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Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

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  • #16
    Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Upon first hearing Never Say Die! I hated it. Tony's treble-y guitar tone plus bland songs did not help either. Over time a few of the songs grew on me, and now I don't think its so bad. Air Dance is a true gem.

    I still can't stand Over To You and A Hard Road however.

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    • #17
      Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

      I love Tony's tone on NSD. So slick.

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      • #18
        Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

        I love Tony's tone on NSD. So slick.

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        • #19
          Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

          NEVER SAY DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
          Vic always says 'killing is my business, and business is good'.. He can play the symphony of destruction, after all the worlds needs a hero because the system has failed. Vic is on the killing road to Hangar 18, and he will Take No Prisioners on this holy wars.

          Quote by Ray Rules

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          • #20
            Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

            NEVER SAY DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Vic always says 'killing is my business, and business is good'.. He can play the symphony of destruction, after all the worlds needs a hero because the system has failed. Vic is on the killing road to Hangar 18, and he will Take No Prisioners on this holy wars.

            Quote by Ray Rules

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell


              This is an odd match-up for me, cos I actually don't care about either of these two albums. NSD was a truly sad, sloppy way to bring the curtains down on the Ozzy-era Sabbath. NSD, excepting maybe 2-3 songs on it, always left me feeling very deflated owing to its thoroughly tasteless, tame, unremarkable hard-rockish sound, Tony's pedestrian guitar-playing overall, Ozzy's lacklustre, vapid vocals, the seemingly untidy, unfocused experimentation all over the record, and just the entire jazzy, poppy atmopherics minus any real quality in content failed to win me over.

              I voted H&H here, although I don't rate Dio's debut with Sabbath nearly as highly as most other fans (at least on these boards) seem to do. I find H&H to be moderately good, no more, no less, rather bland and boring than many people are willing to admit. Yet, it's still much stronger overall than NSD and wins my preference everytime.
              "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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              • #22
                Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell


                This is an odd match-up for me, cos I actually don't care about either of these two albums. NSD was a truly sad, sloppy way to bring the curtains down on the Ozzy-era Sabbath. NSD, excepting maybe 2-3 songs on it, always left me feeling very deflated owing to its thoroughly tasteless, tame, unremarkable hard-rockish sound, Tony's pedestrian guitar-playing overall, Ozzy's lacklustre, vapid vocals, the seemingly untidy, unfocused experimentation all over the record, and just the entire jazzy, poppy atmopherics minus any real quality in content failed to win me over.

                I voted H&H here, although I don't rate Dio's debut with Sabbath nearly as highly as most other fans (at least on these boards) seem to do. I find H&H to be moderately good, no more, no less, rather bland and boring than many people are willing to admit. Yet, it's still much stronger overall than NSD and wins my preference everytime.
                "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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                • #23
                  Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

                  I HATE fudging questions, but honestly, this is really too hard for me to decide. I absolutely love both albums to death. I can listen to either of them from beginning to end. "Junior's Eyes" probably has my favorite melody line from Ozzy, but the song "Heaven and Hell" is just such an epic. If I had to choose one for this week though, it would definitely be "Heaven and Hell". That's the CD I'm currently losing myself in!

                  Some people hear the differences between these two albums and jump to the conclusion that it was all due to Ozzy being there vs. not being there. But I think it was due to the change in writing teams. It went from Iommi-Ward-Butler (I know Osbourne helped rewrite "Junior's Eyes", but he was still absent through most of the album's making, or so I've read) to Iommi-Dio-Nicholls (Bill said he has "no memory" of making H&H, and Geezer didn't come in until most of the album was already written).

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                  • #24
                    Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

                    Obviously, I have to say Heaven And Hell simply due to the fact
                    that it's probably my all time favorite album. Having said that,
                    I love Never Say Die as well! Comparing these two albums, as someone else said, it's apples to oranges. NSD is kind of a strange listen. It's a band out of sorts, on their last legs
                    limping to their tenth anniversary as a band. The production
                    is odd, yet has a certain charm to it. Some very unique songs
                    as well. I love Johnny Blade, Junior's Eyes, Shock Wave and
                    Swinging The Chain to name a few. Heaven & Hell on the other
                    hand, is a band with a new lease on life. Side One of that album
                    is classic all the way though! Neon Knights, Children Of The Sea,
                    Lady Evil and Heaven & Hell still sound fresh 25 plus years later
                    to my ears. Side Two isn't too shabby either. I am a fan of
                    all eras of Sabbath so I enjoy most of their albums. Just my
                    two cents on these two albums.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

                      Heaven And Hell

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                      • #26
                        Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

                        NSD. Both suck but H&H is worse.

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                        • #27
                          Never Say Die! What could’ve been had they continued with Ozzy!

                          Heaven and Hell still a masterpiece though and what could’ve been had they continued with Dio past Live Evil, but my vote goes to Never Say Die!
                          "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                          "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                          ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                          • #28
                            They are two different and uncomparable albums so the choice depends on what do you prefer.

                            Never Say Die is a great album but it is different from the previous Sabbath's stuff. Its not heavy and thunderous like the pre Technical Ecstasy stuff. Its is just generic 70's rock and if i didnt knew that this album is a Black Sabbath album, i wouldnt believe it. However, is a great album with great stuff and if you hear it with an open mind, you will enjoy it.

                            Heaven and hell from the other hand, is the resurrection of the band. The heavy, thunderous and bursting character of the band until the Sabotage album, is back. We have a more targeted and formulaic sound and an album full of energy and speed. This album, was a Major turning point in Sabbath's career and began a formula that was used in every Sabbath album after. The rhythm pattern of the Heaven and Hell song, is used in the song Holy Diver and on the song Headless Cross. You can understand how influential this album was.

                            I like both of the albums but my pick is Heaven and Hell because it began the evolution of the band sound and style and also opened the path for a different music style.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                              Never Say Die! What could’ve been had they continued with Ozzy!

                              Heaven and Hell still a masterpiece though and what could’ve been had they continued with Dio past Live Evil, but my vote goes to Never Say Die!
                              What could have been had they continued with Ozzy is disaster. The band was dysfunctional, everybody was coked out of their minds and the quality of the music had clearly declined compared to the earlier albums. The split was a necessity for all involved.

                              When it comes to which album is better, Never Say Die! or Heaven & Hell, I'd say it's Heaven & Hell, easily. They have such a newfound energy on that album and the songwriting is brilliant across the board.
                              you got a killer scene there, man...

                              http://10000years.bandcamp.com
                              http://www.facebook.com/TenThousandyrs
                              http://www.facebook.com/DVRSweden

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tsimisde View Post
                                They are two different and uncomparable albums so the choice depends on what do you prefer.

                                Never Say Die is a great album but it is different from the previous Sabbath's stuff. Its not heavy and thunderous like the pre Technical Ecstasy stuff. Its is just generic 70's rock and if i didnt knew that this album is a Black Sabbath album, i wouldnt believe it. However, is a great album with great stuff and if you hear it with an open mind, you will enjoy it.

                                Heaven and hell from the other hand, is the resurrection of the band. The heavy, thunderous and bursting character of the band until the Sabotage album, is back. We have a more targeted and formulaic sound and an album full of energy and speed. This album, was a Major turning point in Sabbath's career and began a formula that was used in every Sabbath album after. The rhythm pattern of the Heaven and Hell song, is used in the song Holy Diver and on the song Headless Cross. You can understand how influential this album was.

                                I like both of the albums but my pick is Heaven and Hell because it began the evolution of the band sound and style and also opened the path for a different music style.
                                Good points.

                                Originally posted by Ala View Post
                                What could have been had they continued with Ozzy is disaster. The band was dysfunctional, everybody was coked out of their minds and the quality of the music had clearly declined compared to the earlier albums. The split was a necessity for all involved.

                                When it comes to which album is better, Never Say Die! or Heaven & Hell, I'd say it's Heaven & Hell, easily. They have such a newfound energy on that album and the songwriting is brilliant across the board.
                                Perhaps you are right Ala, when it come to Sabbath I'll always choose Ozzy over the rest, Ozzy era is my preference.
                                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                                ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                                Comment

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