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  • The "truth" behind 'Seventh Star' : Your thoughts?

    I got the idea for this thread from a different site I was on regarding a discussion of 'Seventh Star'. I remember going to the Wherehouse ( an old record store from my youth ) and seeing this for the first time in Feb. 1986 upon it's initial release. If memory serves me correctly there wasn't a lot of pre "hype" about it, so to speak. I just remember being puzzled with the moniker 'Black Sabbath Featuring Tony Iommi'. Interestingly enough, at the time if I did hear anything at all it wasn't about the music. It was the harsh criticism Tony received for putting a "Sabbath" album out under his own name. In short order, the "backlash" was RIGHTLY deserved, in my opinion. But I digress.

    From what I recall, the "solo album" story didn't surface until several months later when the album TANKED! Personally, that's when I think that Tony started referring to it as an "intended" solo album. Let's also not forget him "passing the buck" ( again, MY opinion ) to Warner regarding the "new" name of the "band". Damage control for the time, perhaps? Hard to say. In any event, let the discussion begin. As always, on my ( admittedly VERY few... ) threads comments BOTH pro AND con are more than welcome!

  • #2
    Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    I got the idea for this thread from a different site I was on regarding a discussion of 'Seventh Star'. I remember going to the Wherehouse ( an old record store from my youth ) and seeing this for the first time in Feb. 1986 upon it's initial release. If memory serves me correctly there wasn't a lot of pre "hype" about it, so to speak. I just remember being puzzled with the moniker 'Black Sabbath Featuring Tony Iommi'. Interestingly enough, at the time if I did hear anything at all it wasn't about the music. It was the harsh criticism Tony received for putting a "Sabbath" album out under his own name. In short order, the "backlash" was RIGHTLY deserved, in my opinion. But I digress.

    From what I recall, the "solo album" story didn't surface until several months later when the album TANKED! Personally, that's when I think that Tony started referring to it as an "intended" solo album. Let's also not forget him "passing the buck" ( again, MY opinion ) to Warner regarding the "new" name of the "band". Damage control for the time, perhaps? Hard to say. In any event, let the discussion begin. As always, on my ( admittedly VERY few... ) threads comments BOTH pro AND con are more than welcome!
    Seventh Star is admittedly along with master of reality the sabbath album to make me a fan
    one of Sabbaths finest moments
    love!

    Comment


    • #3
      I didn't care what it was called or who was in it. I bought it back in '86, liked it and still do. It may have "tanked" but I think that was everyone elses loss. You never said if you liked the album ASH. If you do then I see no reason for this topic. If you don't then I guess I can understand why you're bitter... Sabbath purist?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by turch118 View Post
        I didn't care what it was called or who was in it. I bought it back in '86, liked it and still do. It may have "tanked" but I think that was everyone elses loss. You never said if you liked the album ASH. If you do then I see no reason for this topic. If you don't then I guess I can understand why you're bitter... Sabbath purist?
        Fair comments 'turch118'. On it's OWN merits, it isn't a bad album. I give it two out of five stars as an Iommi album. As a Black Sabbath album, I give it no stars. Frankly, the songs on there sound like NOTHING that the original lineup or the Dio era would ever record. My opinion mind you.

        I respectfully disagree that there isn't any "reason for this topic" if I like the record. I feel it's a topic that's fair game. The main point for this thread was the fact that there wasn't any talk at the time that Tony had any qualms with putting this out as a Black Sabbath album. Not to mention under HIS own name. I think that played a huge factor in the album's demise, so to speak. As a result, he started telling the press that it was an "intended" solo album, and subsequently blamed Warner Bros. for the fiasco that ensued in the hard rock community at the time. Frankly, it was no coincidence that the next album 'Eternal Idol' would go out as a "Black Sabbath" album. Even though that wasn't either. But I digress.

        Personally. I reserve the name Black Sabbath for two incarnations only: the original lineup AND the Dio era. The QUALITY of both eras overall do justice to the band's name. The same can't be said about the lineups that followed. That said, there are certainly some shining moments throughout that period without question. At what point does INTEGRITY come into play? Thanks for responding. Great comment despite our difference of opinion. Respect ( ).
        Last edited by A Sabbath Historian; 03-17-2015, 01:59 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sabbath Historian I feel the same way you do and agree regarding Tony passing the buck around, I've said it before on other posts concerning this. I'll just leave it at that.
          Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 03-17-2015, 03:25 AM.
          "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
          "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
          ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by turch118 View Post
            I didn't care what it was called or who was in it. I bought it back in '86, liked it and still do. It may have "tanked" but I think that was everyone elses loss. You never said if you liked the album ASH. If you do then I see no reason for this topic. If you don't then I guess I can understand why you're bitter... Sabbath purist?
            Turch , you and Ronn are the Sabbath purist , it's obvious in your post .... don't mistake a lack of knowledge , as a stance of truth.

            Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
            Fair comments 'turch118'. On it's OWN merits, it isn't a bad album. I give it two out of five stars as an Iommi album. As a Black Sabbath album, I give it no stars. Frankly, the songs on there sound like NOTHING that the original lineup or the Dio era would ever record. My opinion mind you.

            I respectfully disagree that there isn't any "reason for this topic" if I like the record. I feel it's a topic that's fair game. The main point for this thread was the fact that there wasn't any talk at the time that Tony had any qualms with putting this out as a Black Sabbath album. Not to mention under HIS own name. I think that played a huge factor in the albums' demise, so to speak. As a result, he started telling the press that it was an "intended" solo album, and subsequently blamed Warner Bros. for the fiasco that ensued in the hard rock community at the time. Frankly, it was no coincidence that the next album 'Eternal Idol' would go out as a "Black Sabbath" album. Even though that wasn't either. But I digress.

            Personally. I reserve the name Black Sabbath for two incarnations only: the original lineup AND the Dio era. The QUALITY of both eras overall do justice to the band's name. The same can't be said about the lineups that followed. That said, there are certainly some shining moments throughout that period without question. At what point does INTEGRITY come into play? Thanks for responding. Great comment despite our difference of opinion. Respect ( ).
            My good friend "the sabbath historian" ,,,, the one interesting thing from your above post outside of all the inaccuracies .... is the fact you give the 5 star , 7th Star release - 2 stars .... yet the 5 star TE and NSD you give only one star ..... interesting ,,,, now - that's 7th star as a non Sabbath release ,,, if that's the case - what is Paranoid's rating as a non sabbath release. .... makes about as much sense.

            7th star actually had very good commercial success on its release ,, sold well ,, peaked in the 70's on the billboard 200 chart .... peaked in the top 20 in 15 other countries. .... Iommi aka Sabbath , almost made the mistake - releasing Sabbath's 12 studio release as a solo album ,,, yet my man Don Arden made sure that did not happen ,,, forever changing the Sabbath legacy for the better , and securing the likes of albums such as "Fused" to be talked about , right along side of MOR as some of Sabbath's best work!

            Interesting that you comment that 7the star doesn't have the Sabbath sound .... when in fact it is more tuned to orginal sabbath , then Heaven n Hell and Mob Rules .... it incorporates a blues foundation through out ..... as for quality of music it stands along side the first eleven without even blinking. Takes Sabbath to a level they hadn't explored yet , "integrity" is growth man , enjoy it - cause most bands can only dream of it ..... and who would have known at the time of its incredible release that 7th star and the 11 before it ,,, were about to be put on watch , in the truest sense , of what "greatness" is capable of - with Sabbath's landmark ETERNAL IDOL!!


            pleasure responding to your post lately , just solidifies time and again , how timeless Sabbath truly are - weather it be the extreme diversity of TE , or the over the top magic of 7th star!! ... thanks brother and God bless.

            Comment


            • #7
              You guys go ahead, but man, 7th Star, in my very humble opinion, doesn't deserve four minutes of text. It's worse than Forbidden.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                You guys go ahead, but man, 7th Star, in my very humble opinion, doesn't deserve four minutes of text. It's worse than Forbidden.
                Agreed. An unhonest attempt at trying to be something they (Iommi) weren't. By far the worst release to grace the name "Black Sabbath" in my books.
                "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
                "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
                "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
                  Agreed. An unhonest attempt at trying to be something they (Iommi) weren't. By far the worst release to grace the name "Black Sabbath" in my books.
                  Phew, thanks...was worried I was going to get flamed for desecrating the legacy of such an amazing album loaded with musical genius and amazing, unique vocals.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                    Phew, thanks...was worried I was going to get flamed for desecrating the legacy of such an amazing album loaded with musical genius and amazing, unique vocals.
                    Well the performances are top notch, no doubt about that. And maybe I could enjoy the album more than I do without the Sabbath stigma. It's just, compare it to any of it's 11 predecessors and it's hard to call it a Sabbath album. It wasn't supposed to be one, and it shows.

                    I've always said that 7th Star and all the Geezer-less albums would be held in a much higher regard these days if they were Iommi solo albums or under some new band title. They had and have a pretty unfair legacy of genre changing albums like Paranoid, MOR and Heaven & Hell to live up to. If people wouldn't have to compare say The Eternal Idol to Sabotage or Headless Cross to Mob Rules they could see the moments of brilliance those albums have.

                    I know I enjoy most of those albums (TYR, Forbidden and 7th Star excluded), but they are a far cry from their hey days.
                    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
                    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
                    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                      Phew, thanks...was worried I was going to get flamed for desecrating the legacy of such an amazing album loaded with musical genius and amazing, unique vocals.
                      Lol , i actually thought about it ,,, but you have had some pretty good constructive moments in other area's on these boards ,,,, so i decided what the heck ,,,, not everyone appreciates the same level of greatness time and again!! ... and as for my brother STAR , who i truly love ,, after stating such a profound post , my man goes and praises the graces and talents of Megadeath , which in turn puts everything in perspective for me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                        Turch , you and Ronn are the Sabbath purist , it's obvious in your post .... don't mistake a lack of knowledge , as a stance of truth.



                        My good friend "the sabbath historian" ,,,, the one interesting thing from your above post outside of all the inaccuracies .... is the fact you give the 5 star , 7th Star release - 2 stars .... yet the 5 star TE and NSD you give only one star ..... interesting ,,,, now - that's 7th star as a non Sabbath release ,,, if that's the case - what is Paranoid's rating as a non sabbath release. .... makes about as much sense.

                        7th star actually had very good commercial success on its release ,, sold well ,, peaked in the 70's on the billboard 200 chart .... peaked in the top 20 in 15 other countries. .... Iommi aka Sabbath , almost made the mistake - releasing Sabbath's 12 studio release as a solo album ,,, yet my man Don Arden made sure that did not happen ,,, forever changing the Sabbath legacy for the better , and securing the likes of albums such as "Fused" to be talked about , right along side of MOR as some of Sabbath's best work!

                        Interesting that you comment that 7the star doesn't have the Sabbath sound .... when in fact it is more tuned to orginal sabbath , then Heaven n Hell and Mob Rules .... it incorporates a blues foundation through out ..... as for quality of music it stands along side the first eleven without even blinking. Takes Sabbath to a level they hadn't explored yet , "integrity" is growth man , enjoy it - cause most bands can only dream of it ..... and who would have known at the time of its incredible release that 7th star and the 11 before it ,,, were about to be put on watch , in the truest sense , of what "greatness" is capable of - with Sabbath's landmark ETERNAL IDOL!!


                        pleasure responding to your post lately , just solidifies time and again , how timeless Sabbath truly are - weather it be the extreme diversity of TE , or the over the top magic of 7th star!! ... thanks brother and God bless.
                        Excellent post doc!! \m/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                          Turch , you and Ronn are the Sabbath purist , it's obvious in your post .... don't mistake a lack of knowledge , as a stance of truth.



                          My good friend "the sabbath historian" ,,,, the one interesting thing from your above post outside of all the inaccuracies .... is the fact you give the 5 star , 7th Star release - 2 stars .... yet the 5 star TE and NSD you give only one star ..... interesting ,,,, now - that's 7th star as a non Sabbath release ,,, if that's the case - what is Paranoid's rating as a non sabbath release. .... makes about as much sense.

                          7th star actually had very good commercial success on its release ,, sold well ,, peaked in the 70's on the billboard 200 chart .... peaked in the top 20 in 15 other countries. .... Iommi aka Sabbath , almost made the mistake - releasing Sabbath's 12 studio release as a solo album ,,, yet my man Don Arden made sure that did not happen ,,, forever changing the Sabbath legacy for the better , and securing the likes of albums such as "Fused" to be talked about , right along side of MOR as some of Sabbath's best work!

                          Interesting that you comment that 7the star doesn't have the Sabbath sound .... when in fact it is more tuned to orginal sabbath , then Heaven n Hell and Mob Rules .... it incorporates a blues foundation through out ..... as for quality of music it stands along side the first eleven without even blinking. Takes Sabbath to a level they hadn't explored yet , "integrity" is growth man , enjoy it - cause most bands can only dream of it ..... and who would have known at the time of its incredible release that 7th star and the 11 before it ,,, were about to be put on watch , in the truest sense , of what "greatness" is capable of - with Sabbath's landmark ETERNAL IDOL!!


                          pleasure responding to your post lately , just solidifies time and again , how timeless Sabbath truly are - weather it be the extreme diversity of TE , or the over the top magic of 7th star!! ... thanks brother and God bless.
                          'BTE', thanks for responding. Respectfully, I can't rate 'Paranoid' as a "Black Sabbath Featuring Tony Iommi" album because it wasn't. Can you imagine the heat Tony would've taken for that in 1970 ( ) ?

                          Kidding aside, by releasing 'Seventh Star' as a "Black Sabbath" album, how did it "change the legacy of Sabbath for the better"? If anything, the credibility of the band's name diminished ( at the time ). I certainly respect your opinion on all things Sabbath, but referring to 'Eternal Idol' as a "landmark" ( ?? ) album is really stretching it. Like 'Seventh Star' before it, it was really "more in tune" with the Whitesnake/Dokken blueprint ( NOT the original Sabbath ), with Iommi's "stamp" on it. Rightly OR wrongly, it leans more towards 80's commercial hard rock. Again, it has it's shining ( ) moments, but it's definitely not a landmark album, in my opinion. Respect ( ).
                          Last edited by A Sabbath Historian; 06-11-2015, 12:35 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
                            'BDE', thanks for responding. Respectfully, I can't rate 'Paranoid' as a "Black Sabbath Featuring Tony Iommi" album because it wasn't. Can you imagine the heat Tony would've taken for that in 1970 ( ) ?

                            Kidding aside, by releasing 'Seventh Star' as a "Black Sabbath" album, how did it "change the legacy of Sabbath for the better"? If anything, the credibility of the band's name diminished ( at the time ). I certainly respect your opinion on all things Sabbath, but referring to 'Eternal Idol' as a "landmark" ( ?? ) album is really stretching it. Like 'Seventh Star' before it, it was really "more in tune" with the Whitesnake/Dokken blueprint ( NOT the original Sabbath ), with Iommi's "stamp" on it. Rightly OR wrongly, it leans more towards 80's commercial hard rock. Again, it has it's shining ( ) moments, but it's definitely not a landmark album, in my opinion. Respect ( ).
                            You know what pee's me off , is you get to make all these kool faces , sunglasses and everything else .... and all I know how to do is this fn face

                            By preserving the Sabbath name , rightfully so , for the 7th Star gem ... Sabbath became greater and more diverse ... musically there was growth and maturity ... they became more then just the sound we associate with the Oz , Dio and Born Again material ... it adds so much more to what and who they are , right along with NSD .... growth ,,, for us true , and I mean die hard Sabbath aficionado's!! .... there integrity grew in spades with such diversity and depth!

                            ... there is nothing Whitesnake or Dokken about 7th Star in any way , shape or form .... it's electric blues under current is more reminiscent of the Debut album than anything else ... yes no doubt with a polished 80's vibe to it , but that in and of itself is where the genius is found ... brilliant!

                            .... Landmark Sabbath releases on this very day are looked apon as The Debut , Paranoid , Sabbath bloody Sabbath , Heaven n Hell , Headless Cross , Tdyk and 13 .... i would argue Eternal Idol as part of the Sabbath family , is as landmark as any of those .... Eternal Idol is pure Sabbath tone from start to finish , one of the most brilliant Sabbath releases to ever see the light of day .... again there is ZERO similarities between this gem here and any other band in the world.

                            .... it's intriguing that Dr fukk , William , ur self reference Whitesnake when discussing the impeccable Martin era , for it is 100 % inaccurate in every way imaginable , in fact out side of the world beater Headless Cross .... the Martin era is one of the single most unique foundations in music.

                            What is happening with myself and Sabbath , is as deep rooted to the core as one could ever be ,,, Iommi has a sound so orginal , that IS always Black Sabbath , that if one doesn't get it , they never will .... it's like cold fresh water when your dieing of thirst , it just feels right .... and Sabbath has done it 27 astonishing times! .... that when people on a Sabbath forum created by someone who gets it , don't get it .... it makes me say "hmmmmmmm" ,,,, and in my real life Sabbath world , I'm use to those who get it.

                            Respect brother , Doc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I like 7th Star, but I do think that Tony should have committed to a position, and stuck to it, without playing both sides of the fence. Call it Black Sabbath, like Zeppelin did with LZ III, and defend the need for a change of artistic flavour. Or, call it a Tony Iommi solo album, but don't try and have it both ways. Notwithstanding, I like the disc, but I have an affinity for underdog albums from bands, because they are usually very good, albeit different; and that "difference" can rub fans the wrong way. I usually enjoy an artistic change of pace from established artists, as long as it doesn't come across as too contrived.
                              Last edited by Now in Darkness; 03-17-2015, 07:28 PM.
                              Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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