry.
                        TDYK is a remarkable album. Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill had a chemistry that grew a monster. With Dio, I believe it was a successful professional arrangement. In his book, I recall Tony saying that he was surprised by Ronnie having a separate dressing room.


                        Doc, interesting that you are discussing Breaking Into Heaven. I was going to ask you if you rated RNR Angel higher than Breaking Into Heaven, I prefer the latter.
                        Thank you for the compliment regarding my 5/5 thread. Unfortunately, too many here prefer to agitate, or bitch about something.

                        Comment


                        • Rock and Roll Angel \m/, Breaking into Heaven is great also!

                          @Doc,
                          Joe also stated Hot Line off born again as another favorite.
                          Did you get any new information on the Walking Dead?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                            ^^^^^ Accidentally hit your profile page , sorry my good man .... and YES , the Dio Era was / is astounding!!


                            People , TDYK is un-friggin-real , my goodness I am so disappointed in my own personal stupidity , to not have realized the magnitude of this release ..... don't get me wrong , I have always went bonkers about it ,,,, but , damn , I had no clue - it is magnificent , possibly breaking the top 12 .... and that is unheard of ....

                            ..... wow!


                            “Breaking into Heaven” is a song that Ronnie shines above all on, and it seems a little bittersweet, considering it’s the very last track he sang on when it comes to full studio albums .... this quote was sent to me today ,, and truer words could not be spoken ,, BREAKING INTO HEAVEN is bar none the most impressive vocal performance by Dio - EVER! .... The track is a top 4 Dio Era release , and of such high quality it blows the mind .... it may very well be the most epic track at the most perfect time that Sabbath has ever released.




                            Pick up whichever of the above albums your missing , on me , my good brother ....




                            Are you sure ? ..............




                            "Shadow of the Wind" , your absolutely correct , is not talked about nearly enough ....

                            And , yes , if I remember correctly ... 5 of Joe's faves are -

                            "Heaven in Black" , TYR

                            "What's the Use" , CP - and remember the Martin Era is Joe's favorite

                            "Ear in the Wall" , The Dio Years

                            "Eating the Cannibals" , TDYK

                            "Methademic" , 13


                            Someone said there's a lost horizon
                            We must find a way to the throne
                            Take his gold and the bed he lies on
                            The mercy from house made of stone

                            Before the fall we were only dancers
                            Angels gliding over the floor
                            Time stood still
                            And we were sure of the answers
                            We waited but some wanted more

                            High above the world we had it all
                            So no one seemed to care when evil came to call and
                            Soon we knew temptation and we sinned
                            Then he closed the door, we can't come back again

                            Before today it has a dark tomorrow
                            Chained and cursed to wander with men
                            But we've been told that it's time and we must go
                            Don't hope less, we maybe we can

                            Now we're back again, we want it all
                            And no one seems to know that evil's come to call and
                            We will read temptation and you sin
                            Then we'll slam the door
                            You can't come back again

                            Breaking into heaven
                            Changing the rules
                            Breaking into heaven
                            Just a world for the fools
                            Oh breaking into heaven
                            Get ready for war
                            Breaking into heaven
                            We only want more and more and more and more

                            Far beneath the world we miss the sun
                            Why did we believe and change on everyone so
                            Now we're here to take away your life
                            So you can go forever where the next day's still tonight

                            Breaking into heaven
                            Changing the rules
                            Breaking into heaven
                            Just a world full of fools
                            Oh breaking into heaven
                            Get ready for war
                            Breaking into heaven
                            We only want more and more and more and more

                            We're ready for war
                            We're just outside your door
                            (Breaking into heaven)
                            We've just found the keys and we're
                            Breaking into heaven


                            Some interesting General Comment from people I do not know , but were left for me today , from when n where - I don't know , but interesting to read thoughts about such an astounding piece of music:

                            This is the War between God and Lucifer, it is word by word what the Bible says, you need to know it in order to understand it.

                            I don't think this song is about Lucifer and God- but about the devils rebelling against Lucifer because they are pissed they were tempted to turn away from God and all got kicked out of heaven. They want to return to Heaven, but on their own terms. They want it all- heaven, hell, and the earth between.

                            It is?? I think that the Bible tells about the angels rebellion, and Lucifer and his demons being cast out of heaven (High above the world we had it all, so no one seemed to care when evil came to call and soon we knew temptation and we sinned, then he closed the door, we can't come back again), but this is the "sequel" - the demons are coming back to invade heaven P

                            "Now we're back again we want it all, and no one seems to know that evil's come to call and we will bring temptation and you'll sin, then we'll slam the door, you can't come back again" (btw, I like how the first bridge says "then he closed the door", and then the second "then we'll SLAM the door, more evil )

                            Furthermore, the chorus is kinda obvious under this point of view... and in one of the press releases of the album the song was described like that... so this is not about the demons being cast out of heaven, but it's about the demons coming back to kick the angels' asses!! (no offense intended).

                            Well, that's not entirely true. There's a section of Isaiah that references lucifer, but the next time it uses the name lucifer it's as a name of christ.

                            So in conclusion, this has very little to do with biblical prophecy, and alot more to do with black sabbath liking the whole 'Fallen/rebellious angel' thing.

                            Well, the part where Dio says "Changing the rules" makes me think it might have to do with the religious people who put words in God's mouth. Things that aren't even in the Bible, but are said to be against his rules. Technically they're "changing the rules."
                            Why would you be sorry for looking at my profile?
                            Originally posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
                            TDYK is a remarkable album. Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill had a chemistry that grew a monster. With Dio, I believe it was a successful professional arrangement. In his book, I recall Tony saying that he was surprised by Ronnie having a separate dressing room.


                            Doc, interesting that you are discussing Breaking Into Heaven. I was going to ask you if you rated RNR Angel higher than Breaking Into Heaven, I prefer the latter.
                            Thank you for the compliment regarding my 5/5 thread. Unfortunately, too many here prefer to agitate, or bitch about something.
                            Yes of course they also had chemistry.
                            "They tell you black is really white the moon is just the sun at night and when you walk in golden halls you get to keep the gold that falls, it's heaven and hell"
                            ~ Ronnie James Dio

                            Comment


                            • Yay, Past Lives on vinyl finally ordered. Est. delivery from one to two months...
                              95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                              Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
                                Yay, Past Lives on vinyl finally ordered. Est. delivery from one to two months...
                                Yay!! .... 1 to 2 months , that's criminal ..... TDYK any thoughts yet


                                Originally posted by ElvesWearBoots View Post
                                Why would you be sorry for looking at my profile?.
                                Only cause I hit it on accident my fine brother ..... glad to see all the new members loving all the Sabbath eras .... welcome!


                                *** It's funny and sad coming on these amazing Sabbath forums , and only KDC (kudos!!) even mentions the late , INCREDIBLY GREAT , Jimmy Copley .... Most people need to be told who is great by a mass amount of people to "hopefully" realize it .... Black Sabbath drummer Copley , had a cult following - very warranted , guy was a beast and significantly superior than 90% of the drummers mentioned on these boards .....

                                LAUGHING MAN IN A DEVIL'S MASK - is one of the top 10 Sabbath drum tracks I play for new comers - So much taste and character on that kit , and technically insane!

                                As for PATTERNS - Listen to that mid section , wow this guy was special

                                His work on "DEP" - Took Holland's work and made it his own , completely transferring "DEP" into its own separate release from the masterful "8th Star" ....

                                For those who don't know , take a few minutes and listen to how it's done .... https://youtu.be/C4n3a07Nbjk


                                God Bless

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