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"13" or TDYK?

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  • "13" or TDYK?

    I think we've had polls on which and who prefers what I think TDYK is the better of 2 great albums, its a lot heavier there's some great songs on that album it has the better definitive song "Bible Black" vs "God Is Dead..." wadda ya thunk
    "Music is so sacred to me that I can’t hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
    R. Blackmore

  • #2
    Great question. Some days I prefer 13 and others I prefer The Devil You Know. I feel that some of the riffs on tdyk seem more “classic”. But really, it’s a toss up for sure. My opinion will change daily on this one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    • #3
      I think TDYK was an excellent addition to the Dio era. I rate it substantially higher than Dehumanizer. Bible Black is the highlight of the album. For me, 13 successfully recreated the sound and vibe of the early days of Black Sabbath, with several new classics. The heaviness and gloom of this early Ozzy era is unrivaled in my rankings.

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      • #4
        Both albums are great Sabbath albums, I’ll go with 13 as the better album and the one I prefer.

        God Is Dead? true Sabbath classic sound.
        "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
        "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
        ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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        • #5
          I'm an Ozzy era guy first and foremost but TDYK is far superior in my opinion.
          Bible Black and Follow The Tears stand shoulder to shoulder with the best songs that lineup did together.

          Nothing on 13 comes close to what that lineup did before, even the 2 tracks from reunion are better.

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          • #6
            Ozzy Sabbath will always be better than Dio Sabbath for one reason and one reason only: Introspection. Ozzy's Sabbath Sandbox is one of introspection, existentialism and human condition.

            Dio's Sabbath is always one of Fantasy, Ego, and Esoteric symbolism.

            Therefore Ozzy's work is more direct and personal, personable and relatable.

            No matter how great of a singer Dio is, no matter how grandiose his subjects, lyrics and point-of-view...it can never equate the value of the Ozzy material.

            That includes 13 vs TDYK

            "Fear" is one of the greatest riffs of all time. It is sick as hell. "Eating the Cannibals" is a very fresh riff. TDYK is chock full of great riffage and Dio sounds more interesting in his aged, weaker state...a little sinister....a little spooky.

            But "God Is Dead?" is maybe a perfect song. The kind that just don't happen anymore. "Methademic" is a slaughterhouse of a song. "Live Forever" is classic Sabbath with clever lyrics.

            13 managed to be relevant while TDYK kind of forwarded the status quo a bit.

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            • #8
              Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
              Ozzy Sabbath will always be better than Dio Sabbath for one reason and one reason only: Introspection. Ozzy's Sabbath Sandbox is one of introspection, existentialism and human condition.

              Dio's Sabbath is always one of Fantasy, Ego, and Esoteric symbolism.

              Therefore Ozzy's work is more direct and personal, personable and relatable.

              No matter how great of a singer Dio is, no matter how grandiose his subjects, lyrics and point-of-view...it can never equate the value of the Ozzy material.

              That includes 13 vs TDYK

              "Fear" is one of the greatest riffs of all time. It is sick as hell. "Eating the Cannibals" is a very fresh riff. TDYK is chock full of great riffage and Dio sounds more interesting in his aged, weaker state...a little sinister....a little spooky.

              But "God Is Dead?" is maybe a perfect song. The kind that just don't happen anymore. "Methademic" is a slaughterhouse of a song. "Live Forever" is classic Sabbath with clever lyrics.

              13 managed to be relevant while TDYK kind of forwarded the status quo a bit.
              Great post William, and glad you love God Is Dead?
              "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
              "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
              ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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              • #9
                I prefer The Devil You Know over 13 by a slight margin. Ultimately, the best material on the former is stronger than the best of the latter, to my ears.

                I agree with W_T_B regarding Fear, easily that album's best track. And frankly, I think it's better than anything on 13.

                The Devil You Know gets a 3.5 while 13 is a solid three (on a five-star scale).

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                • #10
                  I really need to listen to 'The Devil You Know' a bit more. I don't own it, but perhaps I should.

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Requiem View Post
                    I really need to listen to 'The Devil You Know' a bit more. I don't own it, but perhaps I should.

                    You should get it Requiem, you won't be disappointed.
                    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                    • #12
                      The Devil You Know by a country mile.

                      13 sounds too contrived. Some songs sound like blatant rewrites of older, superior riffs/ideas. I don’t think genuine inspiration happens that way.

                      TDYK is the sound of four guys free to create whatever they want, not trying to capture past glories and not weighed down by the baggage and expectations that come with a brand name like Black Sabbath.

                      Oh, and it has better songs too. lol

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Towelie View Post
                        The Devil You Know by a country mile.

                        13 sounds too contrived. Some songs sound like blatant rewrites of older, superior riffs/ideas. I don’t think genuine inspiration happens that way.

                        TDYK is the sound of four guys free to create whatever they want, not trying to capture past glories and not weighed down by the baggage and expectations that come with a brand name like Black Sabbath.

                        Oh, and it has better songs too. lol
                        There is a lot of weight in this point of view too. Contrived, yes. However...the three tracks I mentioned from 13 I think escape that conclusion fairly well. GID? has a bit of "Hole In the Sky" but it's mostly the swing of it and not the actual notes.

                        I can find 3 great tracks off of either album that defy criticism, IMO. BB, F, and EtC from TDYK and GID?, METH and LF off of 13.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                          There is a lot of weight in this point of view too. Contrived, yes. However...the three tracks I mentioned from 13 I think escape that conclusion fairly well. GID? has a bit of "Hole In the Sky" but it's mostly the swing of it and not the actual notes.

                          I can find 3 great tracks off of either album that defy criticism, IMO. BB, F, and EtC from TDYK and GID?, METH and LF off of 13.
                          I dunno... I kind of feel as if GID? is actually the perfect example of all that is wrong with 13. Even though I quite like it, it feels very blatant to me. As if Rick Rubin came into the studio with a massive boner to be producing the guys who made War Pigs, and tried his best to get them to ape that sound as much as they could. Sabbath were never ones to repeat themselves, especially in those early days, where each of those first six Ozzy albums were such a radical departure from the last.

                          With 13, they are almost following a blueprint of Paranoid. Could Zeitgeist want to be Planet Caravan any harder? Loner and Pariah are going for that NIB structure. It's so read through.

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Towelie View Post
                            I dunno... I kind of feel as if GID? is actually the perfect example of all that is wrong with 13. Even though I quite like it, it feels very blatant to me. As if Rick Rubin came into the studio with a massive boner to be producing the guys who made War Pigs, and tried his best to get them to ape that sound as much as they could. Sabbath were never ones to repeat themselves, especially in those early days, where each of those first six Ozzy albums were such a radical departure from the last.

                            With 13, they are almost following a blueprint of Paranoid. Could Zeitgeist want to be Planet Caravan any harder? Loner and Pariah are going for that NIB structure. It's so read through.
                            It's that exact reason why "13" , all 16 tracks , is such a tremendous album .... they did what they never did before , recorded an album to sound like the "past" - and they accomplished this goal with such dominance , it makes you smile with great satisfaction while enjoying the music.


                            .... and TDYK is fantastic.

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