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Need advice on Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon

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  • #31
    Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -responses

    It depends on what you already have. If you already have Ozzy's first solo ("Blizzard of Ozz"), then I would suggest to get BATM. If you haven't, then get DOAM.

    The reason I say this is that although DOAM is a great album, it really doesn't have anything original over Blizzard. The overall feel and song types on Ozzy's first 2 solo albums is extremely similar. Whereas BATM has a different sound and some different type of tunes compared to Blizzard.

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    • #32
      Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -responses

      DOAM. Randy Rhoads is so awsom on it.

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      • #33
        Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -responses

        Great discussion!

        Here's my take on a couple things, if you'll be so kind as to indulge an opinionated fool...

        Diary and Bark were both LARGELY written by Bob Daisley, so from a songwriting stance, they're both solid. Of course, the credits on Bark say everything was written by Ozzy, this was a financial move on his part. I have an old Circus or Hit Parader interview w Bob that glosses over it, he said he was brought in for writing on Bark but wouldn't comment on why he has no credits. Of course, he did stay on to play on it as well, as Rudy had gone back to QR after the Ozzy tour w Brad Gillis was over.

        Bob and Lee sued Ozzy over technicals and royalties owed from those first albums. I'm sure this is exhaustively documented elsewhere, so I won't bore you with it here (I know, too late!). In order to circumvent ever having to pay them again, Ozzy and Sharon (and probably a football team of lawyers) decided that their tracks should be re-recorded in those last reissues. Bob later responded by re-recording some of his compositions himself, with PROPER credits I'm sure!

        Besides the fact that this (redoing the bass and drum tracks) is SCREWING WITH HISTORY, these butchered reissues also leave a glaring defect - The original tracks were recorded onto 2" tape (analog), and the re-done tracks were recorded on ADATs (digital). So there's a markedly different cadence to the recordings as compared to the originals - IMHO, Randy's tracks now sound almost muddy when put over the coldly recorded ADAT backing tracks.

        So not only is there a moralistic point to getting the Bob/Lee versions, but an audible one as well.

        All the best,
        PAULIE
        http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

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        • #34
          Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

          Quote: he said he was brought in for writing on Bark but wouldn't comment on why he has no credits.
          Daisley was a "paid employee" on all recordings and writings he did past Diary. In Blizzard & Diary, he was a "band member", hence that long standing lawsuit.

          However, I bought Bark when it was new originally, I could have sworn he had songwriting credits. I'd have to look it up on my original print.

          I just looked, I don't have my original 1983 version anymore, but the oldest version I do have has Daisley listed as a co-producer as well as the bass player. All songs credited solely to Ozzy, which is of course a laugh. I'm sure it's all part of the myth, and since all albums "post Diary" (I believe) had band members paid for what they did. "Here's $5000 for your song credit, since we bought it, we'll credit it how we want". I made up that number of course, but that's my guess as to what happened.

          That's also why Daisley's recordings were untouched on recordings after Blizzard and Diary. Daisley himself has said he was not owed royalties on them, since he was paid off at the time for the work, and he knew that going in. Why he kept going back for more is an unknown to me, though.


          Although Zakk has been around for a long time, I wonder if he has the same "paid for the work", not a band member royalty kind of thing.
          Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
          View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

          "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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          • #35
            Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

            Joe, thank you for the comprehensive response! I understand exactly what you meant by all of it. I had wondered if maybe this was partially in response to Randy's death - Brad Gillis was offered to stay on as a full band member, but he wanted to get Night Ranger off the ground. After a pause and turnaround in the bass dept. as well, it went to the "hired gun" scenario.

            I'm not a huge Zakk fan, but I do respect him as a player. In listening to an interview, he was asked why he's always on the go, the multiple solo albums, constant relentless touring when he's not out w Ozzy, etc. His answer was "my family likes to eat" etc. meaning that he needs the cash. (His answer was longer than that, but I don't want to misquote - He did elaborate that it's about the $.) I would be shocked if any of Ozzy's band gets paid more than the union rate, their real "pay" is the notoriety of being part of Ozzy's band (though they kinda aren't!). Now if ZAKK is saying he does the extra work for the pay, now THAT is saying something - You'd think he'd be the highest paid of all, having the longest tenure and public respect etc.

            Sorry if this is too off topic!

            All the best,
            PAULIE
            http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

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            • #36
              Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

              I would find it hard to believe if someone said Zakk was not doing well financially. Maiden got paid 80,000 for Ozzfest 05. Zakk's been doing that since the first one. Plus he has been in Ozzy's band since 1988 and doing tours with him.
              "I want to tell you, yeah
              How Good It Feels
              Sleeping here with you tonight
              And thatís for real"
              -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                Originally Posted By: Psycho Man I would find it hard to believe if someone said Zakk was not doing well financially. Maiden got paid 80,000 for Ozzfest 05. Zakk's been doing that since the first one. Plus he has been in Ozzy's band since 1988 and doing tours with him.
                Exactly!!! So for him to say HIMSELF that he does the other albums and touring for the money, I think that speaks directly to what we were driving at, that Ozzy's handler keeps people on the cheap. Maiden can do headlining tours in major venues on their own, and in fact they do, so it's no surprise that they can pull down big dollars. 80,000 is small potatoes to Maiden, they can surpass that on just a few of their own gigs.

                Not to be argumentative, really, but I do enjoy the topic - Perhaps we should start a new thread? Joe, thoughts?

                Best, PAULIE
                http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                  Originally Posted By: Psycho Man I would find it hard to believe if someone said Zakk was not doing well financially. Maiden got paid 80,000 for Ozzfest 05. Zakk's been doing that since the first one. Plus he has been in Ozzy's band since 1988 and doing tours with him.
                  Really when you look at all the tours and albums he did with Ozzy, its not very much. In 18 years, he did 4 albums, and a handful of tours. From the mid 90s to early 2000s, Joe Holmes took over on guitar on Ozzys shows.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                    Quote: So for him to say HIMSELF that he does the other albums and touring for the money,
                    you sure he wasn't kidding around?
                    "I want to tell you, yeah
                    How Good It Feels
                    Sleeping here with you tonight
                    And thatís for real"
                    -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                      Originally Posted By: Psycho Man
                      Quote: So for him to say HIMSELF that he does the other albums and touring for the money,
                      you sure he wasn't kidding around?
                      I'm certain he wasn't kidding when he said he was keeping up the relentless pace because of money, I'd put money on it! (haw haw!)
                      It wasn't said in a negative way like he's broke or starving or anything, though if I was doing the interview, I'd certainly have followed up with "Isn't Ozzy's camp paying you a living wage?"
                      I'm not a Zakk expert, and I've not been an Ozzy fan for many years, but yep, this is what I understand to be the situation... I don't want for anyone to think that I'm trying to say that my words are indisputable fact, and that's not what I'm trying to say that it is, but I do believe that this IS in fact the case (i.e. the fact that Ozzy (nee, Sharon) pays very little to his band etc.).

                      All the best, PAULIE
                      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UoulA6r90n...ill%2Bward.JPG

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                        Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler
                        Quote: he said he was brought in for writing on Bark but wouldn't comment on why he has no credits.
                        Daisley was a "paid employee" on all recordings and writings he did past Diary. In Blizzard & Diary, he was a "band member", hence that long standing lawsuit.

                        However, I bought Bark when it was new originally, I could have sworn he had songwriting credits. I'd have to look it up on my original print.

                        I just looked, I don't have my original 1983 version anymore, but the oldest version I do have has Daisley listed as a co-producer as well as the bass player. All songs credited solely to Ozzy, which is of course a laugh. I'm sure it's all part of the myth, and since all albums "post Diary" (I believe) had band members paid for what they did. "Here's $5000 for your song credit, since we bought it, we'll credit it how we want". I made up that number of course, but that's my guess as to what happened.

                        That's also why Daisley's recordings were untouched on recordings after Blizzard and Diary. Daisley himself has said he was not owed royalties on them, since he was paid off at the time for the work, and he knew that going in. Why he kept going back for more is an unknown to me, though.

                        This is exactly right. It also has to do with the fact that Sharon's dad Don and her brother were managing Ozzy at the time. Not her. When Sharon took over in 82 she had promised Bob that he and Lee would be paid for their work on Diary and Blizzard. There was some fishy stuff and she kept making promises. Initially they did get a payout in 1985 but nothing was fixed as it turned out Sharon now owned all of the rights and had been lying about it to Bob and Lee. In the meantime, in order to speed things along with the legalities, I believe Bob accepted the "hired gun" status. This also has to do with the fact that at the time, he was in Uriah Heep and that wasn't going so well financially. Lee encouraged him to join Ozzy's band as long as he knew he would get paid up front. Then Uriah Heep got Trevor Boulder back and Lee and Bob remained friends ever since.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon -resp

                          Originally Posted By: Petoria000
                          Originally Posted By: Psycho Man I would find it hard to believe if someone said Zakk was not doing well financially. Maiden got paid 80,000 for Ozzfest 05. Zakk's been doing that since the first one. Plus he has been in Ozzy's band since 1988 and doing tours with him.
                          Really when you look at all the tours and albums he did with Ozzy, its not very much. In 18 years, he did 4 albums, and a handful of tours. From the mid 90s to early 2000s, Joe Holmes took over on guitar on Ozzys shows.
                          I think Maiden was actually paid 180,000 a night to be on Ozzfest. I have no idea what Zakk makes. I'm sure he's well off though.

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