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Why The Hate For "Black Rain" & "Scream"?

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  • Why The Hate For "Black Rain" & "Scream"?

    Seems like these two albums are disowned by fans. Why?

  • #2
    First of all welcome to the board!

    Second, there is a section here called Side/Solo/Related bands, this should be there.

    Third, Black Rain & Scream are disowned because simply put they suck. Black Rain to a lesser extenct since it still has Zakk, but Scream is a giant pile of turd. Ozzy's overuse of vocal enhancement makes him sound like a robot. Which only leads me to believe he doesn't even trust his own vocal abilities even in studio! And the Zakk wannabe Gus G is just godawful....Zakk has more talent in his beard than that guy!

    Comment


    • #3
      Two passionless, overproduced albums made with the help of an outside writer whose aim was to make Ozzy sound contemporary. I may be a poor judge, because I haven't liked Ozzy's outings sine Bark At The Moon (with the exclusion of No More Tears,) but these two albums don't even remotely sound like vintage Ozzy.

      Black Rain has a tired, disinterested Wylde who at that point had already become a parody of himself with the overuse of pinch harmonics, chorused metal tone and etc.

      Scream has Gus G, who is arguably cabable and talented axe slinger, but sadly a really bland stereotypical modern day shredder, not deserving to fill the shoes of the likes of Rhoads and k E. Lee. But to give credit where it's due, Diggin' Me Down is a really good tune, but that's about it. So I guess Scream beats Black Rain

      All in all the albums are very forgettable and boring. All the songs follow the same pattern with a huge emphasis on the chours section. I guess the albums could be labeled as pop metal.
      "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
      "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
      "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

      Comment


      • #4
        I like'em... Not afraid to say it.
        www.downtrendmetal.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow. Thanks. I asked and got thorough answers. I agree with much of the objections but I actually like Ozzy's "robot" voice rather than his strained nasally wail but TEHO

          Comment


          • #6
            Black Rain:

            The Good: I think the song Nightmare (on the import & expanded editions) is great, and should have been put on a movie soundtrack so more people heard it, should've had a video made for it. Its really the only good song Ozzy released in 2007.

            The Bad:
            Where to begin? This one has all kinds of problems. Firstly The music itself. It's pseudo gothy industrial rock ala Rob Zombie. I fucken HATE Rob Zombie. Always have. Too many songs are in a similar tempo, so there's no variety at all. After about the 3rd or 4th song it doesn't matter that it's a different song. All the parts are so interchangeable yet identical, this album is like a set of Legos. I think 11 Silver is the only song above 110 bpm but its boring as well. And lets talk about the drums for a second.. I think Mike Bordin is one of today's best and most imaginative rock drummers, and he's criminally underutilized on this album in the worst way. Might as well be a drum machine instead of using Mike.

            Black Rain is also missing a vital element contained on ALL other Ozzy albums : A GUITAR RIFF. In the past Zakk Wylde was a master at pulling out these awesome sometimes imaginative and inventive riffs that has always been indicative of Ozzy's music. Sometimes they're simple but just classic Ozzy. I mean Miracle Man, Bloodbath in Paradise, Desire, even Perry Mason has a riff. Compare those to something like I Dont Wanna Stop or Almighty Dollar. There's no Riff! Listen to Not Going Away, okay there's a riff there. But it's so dull , totally uninspired and lacks that Ozzy quality. Crazy Babies has more going for it then this. You could probably chalk this up to Kevin Churko's involvement. Churko is credited on every song as a collaborator. Although I dont know how much of a hand he had in writing the music here, vs. lyrics. So I'll just say if he wrote the music, he needs to discover how to build a riff first before working with a singer known for iconic songs with riffs such as Paranoid, and Crazy Train.

            Now, I am one here that despite not liking his albums a lot, still consider myself a Zakk Wylde fan. Although I gotta agree with some of the other critics here on the boards, his act has gotten tremendously stale over the years. The pinch harmonics every 3 seconds, and his same arsenal of licks again and again just sounds too repetitive. On the previous album Down to Earth, Zakk really surprised me by adding a lot of new phrasing and interesting solo's to that album. He was upset and fighting a lot with the producer of that album, and I think it shows in his playing on that album. The anger really fueled his creativity.


            Lastly Im going to address the ballad on this album. At this point its no secret that Ozzy loves a ballad, and loves pretending to be John Lennon. On certain albums I enjoy it too. This ballad is just sort of formulaic. I'm sure the message was heartfelt from Ozzy to Sharon. But its sort of trite and just the same re-re-re-do of Mama Im coming home for 2007. While these types of ballads are somewhat an Ozzy staple; Black Rain isn't a classic Ozzy album in the least. It sounds to me more like an experiment to make the Ozzy "product" seem modern and hip. Sort of like Ozzy is Pepsi and they're changing the color of the can.



            Scream -
            The Good: This album seemed to correct a number of the issues found on Black Rain. Despite stealing the rest of Zombie's rhythm section, the Zombie like production is definitely toned down somewhat. The songs vary quite a bit in tempo, many times within the same song. Gus G is a welcome breath of fresh air. While he does a lot to conform to the Ozzy format (regardless of his neoclassical shredding in Firewind, Gus sticks to much more of a blues based Zakk Wylde type approach rather or at least much more then a Randy Rhoads/ Malmsteen classical approach), what I think is a big positive is that Gus doesn't roll out the same 12 signature guitar licks on every song. The songs are a lot more melodic and varied musically as well, compared to the monotony of Black Rain. There's not a ton of big guitar riffs, as I'd hoped on Scream, but they're there at times. It was enough of a step in the right direction that I bought it the day it came out. I think Crucify and Fearless are great. Fearless in particular sounds to me like it could be found on No Rest, No More Tears, or anything else Wylde might have written in the past. Time is also a much better Ballad then the one found on Rain. I think the positives are also evident due to Adam Wakeman's participation in the writing. There's just more going on musically. Want it More is a little less unique but I still enjoy it for the most part.

            The Bad: Some of the Lego songwriting is still here. For instance the first part of Let it die, and the end section of the guitar solo have nothing in common (tempo or harmonically) with the verses or the chorus. Its really sort of slapped together almost clumsily. Although I do admit in a way it reminds me of some Sabbath music found on songs like Wheels of Confusion or Under The Sun, so I give it a pass for that reason. Next, if you listen to an instrumental version of the song Scream, you're essentially listening to a Rob Zombie song. But, its a better song; or at least then anything on Black Rain. Its in a tempo that's reminiscent of classic Ozzy tracks like I Don't Know, and Miracle Man, and there's a little riffing in there at times, so I give it a pass. However Soul Sucker does not get a pass. This song sounds like a leftover Black Rain song, and completely bores me. Life Wont Wait, also just doesn't work for me. The parts where it gets heavier sounds alright to me, but the verses sound too light and poppy. Latimers Mercy is alright I suppose but just doesn't stand out to me for some reason.

            Next on my hitlist is the production. The huge distorted bass lacks definition and muddies up the overall presentation. Also Gus' rhythm guitars sound very processed and modern. At times they punch the way they should (like on Fearless) but I really would have preferred more of a raw sound, simple, approach. And all the strange spooky clicks beeps and other industrial clutter found on the album is so superfluous and unnecessary. I'm just sort of tired of it. It was interesting like 22 years ago when Trent Reznor used it. But now you hear it everywhere, its in movies & tv, its on albums; its passe and tired.

            So overall I like the Scream album as compared to my hatred for Black Rain. Scream is nowhere near a perfect Ozzy album. But I think it has enough positive to make it worth returning to every few months or so.
            Last edited by devstorm; 01-04-2013, 10:29 AM.
            The best blueberry muffins I ever had landed 6 people in prison, three for life.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by devstorm View Post
              Black Rain:

              The Good: I think the song Nightmare (on the import & expanded editions) is great, and should have been put on a movie soundtrack so more people heard it, should've had a video made for it. Its really the only good song Ozzy released in 2007.

              The Bad:
              Where to begin? This one has all kinds of problems. Firstly The music itself. It's pseudo gothy industrial rock ala Rob Zombie. I fucken HATE Rob Zombie. Always have. Too many songs are in a similar tempo, so there's no variety at all. After about the 3rd or 4th song it doesn't matter that it's a different song. All the parts are so interchangeable yet identical, this album is like a set of Legos. I think 11 Silver is the only song above 110 bpm but its boring as well. And lets talk about the drums for a second.. I think Mike Bordin is one of today's best and most imaginative rock drummers, and he's criminally underutilized on this album in the worst way. Might as well be a drum machine instead of using Mike.

              Black Rain is also missing a vital element contained on ALL other Ozzy albums : A GUITAR RIFF. In the past Zakk Wylde was a master at pulling out these awesome sometimes imaginative and inventive riffs that has always been indicative of Ozzy's music. Sometimes they're simple but just classic Ozzy. I mean Miracle Man, Bloodbath in Paradise, Desire, even Perry Mason has a riff. Compare those to something like I Dont Wanna Stop or Almighty Dollar. There's no Riff! Listen to Not Going Away, okay there's a riff there. But it's so dull , totally uninspired and lacks that Ozzy quality. Crazy Babies has more going for it then this. You could probably chalk this up to Kevin Churko's involvement. Churko is credited on every song as a collaborator. Although I dont know how much of a hand he had in writing the music here, vs. lyrics. So I'll just say if he wrote the music, he needs to discover how to build a riff first before working with a singer known for iconic songs with riffs such as Paranoid, and Crazy Train.

              Now, I am one here that despite not liking his albums a lot, still consider myself a Zakk Wylde fan. Although I gotta agree with some of the other critics here on the boards, his act has gotten tremendously stale over the years. The pinch harmonics every 3 seconds, and his same arsenal of licks again and again just sounds too repetitive. On the previous album Down to Earth, Zakk really surprised me by adding a lot of new phrasing and interesting solo's to that album. He was upset and fighting a lot with the producer of that album, and I think it shows in his playing on that album. The anger really fueled his creativity.


              Lastly Im going to address the ballad on this album. At this point its no secret that Ozzy loves a ballad, and loves pretending to be John Lennon. On certain albums I enjoy it too. This ballad is just sort of formulaic. I'm sure the message was heartfelt from Ozzy to Sharon. But its sort of trite and just the same re-re-re-do of Mama Im coming home for 2007. While these types of ballads are somewhat an Ozzy staple; Black Rain isn't a classic Ozzy album in the least. It sounds to me more like an experiment to make the Ozzy "product" seem modern and hip. Sort of like Ozzy is Pepsi and they're changing the color of the can.



              Scream -
              The Good: This album seemed to correct a number of the issues found on Black Rain. Despite stealing the rest of Zombie's rhythm section, the Zombie like production is definitely toned down somewhat. The songs vary quite a bit in tempo, many times within the same song. Gus G is a welcome breath of fresh air. While he does a lot to conform to the Ozzy format (regardless of his neoclassical shredding in Firewind, Gus sticks to much more of a blues based Zakk Wylde type approach rather or at least much more then a Randy Rhoads/ Malmsteen classical approach), what I think is a big positive is that Gus doesn't roll out the same 12 signature guitar licks on every song. The songs are a lot more melodic and varied musically as well, compared to the monotony of Black Rain. There's not a ton of big guitar riffs, as I'd hoped on Scream, but they're there at times. It was enough of a step in the right direction that I bought it the day it came out. I think Crucify and Fearless are great. Fearless in particular sounds to me like it could be found on No Rest, No More Tears, or anything else Wylde might have written in the past. Time is also a much better Ballad then the one found on Rain. I think the positives are also evident due to Adam Wakeman's participation in the writing. There's just more going on musically. Want it More is a little less unique but I still enjoy it for the most part.

              The Bad: Some of the Lego songwriting is still here. For instance the first part of Let it die, and the end section of the guitar solo have nothing in common (tempo or harmonically) with the verses or the chorus. Its really sort of slapped together almost clumsily. Although I do admit in a way it reminds me of some Sabbath music found on songs like Wheels of Confusion or Under The Sun, so I give it a pass for that reason. Next, if you listen to an instrumental version of the song Scream, you're essentially listening to a Rob Zombie song. But, its a better song; or at least then anything on Black Rain. Its in a tempo that's reminiscent of classic Ozzy tracks like I Don't Know, and Miracle Man, and there's a little riffing in there at times, so I give it a pass. However Soul Sucker does not get a pass. This song sounds like a leftover Black Rain song, and completely bores me. Life Wont Wait, also just doesn't work for me. The parts where it gets heavier sounds alright to me, but the verses sound too light and poppy. Latimers Mercy is alright I suppose but just doesn't stand out to me for some reason.

              Next on my hitlist is the production. The huge distorted bass lacks definition and muddies up the overall presentation. Also Gus' rhythm guitars sound very processed and modern. At times they punch the way they should (like on Fearless) but I really would have preferred more of a raw sound, simple, approach. And all the strange spooky clicks beeps and other industrial clutter found on the album is so superfluous and unnecessary. I'm just sort of tired of it. It was interesting like 22 years ago when Trent Reznor used it. But now you hear it everywhere, its in movies & tv, its on albums; its passe and tired.

              So overall I like the Scream album as compared to my hatred for Black Rain. Scream is nowhere near a perfect Ozzy album. But I think it has enough positive to make it worth returning to every few months or so.
              Niiiice. Much respect. I admit I'm not an Ozzy fan. I hadn't purchased an Ozzy album since "Bark At The Moon", which I thought was a mixed bag but I recently picked up the two latest albums and I quite liked them but I definitely see your point after reading yours and others comments. It's a manufactured piece of fluff but I dunno maybe that's what I've been in the mood for? I'm curious now what do you consider the TOP 2 Ozzy solo albums and why?

              Comment


              • #8
                very surprised.
                I have always believed that there was a topic on which album was the best solo album of Ozzy.
                but not found.

                So even if this question isn't in the correct category:

                "Blizzard of Ozz" and "Diary of a madman". Why? Simply because of the presence and talent of Randy . The other musicians were real beasts.

                I should also mention "Bark at the Moon". I always liked the playing intensity of Jake ... and Bob Daisley was still here.
                Last edited by TYR66; 01-04-2013, 01:16 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by YADF View Post
                  I'm curious now what do you consider the TOP 2 Ozzy solo albums and why?
                  Well I've been on the bandwagon since 1982. And Tyr's sentiments mirror my own. Randy was the perfect architect for Ozzy's new career. And each time I listen to those two, I find new elements that just blow my mind.

                  With that said, I was such a devoted fan of Randy's, (and then to a lesser extent Gillis, & Lee) that Ozzy was sort of secondary to me for most of the 80's. It wasn't until No Rest came out that I realized how much I did enjoy Ozzy's voice. No Rest For the Wicked stood out to me as well due to the actual melodies Ozzy sang. At no point earlier did the vocals remind me of Ozzy's work with Sabbath so much. The songs themselves weren't Sabbath like, but the melodies for some reason to me hearkened back to other albums Id listened to in the intervening years (Sabbath Bloody, Sabotage being 2 I played heavily around that time). So about 1988 is when I became a bonafide Ozzy fan. Still the guitar playing aspect is what attracted me to Ozzy initially and until Under Covers came out (and then Black Rain) I wasn't ever disappointed.

                  But really there's only 4 Ozzy albums I'm not fond of; Ultimate Sin, Ozzmosis, Under Covers and Black Rain. Sin & Ozzmosis do have songs I like; but overall I think the albums are a little lackluster. Sin more for the reasons of the sound. That album would benefit GREATLY by getting a full remix. Ron Nevison made it so glitzy and gave it a pop sound that even the opener with these heavy hitting thunderous toms, and Jake E Lee drop tuned and crunching, it still sounded safe, tame and watered down. It bums me out because I could imagine how heavy those guys sounded in the rehearsal room working on that song. And Nevison made the fucken thing sound like a Nevil brothers or Joe Cocker album. Its a fricken crime against humanity what he did to that album. Ozzmosis gets a similar treatment to Black Rain. The guitars sound really lush with effects, and have this sort of ultra modern approach. The songs all seem to dwell within the same tempo's, and half the album seems to be ballads. There's only one really moderate tempo song. I always favored Ozzy's faster material like I Don't Know, Over The Mountain, and Bark At The Moon. That producer Michael Beinhorn was quoted as saying he wanted to make Ozzmosis a Sabbath album. But #1 Ozzy isn't Sabbath; #2 if you wanna work with Sabbath & Iommi you should have worked on Forbidden instead (Because that album sounds worse then Ozzmosis).
                  So he drove the tempo's down on songs to get more of a dirgey feel. But in my opinion there are good songs to be found on both albums. Black Rain really is the one that I find lacks anything redemptive (Minus the track I mentioned in the posting before).

                  Anyway YADF I didn't say it before but welcome to the forums.
                  The best blueberry muffins I ever had landed 6 people in prison, three for life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The one thing I didn't like about the Randy Rhodes era Ozzy was the album production, compared to H&H and Mob Rules, Sabbath's production (Martin Birch) blows away Ozzy's 2 rival albums...
                    "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                    R. Blackmore

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've tried a number of times to listen to Black Rain and Scream and tried to get into them and in the end, I just don't like them. Black Rain IMO sucks, but Scream is just absolutely repulsive. If you can get something out of those albums, You're a better man than I. I'll probably try to listen to them again because of this thread, But I'm thinking they're just not my cup of tea. Welcome to the forum YADF!
                      Last edited by Axe fiend; 01-04-2013, 04:20 PM.
                      We donít see things as they are; we see them as we are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I liked Scream when it first came out, but not anymore. Both albums are garbage. Black Rain would have been a lot better if Ozzy had used a different guitarist and a decent producer.

                        I regret choosing "Soul Sucker" as my username.
                        Can you sleep at night, when you close your eyes
                        Do you think of all the pain from your lies
                        Or do you deny, you're responsible
                        For the victims of the sins you devised

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Soul Sucker View Post

                          I regret choosing "Soul Sucker" as my username.

                          ROTFL!!! I've always wondered what your take was on that song. Glad to see we think alike on this subject. You should ask Joe about changing it.
                          The best blueberry muffins I ever had landed 6 people in prison, three for life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i hate the song Perry Mason
                            ~Chris
                            "Too many people advising me, but they don't know what my eyes see." ~ The Writ

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chris Webster View Post
                              i hate the song Perry Mason
                              ~Chris
                              Perry Mason is a top 5 Ozzy solo song for me. I also think Soul Sucker is one of the best songs off of Black Rain or Scream. I love your reviews though Devstorm. Thanks for such a thought out intelligent review even if I don't agree with everything you say. I do agree that both albums suffer miserably by the lack of riffs and it is something that I have been complaining about as well. I also like Scream way better than Black Rain. Ozzy sounds much better and the songs are just flat out better. I think Scream is a very strong record where Black Rain is his second worst of his career besides Down To Earth (I don't count Under Cover).

                              Favorites are Soul Sucker, Life Won't Wait, Digging Me Down, Crucify and Latimer's Mercy (Lyrics are amazing).
                              Religion won't save me
                              The damage is done
                              The future has ended
                              Before it's begun
                              - Damaged Soul - Black Sabbath

                              Comment

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