Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What is the Difference

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is the Difference

    If Dio did not join up with Black Sabbath and Ozzy stayed with the band what songs would they write or make a good album
    I am the God of the sky and if anyone who gets in my way i will throw a bolt of Lightning

  • #2
    Ozzy needed Sharon to sort out his addictions. If he'd stayed with the band, he wouldn't have met her, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

    Geezer wrote the lyrics to "Neon Knights" by himself, without Dio, if that's any indication for you though.
    http://theramblingelf.tumblr.com/ - my Tumblog (music reviews galore!)
    http://twitter.com/TheRamblingElf - my Twitter
    http://www.facebook.com/rwarrell - my Facebook

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TheElfoid View Post
      Ozzy needed Sharon to sort out his addictions. If he'd stayed with the band, he wouldn't have met her, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

      Geezer wrote the lyrics to "Neon Knights" by himself, without Dio, if that's any indication for you though.
      Did Geezer really write the lyrics to Neon Knights? They sound very Dionesque to me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JohnFa View Post
        Did Geezer really write the lyrics to Neon Knights? They sound very Dionesque to me.
        After a little research I can tell you I made a mistake - Dio WAS involved in the lyrics for that song. However it's the only one on the album that Geezer wrote lyrics for, and I believe from memory it was more Geezer's song than Dio's. It was the one he wrote with Iommi when he came back to the band after quitting for a while.

        Since Iommi wrote the new songs for Dio Years with Dio and no one else, and the new songs for Reunion with Ozzy and no one else, I'm starting to think Iommi sees songwriting as a bridge-builder.
        http://theramblingelf.tumblr.com/ - my Tumblog (music reviews galore!)
        http://twitter.com/TheRamblingElf - my Twitter
        http://www.facebook.com/rwarrell - my Facebook

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd imagine it would of been something like TE and NSD but worse, They needed to break away from him and needed a strong leader like Dio.

          Comment


          • #6
            I know that if Ozzy had stayed, the next album would have still been called "Heaven and Hell" and some material for it was already written. I think that the new album was going to be heavier regardless of who the singer was. It would have been interesting, thats for sure!
            Damian
            Super Moderator
            Black-Sabbath.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Damian View Post
              I know that if Ozzy had stayed, the next album would have still been called "Heaven and Hell"
              How do you know that? I thought the name came from RJD. He said in an interview that he had always wanted to write a song/album called Heaven And Hell.
              Don't care which God you follow, whose promises you swallow.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, he did help write the SONG, so he is correct, but I believe the working title of the album was always Heaven and Hell, even before Ozzy was fired. Of course, when researching I've come across statements like "The rest of the band began work on Heaven and Hell without Ozzy", but that could also mean they worked on what would BECOME Heaven and Hell, too. This is another one for Gardener, who probably has forgotten more about this period then I will ever learn.
                Last edited by Damian; 11-03-2008, 01:51 PM.
                Damian
                Super Moderator
                Black-Sabbath.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheElfoid View Post
                  Ozzy needed Sharon to sort out his addictions. If he'd stayed with the band, he wouldn't have met her, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

                  Geezer wrote the lyrics to "Neon Knights" by himself, without Dio, if that's any indication for you though.
                  Ozzy knew Sharon prior to leaving Sabbath. Before managing Ozzy she workled for her father Don who managed Sabbath in the late 70's to the Ian Gillan era (If I'm not mistaken).


                  I believe as I said elsewhere here today that Tony had evolved by 79/80 and was over his whole progressive rock phase. I hadn't thought about it until just now but I can imagine what an eye opener it was for him to play with the very young & energetic Van Halen on their first world tour. It had to be some pretty stiff competition to say the least.

                  I believe Tony would have written a song like Die Young, and Heaven & Hell with whomever was in the band at the time. I think he knew he needed to get back to straight ahead rock, and I think he was hungry. They wouldn't sound identical to the album versions we know. But I believe the main riffs to both tracks were probably Tony's. I also have a feeling Walk Away & Wishing Well would have figured in there somehow. I can imagine Ozzy singing all 4 of those songs in fact. They would have been quite different lyrically however. I wonder since Geezer and Bill both had some sort of breakdown around that time themselves what would have happened to Sabbath. Would Bob Daisley & Keslake have been brought in?

                  The other thing to consider is that Martin Birch was brought in to produce thanks to Dio. So the album wouldn't have sounded anything like the H&H we all know. Perhaps Max Norman would have been utilized and we'd have an album sonicly closer to Blizzard in certain ways. It's an interesting thought.
                  The best blueberry muffins I ever had landed 6 people in prison, three for life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by God of Thunder View Post
                    If Dio did not join up with Black Sabbath and Ozzy stayed with the band what songs would they write or make a good album
                    I don't think there would have been an album, nor a band. Black Sabbath were barely sputtering on fumes by 1979. They were suffering severe substance abuse problems, particularly Ozzy and Bill. Tony was getting exasperated with Ozzy's behaviour and frustrated at Ozzy's voice limiting the music he could write.

                    I also don't think Ozzy would be with us today if the split hadn't happened. He was on hot rails to hell (thanks to BOC) at this time. His father had died, and his first marriage was going bad. Depression and booze/drugs are a lethal mix. Say what you will about Sharon Arden Osbourne, and I've said plenty, but she probably saved his life. Ozzy once said "leaving that band was the best amputation I've ever had," and though I'm a much bigger fan of the Dio-and-after eras, I agree. They needed to be away from one another.

                    Relationships run their course, and the Ozzy/Iommi one had definitely done so. It was for the best. Sabbath soldiered on with RJD, and Ozzy found Randy Rhoads. I wouldn't have had it otherwise.
                    He is not here. He has risen!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Damian View Post
                      I know that if Ozzy had stayed, the next album would have still been called "Heaven and Hell" and some material for it was already written. I think that the new album was going to be heavier regardless of who the singer was. It would have been interesting, thats for sure!

                      Interesting ! I think it would have been interesting also, but never say die was flop? I mean how high on the billboard charts was Never Say Die!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I belive if Ronnie didn't join Sabbath and Ozzy stayed, we would be here taling about how great they were in 1970-76 and how doped out until about 1983 when some of the memebers probally would have died from excess. As sated before Sharon saved Ozzy from himself and the other three orginal members had to go throught the Ozzy breakup the Ronnie problems to get on the sober and clean bandwagon. As for as songs from the latter years of a 1980-83 Ozzy era they woudl have been worse than TE and NSD. Answer this question would anyone want to see a show with Ozzy falling over the stage from doing too many 8-balls before the show? Tony and Gezzer blowing there noses aftereach song from doing to much blow and Bill passed out in a pile of puke from too much booze?!?!?! This is not a pretty picture I have painted but I do belive it is close to what reality whould have been.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If Ozzy had stayed with Sabbath he would have died period. If Dio hadn't joined he may have joined another band or his solo career would have started earlier than 1983
                          "Just remember love is life and hate is living death" - A National Acrobat

                          http://flummoxed.bandcamp.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TheElfoid View Post
                            After a little research I can tell you I made a mistake - Dio WAS involved in the lyrics for that song. However it's the only one on the album that Geezer wrote lyrics for, and I believe from memory it was more Geezer's song than Dio's. It was the one he wrote with Iommi when he came back to the band after quitting for a while.

                            Since Iommi wrote the new songs for Dio Years with Dio and no one else, and the new songs for Reunion with Ozzy and no one else, I'm starting to think Iommi sees songwriting as a bridge-builder.

                            Unfortunatly , that piece of information is totally incorrect , Neon Knights lyrics was written completely by RJD (quite obvious from the lyrical content) , it was the last song written for this classic album and the ONLY song that was written after Geezer re-joined the band ...

                            The Heaven & Hell title wasnt proposed before RJD joined the band , not at all , there were early demos of the songs Children of the sea and Die young with Ozzy on vocals , RJD says that he wanted to write this song a long time ago ( shooting back at those rumours and accusations claiming that Ozzy had worked some lines previously before he joined in) , he says that used to tour along time ago with a band called Easybeats , the band which is one of RJD's all time favorite consisted of Harry Vanda and George Young ( Angus Young brother) had song title named 'Heaven & Hell' which Dio says he borrowed the title from ( same goes to the Sign of the Southern cross title!)

                            The only songs that were conceptually Geezer Butler's idea were Computer God and Master of Insanity ( you can check the early demos for GZR band)...
                            cheers !

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by geezer View Post
                              If Ozzy had stayed with Sabbath he would have died period. If Dio hadn't joined he may have joined another band or his solo career would have started earlier than 1983
                              Ozzy and Sabbath splitting was necessary for both parties.

                              The Sabs had got stale. Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! certainly had their moments, but they were more vehicles for Tony Iommi's experimentation than actual band projects.

                              I agree that if Ozzy had stayed in Sabbath, he would probably be dead now. None of us want that. Iommi, Butler and Ward probably would have dropped off the radar screen as "has-beens," and chances are that Ward may have succumbed to his addictions.

                              As for Dio...he may well have started his solo career early but I think he would have had to start that in Europe, since Rainbow were not nearly as well-known here in the States as they were there. I can't think of an existing band he would have joined. However, he may have done something more permanent with Kerry Livgren. He said that he considered that after leaving Sabbath in '82 and that he and Livgren had actually spoken about it (Kansas were falling apart at this time). However, I think that Livgren's Christianity and Dio's agnosticism would have clashed eventually.
                              He is not here. He has risen!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X