Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The "truth" behind 'Seventh Star' : Your thoughts?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Kennyz View Post
    That is not a complete list.Do you mean that the rest of their albums is not Black Sabbath?
    For me; yes.
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
    Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

    Comment


    • This thread is nuts. It's not as simple to discount something someone doesn't like and claim "let's get the truth". I hate that. Just cuz one doesn't like something doesn't mean it's not true.
      Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
      View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

      "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DiosSword View Post

        Of course, Geezer would probably tell a different story, since he says that the Born Again and Cross Purposes lineups he appeared on were not intended to be Sabbath albums...yet he still appeared on and toured under that name with those albums, and both Ian Gillan and Tony Martin have said that they were intended from the outset to be Sabbath albums.
        In many ways, this quote from DS sums up why I started this thread in the first place. Why is the stock answer of "we never intended it to be a Black Sabbath album" so prevalent with these guys? It's absolutely embarrassing.

        Frankly, I find that extremely disingenuous and dishonest, NOT to mention DISGRACEFUL ()! If those albums hit the top 10, they would NEVER have said that. I stand by that to this day.

        To be clear, it has NOTHING to do if one likes the album or not. That's not the point, like some have implied or stated throughout the thread. Because of such inconsistencies, is it any wonder why the Sabbath name was in the toilet during that time? ...

        Your thoughts?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
          To be clear, it has NOTHING to do if one likes the album or not.
          Don't know about any others, but i get that. Joe clearly don't.
          It's about the whole "featuring Tony Iommi"-moniker and how a solo album came to be a Sabbath album. And is it really a Sabbath album..?
          And for that it's been a great thread, SabHist.
          If someone (me?) puts in a joke about how the album sucks every now and then, and people don't get the joke, well... Not my fault.

          Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
          Because of such inconsistencies, is it any wonder why the Sabbath name was in the toilet during that time? ...

          Your thoughts?
          It's exactly because of the inconsistency from Born Again to Headless Cross, mainly with vocalists both on the albums and in between, but also as a band, that the Sabbath name lost it's power in the mid/late 80's.
          Eternal Idol is just as much an Iommi solo-album as 7th Star in a way, it's not until Cozy Powell came along that Sabbath became a real band again.

          Disregard the music, and this is one of the most interesting periods in the Sabbath history for a geek.
          Last edited by Billy Underdog; 10-25-2017, 12:58 AM.
          95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
          Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
            Don't know about any others, but i get that. Joe clearly don't.
            It's about the whole "featuring Tony Iommi"-moniker and how a solo album came to be a Sabbath album. And is it really a Sabbath album..?
            And for that it's been a great thread, SabHist.
            If someone (me?) puts in a joke about how the album sucks every now and then, and people don't get the joke, well... Not my fault.



            It's exactly because of the inconsistency from Born Again to Headless Cross, mainly with vocalists both on the albums and in between, but also as a band, that the Sabbath name lost it's power in the mid/late 80's.
            Eternal Idol is just as much an Iommi solo-album as 7th Star in a way, it's not until Cozy Powell came along that Sabbath became a real band again.

            Disregard the music, and this is one of the most interesting periods in the Sabbath history for a geek.

            Well said BU, particularly your last comment. Respect.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
              In many ways, this quote from DS sums up why I started this thread in the first place. Why is the stock answer of "we never intended it to be a Black Sabbath album" so prevalent with these guys? It's absolutely embarrassing.

              Frankly, I find that extremely disingenuous and dishonest, NOT to mention DISGRACEFUL ()! If those albums hit the top 10, they would NEVER have said that. I stand by that to this day.

              To be clear, it has NOTHING to do if one likes the album or not. That's not the point, like some have implied or stated throughout the thread. Because of such inconsistencies, is it any wonder why the Sabbath name was in the toilet during that time? ...

              Your thoughts?
              Problem is .... your point is not only inaccurate , it doesn't exist in real time , you just regurgitate the same rehashed stupidity over and again .... it's not that it's a bad thing , it's just embarrassing that your thought process on THIS subject is allowed on these boards ,,, but "hey" to each his own - flies stand by sh*t , so why shouldn't you.

              God Bless

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                Problem is .... your point is not only inaccurate , it doesn't exist in real time , you just regurgitate the same rehashed stupidity over and again .... it's not that it's a bad thing , it's just embarrassing that your thought process on THIS subject is allowed on these boards ,,, but "hey" to each his own - flies stand by sh*t , so why shouldn't you.

                God Bless
                Dude, THIS is embarrassing. One thing is your general "i know best"-attitude, we're used to that. But dissing SabHist, saying his thoughts don't belong on these boards (no matter the subject), that's beneath you, Doc.
                Last edited by Billy Underdog; 10-26-2017, 01:28 AM.
                95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                Comment


                • ^^These boards need a like button.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                    Problem is .... your point is not only inaccurate , it doesn't exist in real time , you just regurgitate the same rehashed stupidity over and again .... it's not that it's a bad thing , it's just embarrassing that your thought process on THIS subject is allowed on these boards ,,, but "hey" to each his own - flies stand by sh*t , so why shouldn't you.

                    God Bless
                    Right on Doc \m/

                    Shut down those who create incendiary rhetoric, Boom!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
                      Dude, THIS is embarrassing. One thing is your general "i know best"-attitude, we're used to that. But dissing SabHist, saying his thoughts don't belong on these boards (no matter the subject), that's beneath you, Doc.
                      Beneath him? I don't know...that seems like a very typical belittling, inflamatory and idiotic Doc post to me...95% of his posts are like that. Douche is as douche does.

                      Comment


                      • Sooo... Before Joe kill the thread;

                        Seventh Star must be considered the quintessential "Hair Metal" album...

                        95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                        Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                          Problem is .... your point is not only inaccurate , it doesn't exist in real time , you just regurgitate the same rehashed stupidity over and again .... it's not that it's a bad thing , it's just embarrassing that your thought process on THIS subject is allowed on these boards ,,, but "hey" to each his own - flies stand by sh*t , so why shouldn't you.

                          God Bless
                          Unfortunately BTE and ronn, neither of you (or myself) can erase the tumultuous history of Seventh Star. Fairly or unfairly. We can only discuss it as fans, regardless of where we stand on this topic.

                          Furthermore, hurling insults toward other members won't change that history either, as much as you two seemingly believe it will. Respect.

                          Without further ado, please, let's continue this discussion of Seventh Star. Pro AND con!

                          Comment


                          • ^^^

                            Doc: that's called turning the other cheek!
                            95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                            Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                            Comment


                            • LOL , come on Billy - your better than that .... (I love how that works) ..... You know your scriptures , ya? ,,,, "To turn the other cheek" is the flip side of "Casting the first stone" - without one you have no chance for the other ,,, BUT - what they both have in common , IS - one must have substance to act apon , and in this case the OP does not , so anything proceeding is nothing more than a fanciful notion.


                              Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
                              Unfortunately BTE and ronn, neither of you (or myself) can erase the tumultuous history of Seventh Star. Fairly or unfairly. We can only discuss it as fans, regardless of where we stand on this topic.

                              Furthermore, hurling insults toward other members won't change that history either, as much as you two seemingly believe it will. Respect.

                              Without further ado, please, let's continue this discussion of Seventh Star. Pro AND con!
                              Please understand this ,,, Ronn on this subject is obviously a cheerleader (a very smart one at that) , reading his reaction to mine - shows no disrespect toward you , he just states the obvious , I don't believe his love for "7th Star" is the reason for his thoughts .... Jack is harmless .... Charger , well he's been through a lot .... and Billy (who I love) , isn't sure where he is half the time (his words , not mine) - it would be like jumping on "DARKEST LIGHT" for doing exactly what you do (without malice) , and than thinking he's defending against someone for doing the same.

                              All commendable in its own way ....

                              As for yourself , you have been given the facts - clearly , undisputedly and repeatedly (due to your obsession) ,,,, and that's fine if it's a honest quirk .... and if that is the case - I am truly sorry for hurting your feelings again , was not my intent ..... But if your motives are otherwise , these words are not an "insult" , just a description of what is -

                              Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                              Problem is .... your point is not only inaccurate , it doesn't exist in real time , you just regurgitate the same rehashed stupidity over and again .... it's not that it's a bad thing , it's just embarrassing that your thought process on THIS subject is allowed on these boards ,,, but "hey" to each his own - flies stand by sh*t , so why shouldn't you.

                              God Bless

                              So Historian(?) , to help you once again , and to get us back on subject (as you ALL seem to repeat over and again) - Read and PLEASE - try to learn.


                              Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                              As respectful as I possibly can say this , nothing above is accurate .... and it wasnt til "bingo" that I was like ok , one "historian" confused as a pig in shit is fine , but to then pat someone on the back for assuming an innocent senerio was what lead to an end result ... and misleading the poor bastard in believing his own inaccuracies, well , with my band "Black Sabbath" is Un fn acceptable...

                              .... first of all the below post is THE "ONLY" TRUTH on Sabbath's masterpiece Seventh Star in this thead ..... any post above included here for future readers , is a pile of pseudo lack of knowledge and understanding .... disregard it as comic book reading ,, for the facts on the Success of Seventh Star and for the facts on the reasons the band name was changed on Seventh Star (and thank fn goodness it was - the album is as Black Sabbath as Black Sabbath gets) ... Read the Back to Eden post below.


                              """Turch , you and Ronn are the Sabbath purist , it's obvious in your post .... don't mistake a lack of knowledge , as a stance of truth.


                              My good friend "the sabbath historian" ,,,, the one interesting thing from your above post outside of all the inaccuracies .... is the fact you give the 5 star , 7th Star release - 2 stars .... yet the 5 star TE and NSD you give only one star ..... interesting ,,,, now - that's 7th star as a non Sabbath release ,,, if that's the case - what is Paranoid's rating as a non sabbath release. .... makes about as much sense.

                              7th star actually had very good commercial success on its release ,, sold well ,, peaked in the 70's on the billboard 200 chart .... peaked in the top 20 in 15 other countries. .... Iommi aka Sabbath , almost made the mistake - releasing Sabbath's 12 studio release as a solo album ,,, yet my man Don Arden made sure that did not happen ,,, forever changing the Sabbath legacy for the better , and securing the likes of albums such as "Fused" to be talked about , right along side of MOR as some of Sabbath's best work!

                              Interesting that you comment that 7th star doesn't have the Sabbath sound .... when in fact it is more tuned to orginal sabbath , than Heaven n Hell and Mob Rules .... it incorporates a blues foundation through out ..... as for quality of music it stands along side the first eleven without even blinking. Takes Sabbath to a level they hadn't explored yet , "integrity" is growth man , enjoy it - cause most bands can only dream of it ..... and who would have known at the time of its incredible release that 7th star and the 11 before it ,,, were about to be put on watch , in the truest sense , of what "greatness" is capable of - with Sabbath's landmark ETERNAL IDOL!!


                              pleasure responding to your post lately , just solidifies time and again , how timeless Sabbath truly are - weather it be the extreme diversity of TE , or the over the top magic of 7th star!! ... thanks brother and God bless."""""


                              Iommi's ONLY intent every step of the way was to release SEVENTH STAR as a solo album - as we now know even if he had , it would still be considered to be Black Sabbath by the truest Sabbath purist , affeciodoes ..... thank goodness Don Arden and Warren Brothers ceo / rep Hillcrest had other ideas and changed the name after post production .... I actually have , not one but TWO sets of pre and post production acetate's of 7th Star to back this up ,, sorry Aggy ,,, much like the Ward crap and the Bonus track crap .... I'm growing tired of stupidity and bullshit.

                              .... for those who don't know , an acetate back in the day , 30 years ago , was as close to a finish product of final recordings and details , for bands to leave in the mercy of record companies and management to do what they want with.

                              .... As for "bingo" ,,, Iommi did all he could to recruit different star vocalist of the day for his solo release ,,, if he had waited , many were going to take him up on the project , but due to record company deadlines , legal name changing contracts , touring responsibility for other artist ... Iommi went in a different direction for his "solo" release ....

                              He started to clearly work on his solo material with a relatively unknown in Jeff Fenholt , great stuff by the way ,, more amazing Sabbath material .... "Star of India" ; but depending on who you ask , Iommi told me himself that it was a difference in lyrics to lead in Jeff being let go from the solo project and the impeccable Hughes being settled apon ,, others clearly state Don Arden as the one to change vocalist from Jeff to Glenn.

                              Anyway Glenn came in and Seventh Star the "solo" album was complete and sent in for release , the rest is Black Sabbath history ,,, and thank goodness for us it ended up carrying the name it should have from the very start ,,, even better that it threw in the featuring Iommi moniker , forever securing the Sabbath / Iommi aka's!!!


                              EDIT , not my copies ,,, but case and f***ING point ,,, http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/foursab...ARACETATE.html

                              .... further more look at the date on this guy's acetate , less then 4 wks later 7th Star was available for purchase ,, and in less then 8 to 10 wks it was available worldwide for sale and distribution .... that has record company written all over it - and Donny boy ofcourse ,,

                              ,,, BUT as I have said ... it means NOTHING , SABBATH'S name was IOMMI'S baby to do what he wanted with ( RIGHTFULLY SO) .... and what he ended up doing , directly and INDIRECTLY , was taking Sabbath from an amazing band to the "best history of an artist" this world has ever seen .... Amen to that!!


                              God Bless fellow Sabaknites!!!

                              God Bless

                              Comment


                              • Awesome Doc!

                                Haha
                                EDIT , not my copies ,,, but case and f***ING point ,,, http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/foursab...ARACETATE.html

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X